I am saying that the caricature you created with your post does not exit.

As Sithborg pointed out... Yes they do, we've seen them here more than once.

He's no longer around here, but we actually had someone say they'd commit physical assault if their concept of 'fly casual' and the spirit of the game was violated.

You just created a group of players out of a single incident, correct? ;-)

Stereotyping large parts of the community based on an extreme arsehole and mental disturbed guy?

As I said, this kind of behavior is for sure effective.

I am saying that the caricature you created with your post does not exit.

As Sithborg pointed out... Yes they do, we've seen them here more than once.

He's no longer around here, but we actually had someone say they'd commit physical assault if their concept of 'fly casual' and the spirit of the game was violated.

You just created a group of players out of a single incident, correct? ;-)

Stereotyping large parts of the community based on an extreme arsehole and mental disturbed guy?

As I said, this kind of behavior is for sure effective.

No, it is based on 11 years of serious gaming. The militant casual is merely the other side of the WAAC coin.

You just created a group of players out of a single incident, correct? ;-)

No, I just used an example of someone at the extreme, but he's hardly the first, last or only person to demonstrate that type of attitude.

Others haven't taken it to that extreme but that doesn't mean there aren't a number of people out there who take Fly Casual and use it as a weapon to beat others up with because they are morally superior to them. We call them Militant Casual and there are more than a few of them around here.

People who have behaved perhaps not to the extreme of others, but not far from it.

I am saying that the caricature you created with your post does not exit.

As Sithborg pointed out... Yes they do, we've seen them here more than once.

He's no longer around here, but we actually had someone say they'd commit physical assault if their concept of 'fly casual' and the spirit of the game was violated.

You just created a group of players out of a single incident, correct? ;-)

Stereotyping large parts of the community based on an extreme arsehole and mental disturbed guy?

As I said, this kind of behavior is for sure effective.

No, it is based on 11 years of serious gaming. The militant casual is merely the other side of the WAAC coin.

If you believe extremes represent the whole, then you side with crazy idiots like Donald Trump who think America should ban all Muslims based on the actions of a few terrorists who happened to be Muslim.

There. Getting politics and religion into it ought to get this thread locked finally.

Yes. And it is in now way an accurate representation of Fly Casual as a community movement as a whole, just as WAAC players are not an accurate representation of competitive players.

But that doesn't mean there aren't people out there like that, which was what was claimed. That no such person actually exists, but they in fact do.

Ahh yes here we have the classic example of the poor WaaC player under fire from the militant casual, see the terror on his face as he's asked to let them take an action they forgot.

For just £3 a month we can build a shelter for these poor souls, never again will their feefees be hurt when someone asks them to fly casual.

In all seriousness, the amount of fury over this topic absolutely blows my mind. I guess it's just because I have played other games before X-Wing that IDs don't seem to be a big deal to me. If you don't like them, just don't take them! If you don't want to miss top 8 of a tournament, don't take enough losses to miss!

Every person that says "oh, this is bad" but takes it is a self serving jerk.

Saying "I don't like it but the rules permit it" makes you a double ****** IMO.

all I see is a bunch of quitters and cowards.

"Don't blame me, FFG says I can do it" is somewhat akin to a Nuremberg Defence, as I see it.

Well, there's Godwins Law proved at least.

in instances like this being competitive translates as being a ****.

i'm bringing a hammer at my regionals, it's use i leave to your imagination.

Each of those players should have been disqualified for collusion. Frankly, anybody defending the inclusion of the ID is one of those WAAC types who are generally douchecanoes.Is it legal? Yes. It's still a ****** move, and it makes you a ****** for defending it.Who obviously must rely on f***ing over better players because they don't want to have to rely on their skill or dice to ensure their top 8.

the top 8 need to be banned for a year to set an example.

soo...how has this thread not been locked yet?

Because FFG moderates this forum as about as frequently as they preview upcoming releases.

his strategy wasnt valid, by consenting to an action (verbally or not) and then objecting ONLY when the action became advantageous in the game is a ****** move.

What he did is legal, and completely allowed. A lot of us have 3 strike policies, where we'll let something slide 3 times and after that you're not going to get any more chances to fix a mistake.

The rules are quite clear yet many people really don't get them. It is completely and totally at the discretion of the other player if someone can fix a missed opportunity or not. There is no rule that states once you allow it, you must keep allowing it.

