Even the players that are doing it say they don't like the rule. That means something is wrong.

The rule is not the problem, the ******* TO who does not protect the integrity of the tourney is the problem. The rules clearly state that this is ONLY legal if it does not compromise the tourney integrity, which means manipulating results is still off-limits.

The rules as well state that the TO needs to accept each of those draws and should only do so if it is not ******* up everyone else. It is a good rule to allow draws to prevent time-wasters, there are situations which can not resolved and will end in a draw. No point in waiting for the clock in those cases. But for christ sake, we have this in our Tourament rules:

Unsporting Conduct

Players are expected to behave in a mature and considerate manner, and to play within the rules and not abuse them. This prohibits intentionally stalling a game for time, placing components with excessive force, inappropriate behavior, treating an opponent with a lack of courtesy or respect, cheating, etc. Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden. Players cannot reference outside material or information during a round. However, players may reference official rule documents at any time or ask a judge for clarification from official rule documents. The organizer, at his or her sole discretion, may remove players from the tournament for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Complaining about the option to have a draw is imho not justified when just suggesting to a TO to decide who makes the cut with pre-arranged draws is a offence which gives the TO the right to remove those players without even second thought. It's good that we have the ability to agree on a draw, the rules are not at fault if a TO screws up and allows this to get out of hand.

Intentional Draws

During Swiss rounds, players may intentionally draw a game so long as a leader is present for any discussion between players prior to the agreement. The leader’s presence is required to prevent any breach of the tournament’s integrity. The leader will not intervene as long as players follow the “Unsporting Conduct” on page 3. If two players intentionally draw a game, each player receives 1 tournament point and a Margin of Victory of 100, just as if they were to arrive at a natural draw over the course of play.

Been banging that drum for weeks. Been laughed at by the community for it, especially since it was permitted at Adepticon. But you're not wrong.

Did it change the top 8 standing at all?

No? And yes?

All top 8 players stayed the same, since they all took it.

Players 9-20 who still had a chance to make it in on a win were instantly eliminated before playing their final round.

That's pretty rubbish. If I was in that second lot of players, I'd be pretty pissed off too, to be denied the chance of a top 8 place. If I don't make it? Fine. But hell, at least give me a shot.

And I think this is what it comes down to. Whether the ID really gets the best players in to the top 8 better than if it didn't exist seems to be irrelevant. But the fact that it clearly cuts the tournament short for a number of players, and you can put a name next to those players who didn't even get to try to play their way in, no matter how thin those margins were? That is what makes this taste bad.

Total crap. The top two players chilling out before the cut is crappy but I kinda see it. Losing the top eight is reprehensible. Saying "I don't like it but the rules permit it" makes you a double ****** IMO.

Then again, I've rarely been in a position to make the cut so what do I know?

Total crap. The top two players chilling out before the cut is crappy but I kinda see it. Losing the top eight is reprehensible. Saying "I don't like it but the rules permit it" makes you a double ****** IMO.

Then again, I've rarely been in a position to make the cut so what do I know?

Why would you blame the players? FFG just put in the rule and allowed it to be used to secure a spot in the cut at a premier event (Hoth open).

Cant blame the players for taking advantage if they're practically getting encouraged by FFG, in my opinion.

While I originally didn't mind the ID rule when it was released and I'm coming around to wish they handn't implemented it, I think we should be looking at something else here.

Doesn't the fact that there was a clean cut after 5 rounds means that there were too many rounds recommended to begin with?

Sadly, yes this includes the 3 time world champion, all I see is a bunch of quitters and cowards. If you truly deserved the cut, you could win that last game. Also am disappointed with the TO.

Total crap. The top two players chilling out before the cut is crappy but I kinda see it. Losing the top eight is reprehensible. Saying "I don't like it but the rules permit it" makes you a double ****** IMO.

Then again, I've rarely been in a position to make the cut so what do I know?

Why would you blame the players? FFG just put in the rule and allowed it to be used to secure a spot in the cut at a premier event (Hoth open).

Cant blame the players for taking advantage if they're practically getting encouraged by FFG, in my opinion.

How about because the players aren't automatons; but rather people who made an active decision to benefit themselves at the expense of others and an otherwise enjoyable, competitive event?

"Don't blame me, FFG says I can do it" is somewhat akin to a Nuremberg Defence, as I see it. Sure, you're permitted do it. But does that mean you should?

It says more about those players than it does FFG that the 8 of them effectively conspired to ensure they made it through and didn't actually have to risk their spot through playing the game. You know, the one you actually came to play in the first place?

If you're that sure you deserve to be in the top 8, then play that last game and put your money where your mouth is.

Total crap. The top two players chilling out before the cut is crappy but I kinda see it. Losing the top eight is reprehensible. Saying "I don't like it but the rules permit it" makes you a double ****** IMO.

Then again, I've rarely been in a position to make the cut so what do I know?

Why would you blame the players? FFG just put in the rule and allowed it to be used to secure a spot in the cut at a premier event (Hoth open).

Cant blame the players for taking advantage if they're practically getting encouraged by FFG, in my opinion.

If you don't want to play the game, why are you even at a tournament?

Sadly, yes this includes the 3 time world champion, all I see is a bunch of quitters and cowards. If you truly deserved the cut, you could win that last game. Also am disappointed with the TO.

Don't blame the players. Its the rules and ho the TOs saw them fit. However should not have happnd this away.

