It seems a bit dodgy to be screenshotting what someone posted to their own private Facebook page... It's significantly different than replying/responding to something publicly posted to a forum.

I can't believe someone just used the words "private" and "Facebook" in the same sentence.

Did some other digging, found out that that the tournament was NOT played to FFG rules.

There were 43 people in the tournament. FFG rules state there should be 5 rounds of swiss.

With 6 rounds of Swiss, this scenario is going to happen pretty much every time at this number of players.

There are reasons why the Swiss rounds are capped BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.

I'm disappointed in everyone here.

They started with 45. Drops don't change how many rounds you play.

You play 5 rounds all the way up to 64 players. Drops don't change how many people are at the top tables unless one of those people dropped.

I'm seeing 25-44 for 5 rounds in the basic structure.

You are correct. A previous PDF that is still online showed 64, so my initial post is wrong. Which is the number it should be. If there is a cut to top 8 with Swiss normal rounds, it should be 5 rounds to 64 because with that cut, you need to play just enough rounds to get to a top 8.

We are debating the wrong rule. FFG has the number of Swiss rounds wrong, which caused this, not intentional draws.

45 players needs 6 rounds to get all X-1 in, which is what they are going by. 5 rounds with that number means 1 X-1 player doesn't make the cut. It was a perfect storm. The number of rounds because of drops ended up being exactly one too many and leading to a perfect cut one round early.

To be fair 17 year Olds are generally terrible lol

Why do I get the impression most of us who really oppose this are from the UK?

I'm Canadian and I'm appalled by the whole thing. Very opposed.

Hmm so it's more a commonwealth thing interesting.

The American South is with you as well. Haven't run into anyone from down here that's not upset/pissed at the whole situation.

Why do I get the impression most of us who really oppose this are from the UK?

I'm Canadian and I'm appalled by the whole thing. Very opposed.

Hmm so it's more a commonwealth thing interesting.

The American South is with you as well. Haven't run into anyone from down here that's not upset/pissed at the whole situation

Its rare that the south ever comes down on the correct side of history from go, but we got it right this time.

It seems a bit dodgy to be screenshotting what someone posted to their own private Facebook page... It's significantly different than replying/responding to something publicly posted to a forum.

I can't believe someone just used the words "private" and "Facebook" in the same sentence.

That kind of depends on the settings of that posts. If I make a Facebook posts which is accessible to exactly 2 people, me and one other guy than I would be mighty pissed if someone starts uploading screenshots everywhere on the internet to discredit me. On a public post? All things are fair.

Check for yourself how public that post seems:

https://www.facebook.com/doug.kinney.710

(hint, even the screenshot shows that it was a private and not a public post)

It seems a bit dodgy to be screenshotting what someone posted to their own private Facebook page... It's significantly different than replying/responding to something publicly posted to a forum.

I can't believe someone just used the words "private" and "Facebook" in the same sentence.

That kind of depends on the settings of that posts. If I make a Facebook posts which is accessible to exactly 2 people, me and one other guy than I would be mighty pissed if someone starts uploading screenshots everywhere on the internet to discredit me. On a public post? All things are fair.

Check for yourself how public that post seems:

https://www.facebook.com/doug.kinney.710

Well, I don't have a Facebook account so I can't check this. Can any random person who has an account see this on his page?

As a newer player who has never been to a tournament this is all a bit above my head, but the dark side is clearly strong here. Anything that creates this much bad blood probably needs to be altered/done away with. i am happy for those who won these tournaments, and hopeful they will be a force for,positive change going forward by talking directly with FFG staff about how this has all played out and how bad it can be for the community.

It seems a bit dodgy to be screenshotting what someone posted to their own private Facebook page... It's significantly different than replying/responding to something publicly posted to a forum.

I can't believe someone just used the words "private" and "Facebook" in the same sentence.