Whether it's good sportsmanship or not doesn't change the rules, and also doesn't change if the strategy is valid or not.

The situation in question was not a 3 strike policy. A 3 strike policy is "Hey, you forgot to do that action, but I'll let you do it this time, just don't forget next time". Or "The rules say you have to move your ships and take the actions 1 at a time, not move them all then assign all the tokens". Then if they keep doing it, you don't let them. It is NOT allowing them to do it until it's beneficial to you then calling them out specifically to get an advantage. Personally, if someone did that to me, I'd absolutely be calling a TO over and claiming prior consent. And as a TO, I would absolutely say that prior consent (even nonverbal) means you don't get to just change your mind when it becomes convenient. You can tell them you're removing consent and they don't get it in future turns, but not until *after* they've been told so, and I'd let em have it for the round in quesiton.

FFG should send a message to the players given their status in the community that such behavior won't be tolerated by banning them from Nationals play.

it is another nail in the coffin of Fly Casual.

I again state that those supporting the ID are nothing but WAAC douchenozzles who would as soon as call for your disqualification over a paintjob as play against you because they'd rather exploit poorly thought out rules than trust in their skill.

If I see you do it at the Atlanta Regional, I WILL call you a coward

If you're exploiting a rule to gain an advantage, you're a bad person and a bad gamer.

#pheaverkilledflycasual

Right. Maybe an older character would be better. How about Narcissus?

"I didn't realize Nathan had digressed from becoming a better person"

You slam that kid hothie!

"They disrespected the ... integrity of the game itself

Because everyone just let it go when lance Armstrong was caught doping, or when Michael vick was caught dog fighting.

When you're a big name in something you're in the spot light and have to bare that in mind when you act.

People are always disappointed to find their heroes have feet of clay.

In all seriousness, the amount of fury over this topic absolutely blows my mind. I guess it's just because I have played other games before X-Wing that IDs don't seem to be a big deal to me. If you don't like them, just don't take them! If you don't want to miss top 8 of a tournament, don't take enough losses to miss!

The irony is that the people taking ID to secure their place when they could have missed out didn't acgually do that. They used the ID loophole, they didn't actually win enough games to secure the place themselves.

ID adds almost nothing to this game. MTG can do one. As has been said that is a game that does have a lot of drawz. Including the likely hundreds of games I've watched online, I've seen perhaps 3 draws from natural play.

I really don't see any solid argume t j. Favour of them or any substantial example of what they bring to the game to warrant their downsides. The excellent article about MTG and the draw system there was very good. They don't much like it but they have it as it's needed. Why do we need them?

Let's not turn this thread into a battle of strawmen, people.

As for ParaGoomba being ParaGoomba (which somehow has become the subject of an intentional draws thread), the player in that situation is in all rights to call the TO over to complain if he believes it's unfair, and the TO will rule on it. What the internet thinks has no bearing on it.

Personally, I don't think it's worth making people think you're a **** over a plastic miniatures game, but no matter how douchebaggy we think it is remember that the TO is the highest authority, not the community forum.

his strategy wasnt valid, by consenting to an action (verbally or not) and then objecting ONLY when the action became advantageous in the game is a ****** move.

What he did is legal, and completely allowed. A lot of us have 3 strike policies, where we'll let something slide 3 times and after that you're not going to get any more chances to fix a mistake.

The rules are quite clear yet many people really don't get them. It is completely and totally at the discretion of the other player if someone can fix a missed opportunity or not. There is no rule that states once you allow it, you must keep allowing it.

Whether it's good sportsmanship or not doesn't change the rules, and also doesn't change if the strategy is valid or not.

I agree that someone should ask if something is ok before doing it, (andin Majorjugglers case, he didn't if I recall) but after that... if there is no protest then it should be assumed that it is fine with the other player.

I really don't see any solid argume t j. Favour of them or any substantial example of what they bring to the game to warrant their downsides. The excellent article about MTG and the draw system there was very good. They don't much like it but they have it as it's needed. Why do we need them?

Ned Flanders says best what they contribute.

It's a thermal exhaust port sized cockup from FFG.

Said no one ever.

Are you kidding? It's been said a lot around here. I doubt we go more then a month or two where someone doesn't effectively say just that.