The rule as it stands is questionable, but attacking people's personal integrity for using an existing rule is lame, so let's not even start with that.

I would personally never take a draw, but not for any supposed moral reasons, I would just rather play all my games regardless of the outcome. Competitively speaking, if it's the "correct" call to make then why wouldn't people make use of it?

Ultimately the real problem with this rule seems to be the wording. In one section it blatantly states that intentional draws are legal, then refers to another section where it sort of discourages it from being used for this purpose, but in a not-very-specific way. What is the point then? What does allowing intentional draws actually accomplish if you aren't supposed to use them for scoring purposes? It's a bit of a mess overall.

Poorly designed rules and ruling are exploited by competitive players. This is not an immoral act. This is in fact necessary to point out situations where poor rules and rulings need to be fixed. The integrity of the game's rules are the responsibility of the designers and rule makers. Even the fact that there was ambiguity here, and room for us to debate amongst ourselves on whether or not this is legal, shows that clarification and fixes are in order.

While I feel bad for spots 20-9 in this tourney, I appreciate the top 8 bringing this situation to a head, which in turn will force FFG to move forward and correct their mistake.

The rule as it stands is questionable, but attacking people's personal integrity for using an existing rule is lame, so let's not even start with that.

I would personally never take a draw, but not for any supposed moral reasons, I would just rather play all my games regardless of the outcome. Competitively speaking, if it's the "correct" call to make then why wouldn't people make use of it?

Ultimately the real problem with this rule seems to be the wording. In one section it blatantly states that intentional draws are legal, then refers to another section where it sort of discourages it from being used for this purpose, but in a not-very-specific way. What is the point then? What does allowing intentional draws actually accomplish if you aren't supposed to use them for scoring purposes? It's a bit of a mess overall.

May I ask, would you use a first round bye, if you had one? Or would you play your first match?

The ID rule certainly needs amending. More stringent conditions like only opposing players with X-0 in the final round of the open swiss can take an ID.

Or just scrap ID altogether and make every player play every round. SC first round bye excepted.

Poorly designed rules and ruling are exploited by competitive players. This is not an immoral act. This is in fact necessary to point out situations where poor rules and rulings need to be fixed. The integrity of the game's rules are the responsibility of the designers and rule makers. Even the fact that there was ambiguity here, and room for us to debate amongst ourselves on whether or not this is legal, shows that clarification and fixes are in order.

While I feel bad for spots 20-9 in this tourney, I appreciate the top 8 bringing this situation to a head, which in turn will force FFG to move forward and correct their mistake.

Half the problem is that in instances like this being competitive translates as being a ****.

Wow. I can't believe the comments in here blaming the players and the TOs. The rules are so incredibly vague on the TO not allowing the draw that it's absurd to blame this person. Making it even more absurd is the fact that it was ALREADY ALLOWED BY FFG at the Hoth Open. It's ABUNDANTLY clear that this was exactly what the rule was implemented to allow: reserving your spot in the cut. So we should very quickly stop talking about collusion, the matter is closed.

And blaming the players? Calling them cowards as someone did? Seriously, wtf is that....

I would like to see the rule rescinded. But that's on FFG, end of story.

I have to sincerely hope that the top 8 did this intentionally to force this to the forefront to get it changed. Man, if they didn't, I am not sure if I would ever be interesting in participating in an X Wing tournament with that rule in existence.

X-Wing has that sweet frat group now. We can call them Iota Delta. It fits even more because it's pretty much all Imperials.

All I know is that I will use the ID rule as much as I can.

Total lack of respect for every player below 8th place.

If I saw this in Armada, I think I would raise holy hell. If I were a TO, I think I might have to step in and stop this. That extra round with the -1 players and the non top 8 happening can produce some awesome results. This just.....yeah.

Same rule exists in Armada. And every other FFG game.

i'm bringing a hammer at my regionals, it's use i leave to your imagination.

I mean apparently this makes me a horrible person but I go to a tournament to win it not to just play xwing and have a good time. The former I can do without tournaments and the latter I always have playing xwing. I wouldn't cheat but I would certainly take a guaranteed top 8 placement if the rules allowed it and anyone who wouldn't can make that decision as it comes up to them. Calling these players scummy or in one strange case comparing it to war crimes seems exceptionally out of line and uncalled for.

I mean apparently this makes me a horrible person but I go to a tournament to win it not to just play xwing and have a good time. The former I can do without tournaments and the latter I always have playing xwing. I wouldn't cheat but I would certainly take a guaranteed top 8 placement if the rules allowed it and anyone who wouldn't can make that decision as it comes up to them. Calling these players scummy or in one strange case comparing it to war crimes seems exceptionally out of line and uncalled for.

this made me laugh a little "or in one strange case comparing it to war crimes"

I mean apparently this makes me a horrible person but I go to a tournament to win it not to just play xwing and have a good time. The former I can do without tournaments and the latter I always have playing xwing. I wouldn't cheat but I would certainly take a guaranteed top 8 placement if the rules allowed it and anyone who wouldn't can make that decision as it comes up to them. Calling these players scummy or in one strange case comparing it to war crimes seems exceptionally out of line and uncalled for.

Maybe it's part of being British, but it's against the spirit of fair play to me, unless you'd still be in the top eight after a 0-200 loss (in this case the top three, I believe!)