That kind of depends on the settings of that posts. If I make a Facebook posts which is accessible to exactly 2 people, me and one other guy than I would be mighty pissed if someone starts uploading screenshots everywhere on the internet to discredit me. On a public post? All things are fair.

Check for yourself how public that post seems:

https://www.facebook.com/doug.kinney.710

Well, I don't have a Facebook account so I can't check this. Can any random person who has an account see this on his page?

No, hence why it seems dodgy to me.

It seems a bit dodgy to be screenshotting what someone posted to their own private Facebook page... It's significantly different than replying/responding to something publicly posted to a forum.

I can't believe someone just used the words "private" and "Facebook" in the same sentence.

That kind of depends on the settings of that posts. If I make a Facebook posts which is accessible to exactly 2 people, me and one other guy than I would be mighty pissed if someone starts uploading screenshots everywhere on the internet to discredit me. On a public post? All things are fair.

Check for yourself how public that post seems:

https://www.facebook.com/doug.kinney.710

Well, I don't have a Facebook account so I can't check this. Can any random person who has an account see this on his page?

No, hence why it seems dodgy to me.

Ah, good to know. Thank you.

Honest truth, if you look through this thread, I am generally just injecting a little snark hoping a couple of laughs will help people calm down a bit. The "private + Facebook" line struck me as funny, so I typed it. The only non-snarky post from me in here is the apology to m240guy because I do feel bad about making light of that when I bet it was really bad for him being the guy with boots on the ground. He's good people and I bet it sucked horribly when the chat exploded.

This is what led Paul Heaver to post what he did. Doug, the guy who "retired" from X-Wing. Riiiiiight. What melodramatic crap.

Doug Kinney, everyone. Calling out a 17-year old kid. The players in question followed the rules as published and distributed by FFG. Take your gripes to them instead of insulting players who played by the rules.

This proves my point that many people who purport to fly casual are in reality very militant about it. If you deny a missed trigger they will get very angry with you for example.

All Fly Casual has done is created a bunch of Bonzo Madrid's that fight with honor and throw a fit when someone takes advantage of the rules- in a competitive war game. Meanwhile their WAAC opponent remains calm and polite, having to deal with, "Are you serious bro? Are you ******* serious? I just forgot dude, this is a casual tournament, I just made a mistake. You suck all the fun out of the game."

WAAC players can be great ambassadors for the game. I played a few casual games today, one of which was with a new player. I built a good list for him with what he had, I traded him a card for one he had plenty of extras of, and I gave him a spare Guidance Chip card. We were playing casually so I gave him advice and reminded him of his actions.

Fly Casual has nothing to do with the success of this game's community, it's polite and knowledgeable people that grow it.

Don't forget lots of bitching and moaning about whatever list you aren't flying, PGS.

As a newer player who has never been to a tournament this is all a bit above my head, but the dark side is clearly strong here. Anything that creates this much bad blood probably needs to be altered/done away with. i am happy for those who won these tournaments, and hopeful they will be a force for,positive change going forward by talking directly with FFG staff about how this has all played out and how bad it can be for the community.

New, but not unwise.

Don't forget lots of bitching and moaning about whatever list you aren't flying, PGS.

I'm not exactly innocent and I'm a hypocrite when I say, "Hate the game not the player", but the post I made still stands.

It's something I should be more careful of, differentiating between the players using turrets/whatever else I hate and the actual broken game ruining thing itself. The local Super Dash player is better at the game than I am actually. Super Dash still is the equivalent of closing your eyes and slamming down your palm repeatedly on all the buttons in a fighting video game though.

So, when do players who are undefeated after 4 rounds start taking draws in R5 and R6 because they know 22 points will get them in the cut?

I'm commander kenkirk and this is my least favorite thread on the dauntless

Play to win. If you don't want to play go home.

So, when do players who are undefeated after 4 rounds start taking draws in R5 and R6 because they know 22 points will get them in the cut?

That isn't exactly how the math works...