That if you don't fly by their unwritten rules, and according to what they consider to be the spirit of the game, you're a bad person if not worse.

Last event I was at I got called an ******* for denying a shot with a PS 8 when my opponent fired with his PS 7 first. My opponent took it well, but someone I consider a friend who had the bye and was observing the game said that I was being an *******, that what I was doing was sh*tty, and that he hoped karma catches up to me.

All in the name of flying casually. I like the guy, he's one of my favorite opponents. But now I have to deal with this hostile atmosphere.

I can't seriously pretend to be offended, but I'd rather play the game in a polite atmosphere with friends. I don't expect him to allow me missed triggers.

The irony is that the people taking ID to secure their place when they could have missed out didn't acgually do that. They used the ID loophole, they didn't actually win enough games to secure the place themselves.\

1. No one has an exact reason IDs were introduced into X-wing and what the intent and hope was for their inclusion. Barring an explicit statement from FFG about them, the above is conjecture.

2. With respect to #1 above, the Hoth Open draw was a clear precedent. While the judges were not FFG OP employees, FFG OP was there and consulted on several rulings (for example, it was their decision that everyone use the same dice).

At least to me then, it seems that FFGs intent is actually to allow draws that secure their place.

Said no one ever.

Are you kidding? It's been said a lot around here. I doubt we go more then a month or two where someone doesn't effectively say just that.

That if you don't fly by their unwritten rules, and according to what they consider to be the spirit of the game, you're a bad person if not worse.

Last event I was at I got called an ******* for denying a shot with a PS 8 when my opponent fired with his PS 7 first. My opponent took it well, but someone I consider a friend who had the bye and was observing the game said that I was being an *******, that what I was doing was sh*tty, and that he hoped karma catches up to me.

All in the name of flying casually. I like the guy, he's one of my favorite opponents. But now I have to deal with this hostile atmosphere.

I can't seriously pretend to be offended, but I'd rather play the game in a polite atmosphere with friends. I don't expect him to allow me missed triggers.

When you outright cheat, as you've admitted to in the past, and make dishonest standards part of your general play people are eventually going to call you exactly what you are acting like.

I moved with my Alphas at PS 1.

He moved his PS 2 Palpshuttle.

Then he moved all of his PS 4 ships at the same time.

Then Omega Leader.

Forgot if he went on to move Omega Leader and then tried to put focuses down on his 3 PS 4's thereby missing his opportunities for actions with all of his PS 4 ships, or if he went to focus with all his PS 4's before moving Omega Leader and only skipping 2 actions.

Either way, wasted a free Crack Squadron/Wampa, and since he had no focuses he didn't kill an Interceptor. He rolled plenty of focus results, haha.

Everything was moved in proper PS order, he just skipped a bunch of action opportunities and I used it to get an easy win.

Out of curiosity, is this the "MajorJuggler incident" (if I may jump on the bandwagon of coming up with catchy names for these things) that was discussed so much after the recent Nova Squadron podcast? The one where the TO ultimately ruled in such a way that ships didn't move?

No. But Paragoomba championed that situation.

I believe that I said MJ's WAAC opponent was wrong, and that the TO's StopWing ruling was ridiculous.

The irony is that the people taking ID to secure their place when they could have missed out didn't acgually do that. They used the ID loophole, they didn't actually win enough games to secure the place themselves.\

1. No one has an exact reason IDs were introduced into X-wing and what the intent and hope was for their inclusion. Barring an explicit statement from FFG about them, the above is conjecture.

2. With respect to #1 above, the Hoth Open draw was a clear precedent. While the judges were not FFG OP employees, FFG OP was there and consulted on several rulings (for example, it was their decision that everyone use the same dice).

At least to me then, it seems that FFGs intent is actually to allow draws that secure their place.

I get that and I did say earlier in the thread, as much as I dislike it myself, I have no issues with the people that took the ID or the TO that ok'd them.

I'm just waiting for someone to enlighten me as to what benefits there may actually be. Waiting for FFG to comment in herebis an exercise in futility as it's not how they roll, so I'm asking the community. I doubt I have but it's always possible I've missed something to justify them.

I moved with my Alphas at PS 1.

He moved his PS 2 Palpshuttle.

Then he moved all of his PS 4 ships at the same time.

Then Omega Leader.

