Systemic problems require systemic solutions. This is a systemic problem and there is no utility in attempting to publicly shame individuals who benefit from it. Registering disapproval is fine and arguably necessary if FFG is to be moved, but attacking the folks who chose to abstain from playing does not need to and should not be part of that.

I mean apparently this makes me a horrible person but I go to a tournament to win it not to just play xwing and have a good time. The former I can do without tournaments and the latter I always have playing xwing. I wouldn't cheat but I would certainly take a guaranteed top 8 placement if the rules allowed it and anyone who wouldn't can make that decision as it comes up to them. Calling these players scummy or in one strange case comparing it to war crimes seems exceptionally out of line and uncalled for.

I agree we shouldn't be calling players names or shaming them. As long as it's a rule, it's going to be used. What I DON'T think is that it should be a rule in the first place. I understand being at tournaments to win. I wanna win when Im' at a tournament too. But I want to win by actually beating all of my opponents. Skipping a game and guaranteeing you make the cut when you might have lost out if you'd lost the game isn't the same thing. From what I've heard, the guy who won the hoth open wouldn't hvae made the cut if one more game had taken the ID. Does anyone wanna try to say that he WASN'T the best player there after winning?

I hate the idea of IDs. your here to play tournament, to test your metal, taking a ID on the last round so you can get in and alter the draw for the cut is a real **** thing to do.

when they came up with the ID rule the should have also put in a rule that says when standings are posted you cant post players MOV. only the match ups should be posted this will make it harder to ID as you don't know if you will still get in the cut or not

posting the standings can let a group of friends work out if we all ID were are in and that sends me bat **** crazy

Can't be surprised that gamers take advantage of rules. It's what we do.

But it's still sleazy. And those calling them out for it are perfectly justified.

If it was a deliberate act to provoke FFG into amending the rule than it needs to be explicitly stated. And those involved takexa pass on any tangible benefits to the act of civil disobedience.

Wow. I can't believe the comments in here blaming the players and the TOs. The rules are so incredibly vague on the TO not allowing the draw that it's absurd to blame this person. Making it even more absurd is the fact that it was ALREADY ALLOWED BY FFG at the Hoth Open. It's ABUNDANTLY clear that this was exactly what the rule was implemented to allow: reserving your spot in the cut. So we should very quickly stop talking about collusion, the matter is closed.

And blaming the players? Calling them cowards as someone did? Seriously, wtf is that....

I would like to see the rule rescinded. But that's on FFG, end of story.

I quote the rules. which part of "Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden." is vage? The intentional draw rules directly refer to that "The leader will not intervene as long as players follow the “Unsporting Conduct” on page 3." There is nothing vague about it, and if FFG ****** this up in on of their own tourneys than shame on them.

Update: the number 9 player going into the final round won, and had 8 other people not decided before the tournament ended that he didn't deserve it, he would have been the 6th seed.

Kenneth Crone, I'm sorry for what FFG did to you today.

I hate the idea of IDs. your here to play tournament, to test your metal, taking a ID on the last round so you can get in and alter the draw for the cut is a real **** thing to do.

when they came up with the ID rule the should have also put in a rule that says when standings are posted you cant post players MOV. only the match ups should be posted this will make it harder to ID as you don't know if you will still get in the cut or not

posting the standings can let a group of friends work out if we all ID were are in and that sends me bat **** crazy

MOV would not have matter in this case.

i'm bringing a hammer at my regionals, it's use i leave to your imagination.

its a dice game why would you not take a hammer

Wow. I can't believe the comments in here blaming the players and the TOs. The rules are so incredibly vague on the TO not allowing the draw that it's absurd to blame this person. Making it even more absurd is the fact that it was ALREADY ALLOWED BY FFG at the Hoth Open. It's ABUNDANTLY clear that this was exactly what the rule was implemented to allow: reserving your spot in the cut. So we should very quickly stop talking about collusion, the matter is closed.

And blaming the players? Calling them cowards as someone did? Seriously, wtf is that....

I would like to see the rule rescinded. But that's on FFG, end of story.

I quote the rules. which part of "Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden." is vage? The intentional draw rules directly refer to that "The leader will not intervene as long as players follow the “Unsporting Conduct” on page 3." There is nothing vague about it, and if FFG ****** this up in on of their own tourneys than shame on them.

Quote them all you want. Then use some logic and think about if FFG meant for this kind of thing to be allowed. Obviously, they did and just haven't made that clear enough in writing. That is what is vague, that someone can call this collusion even when it's been demonstrated at an FFG run event that it's allowed.

Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden.