I don't know either of these gentlemen. But what I read is a post that articulates some concerns about what has occurred in a fairly reasonable and polite tone. And whether Heaver likes it or not, the post is correct in stating that as a World Champion, his actions have consequences and will impact the player base.

We then have Heaver responding with vitriol, anger, and abuse. Like I said, I know neither individual and so can only judge them on their words...

Having seen this exact same behavior before from Hothie, who denounced people who knew him and thought of him as a friend, people are taking Hothie's side because he is espousing the rhetoric they side with. Paul's message was better as a PM,sure. But, it sounds like Hothie is responding to Paul outside the public eye as well.

Give it a rest. That was 10 years ago and while that situation also got out of hand, Hothie wasn't unjustified in his reaction then, either. This is the fifth time I've read this in this thread, but no one who doesn't know what happened cares, and those of us who do don't care that much either.

I guess the limits to being a good ambassador for a game stop at the game table when there's an opportunity for winning by the letter of the law rather than the spirit of sportsmanship...

Paul has every right to be upset after what Doug posted today. I don't blame him at all. I was disgusted when I saw Dougs post throwing everyone under the bus. He killed his own mantra with that post. Paul is a human being. Stop putting him on some kind of pedestal people.

Because everyone just let it go when lance Armstrong was caught doping, or when Michael vick was caught dog fighting.

When you're a big name in something you're in the spot light and have to bare that in mind when you act.

People are always disappointed to find their heroes have feet of clay.

Intentional Draw in X-Wing Competitive Play: Expressly condoned.

No.

"Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden."

This is clearly a case of this.

I guess the limits to being a good ambassador for a game stop at the game table when there's an opportunity for winning by the letter of the law rather than the spirit of sportsmanship...

This has nothing to do with it. Just be polite and knowledgeable and a good teacher of the game.

If you're at a tournament, play to win. Deny triggers and intentionally draw if that's the best option. Do it in a polite manner and follow the rules.

I'm sure when someone new to the game approaches Paul Heaver, he's a great ambassador and teacher of the game.

Again, Fly Casual has just created a bunch of Bonzo Madrid's. Ender in a desperate situation wins the game on a technicality, making a huge dazzling distraction as he sends a small team towards the enemy gate to trigger the end game ritual, winning the game without even scoring one kill. And Bonzo tries to kill him for it. What honor you have Bonzo.

I guess the limits to being a good ambassador for a game stop at the game table when there's an opportunity for winning by the letter of the law rather than the spirit of sportsmanship...

This has nothing to do with it. Just be polite and knowledgeable and a good teacher of the game.

If you're at a tournament, play to win. Deny triggers and intentionally draw if that's the best option. Do it in a polite manner and follow the rules.

You don't win by exploiting a certain loophole in the tournament system that lets you ignore playing the **** game for an entire round.

Win clean or don't bother. Win by PLAYING the game, not abusing the system

Intentional draw is essentially collusion, no matter how many players do it. But, it is allowed by the tournament rules. I would be extremely hesitant to do this at an FFG event, based on past history. However, this is rather unprecedented. Can you really blame the TO's for following what is written in the rules. I mean, FFG doesn't exactly give the best guidance to TOs.

I guess the limits to being a good ambassador for a game stop at the game table when there's an opportunity for winning by the letter of the law rather than the spirit of sportsmanship...

This has nothing to do with it. Just be polite and knowledgeable and a good teacher of the game.

If you're at a tournament, play to win. Deny triggers and intentionally draw if that's the best option. Do it in a polite manner and follow the rules.

I'm sure when someone new to the game approaches Paul Heaver, he's a great ambassador and teacher of the game.

Again, Fly Casual has just created a bunch of Bonzo Madrid's. Ender in a desperate situation wins the game on a technicality, making a huge dazzling distraction as he sends a small team towards the enemy gate to trigger the end game ritual, winning the game without even scoring one kill. And Bonzo tries to kill him for it. What honor you have Bonzo.