Forgot if he went on to move Omega Leader and then tried to put focuses down on his 3 PS 4's thereby missing his opportunities for actions with all of his PS 4 ships, or if he went to focus with all his PS 4's before moving Omega Leader and only skipping 2 actions.

Either way, wasted a free Crack Squadron/Wampa, and since he had no focuses he didn't kill an Interceptor. He rolled plenty of focus results, haha.

Everything was moved in proper PS order, he just skipped a bunch of action opportunities and I used it to get an easy win.

Out of curiosity, is this the "MajorJuggler incident" (if I may jump on the bandwagon of coming up with catchy names for these things) that was discussed so much after the recent Nova Squadron podcast? The one where the TO ultimately ruled in such a way that ships didn't move?

No. But Paragoomba championed that situation.

I believe that I said MJ's WAAC opponent was wrong, and that the TO's StopWing ruling was ridiculous.

a bit hypocritical to say you criticize someone that did the exact same thing you did

Last event I was at I got called an ******* for denying a shot with a PS 8 when my opponent fired with his PS 7 first. My opponent took it well, but someone I consider a friend who had the bye and was observing the game said that I was being an *******, that what I was doing was sh*tty, and that he hoped karma catches up to me.

All in the name of flying casually. I like the guy, he's one of my favorite opponents. But now I have to deal with this hostile atmosphere.

I can't seriously pretend to be offended, but I'd rather play the game in a polite atmosphere with friends. I don't expect him to allow me missed triggers.

Some people detest the atmosphere under which every slip up of that kind, consequential or not, will be brutally exploited by the opponent. It can make the game feel pressured like an exam or worse confrontational. A lot of people don't like that in a game they're playing to relax and enjoy.

Outside of a tournament, if you want people to play with you, you've got to conduct play in a way they're comfortable with. They're not obligated to play with you and if they don't enjoy playing you they won't. While I'm generally on good form I don't enjoy playing against an opponent that's looking for every timing slip up he can to latch onto. My response won't be to threaten you or get angry. It'll just be to not play you again.

Inside of a tournament, it's a case of choosing maximising your chances of winning a few bits of plastic and bragging rights or maximising the quality of the atmosphere. Again, whichever is more important to you.

Said no one ever.

Are you kidding? It's been said a lot around here. I doubt we go more then a month or two where someone doesn't effectively say just that.

That if you don't fly by their unwritten rules, and according to what they consider to be the spirit of the game, you're a bad person if not worse.

Last event I was at I got called an ******* for denying a shot with a PS 8 when my opponent fired with his PS 7 first. My opponent took it well, but someone I consider a friend who had the bye and was observing the game said that I was being an *******, that what I was doing was sh*tty, and that he hoped karma catches up to me.

All in the name of flying casually. I like the guy, he's one of my favorite opponents. But now I have to deal with this hostile atmosphere.

I can't seriously pretend to be offended, but I'd rather play the game in a polite atmosphere with friends. I don't expect him to allow me missed triggers.

When you outright cheat, as you've admitted to in the past, and make dishonest standards part of your general play people are eventually going to call you exactly what you are acting like.

Said no one ever.

Are you kidding? It's been said a lot around here. I doubt we go more then a month or two where someone doesn't effectively say just that.

That if you don't fly by their unwritten rules, and according to what they consider to be the spirit of the game, you're a bad person if not worse.

Last event I was at I got called an ******* for denying a shot with a PS 8 when my opponent fired with his PS 7 first. My opponent took it well, but someone I consider a friend who had the bye and was observing the game said that I was being an *******, that what I was doing was sh*tty, and that he hoped karma catches up to me.

All in the name of flying casually. I like the guy, he's one of my favorite opponents. But now I have to deal with this hostile atmosphere.

I can't seriously pretend to be offended, but I'd rather play the game in a polite atmosphere with friends. I don't expect him to allow me missed triggers.

When you outright cheat, as you've admitted to in the past, and make dishonest standards part of your general play people are eventually going to call you exactly what you are acting like.

Yes, that one time I allowed my opponent to take a ship off the map that wasn't actually destroyed I cheated. I ha e since apologized to him and covered a tournament entry for him. Also, can't exactly blame me for it, if my opponent is going to look at a blank roll and get frustrated and take his ship off the board, be my guest lol.

I'm sorry.