The ID's the TO permitted the players to collude on, in this regional, manipulated the scoring of the final round of SWISS. Which then influenced the final top 8 results.

It should not have been allowed in my interpretation of the rules.

Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden.

The ID's the TO permitted the players to collude on, in this regional, manipulated the scoring of the final round of SWISS. Which then influenced the final top 8 results.

It should not have been allowed in my interpretation of the rules.

You honestly think that FFG did not intend for players to take IDs to ensure themselves a spot in the cut when a loss would have put them out? And that they messed up/forgot it was against the rules at the Hoth Open when their own Organized Play people were running the event? Do you actually believe all that?

You're litterally arguing that TOs overrule what FFG has explicitly allowed. That isn't a rational stance to take on the subject.

I've never played a tournament, so could someone tell me what he's talking about?

You're litterally arguing that TOs overrule what FFG has explicitly allowed. That isn't a rational stance to take on the subject.

Well, I'd argue the top two were fair enough, but as seeds 4-8 were potentially vulnerable, allowing them to auto qualify in my opinion "damages the integrity of the tournament".

Unless FFG clarify that, I think disputing those rulings is perfectly valid.

Play to win. If you don't want to play go home.

You're litterally arguing that TOs overrule what FFG has explicitly allowed. That isn't a rational stance to take on the subject.

TO's are definitely allowed to do that.

You're litterally arguing that TOs overrule what FFG has explicitly allowed. That isn't a rational stance to take on the subject.

Well, I'd argue the top two were fair enough, but as seeds 4-8 were potentially vulnerable, allowing them to auto qualify in my opinion "damages the integrity of the tournament".

Unless FFG clarify that, I think disputing those rulings is perfectly valid.

You're litterally arguing that TOs overrule what FFG has explicitly allowed. That isn't a rational stance to take on the subject.

Well, I'd argue the top two were fair enough, but as seeds 4-8 were potentially vulnerable, allowing them to auto qualify in my opinion "damages the integrity of the tournament".

Unless FFG clarify that, I think disputing those rulings is perfectly valid.

Again, as has been pointed out, FFG themselves allowed IDs in that exact type of situation. It isn't as if this is untrodden ground.

"I was just following orders" and "I did it because they did it"

Are both not good enough for me.

There is such a thing as the "Law of Unintended Consequences". What FFG had in mind for the ID rule we won't know until FFG explains it. And as mentioned elsewhere, as players we take advantage of rules because that's what we do. Just like putting 3 Tacticians on the YV-666 before they were reclassified as LIMITED.

Don't blame the players because they followed the rules. Don't blame the TO for following the rules. Don't blame FFG because we, as players, found a loophole. As players we outnumber the designers by a wide margin and some of us have truly imaginative and evil minds and come up with stuff that the designers would never think of.

Everyone take a deep breath, relax and be assured that this will be corrected. FFG wouldn't intentionally destroy the game we love.

I hope this whole thing just leads to every major tournament cutting out the extra round of Swiss that obviously isn't needed. I would love to go home earlier after tournaments.

Stop being jerks and blaming the players.

My last 2 tourneys, X-Wing store championship I came 5th, I played in an Armada one today and came 3rd, if any of my opponents would have turned around and asked for an ID I would tell them where to go.

For me if I go to a tourney I will go there to fight my hardest, not to sit there twiddling my thumbs, I win I win, I lose I lose, simple as that.

Just because its allowed does not make it morally wrong, saddened to see Paul Heaver in the top 8 of Roanoake do that

My last 2 tourneys, X-Wing store championship I came 5th, I played in an Armada one today and came 3rd, if any of my opponents would have turned around and asked for an ID I would tell them where to go.

For me if I go to a tourney I will go there to fight my hardest, not to sit there twiddling my thumbs, I win I win, I lose I lose, simple as that.

Just because its allowed does not make it morally wrong, saddened to see Paul Heaver in the top 8 of Roanoake do that

In fairness to Paul, he could've lost round 6 0-100 and still have made top 8.

I don't mind it. If you need someone else to lose to make it it's out of your hands anyway. You were never truly in control of the situation and you can't complain that it didn't go your way.

If you don't want someone above you to get in because of an ID, win all your games. Once you lose games, especially more than one, things are goig to have to go your way.

I don't mind it. If you need someone else to lose to make it it's out of your hands anyway. You were never truly in control of the situation and you can't complain that it didn't go your way.

If you don't want someone above you to get in because of an ID, win all your games. Once you lose games, especially more than one, things are goig to have to go your way.

There is a larger matter to consider here than that one individual who is affected. Stuff like this will make people think twice about going to tournaments and ultimately that hurts the game we all love.