You can not approach a premier, competitive event with casual expectations.

So the first round of a region does not matter because 12-16 store championship byes will be used and the last round doesn't matter because top x will decide to draw.

Is there any reason to attend a regional if you don't have a SC bye?

I'd like to imagine at least 1 of the top 8 finishers didn't have a store championship bye, although I can't say for sure. Does anyone know this?

I think this is a disgrace and I'm not even a tournament player, the rule needs changing asap and the top 8 need to be banned for a year to set an example.

The fact they were mocking people is an utter disgrace and not how this game should be seen.

Banning people that followed the rules is ridiculous.

Clearly, they did not "follow the rules." They manipulated them for their own advantage. Reading through the different discussions, it looks like there is a rule regarding "unsportsmanlike conduct" and this seems to fit based on the intent of what happened. This means the TO probably didn't do his due dilligence to protect the integrity of the event. It also probably means FFG should send a message to the players given their status in the community that such behavior won't be tolerated by banning them from Nationals play.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

FFG implemented the intentional draw rule. 4 tables invoked it. None of the those tables required any of the others to draw to make it in, so it wasn't like they needed to have a chat about it or convince one another that they needed to draw as a group.

Do you realize how foolish it would look for FFG to implement the rule and then ban players for using it exactly as they described? It would be a bigger PR blunder than implementing the rule.

Place the blame in the correct spot.

IDs will be a thing as long as draws are a thing, as the same result could be achieved by just bumping ships together for an hour, but to stop draws, you need a solid way of tiebreaking, which we don't have.

Using initiative might be a way, but I think that would make people with initiative fly super defensive to try and avoid engagement.

I think it is important to point out that the intentional draw rule and the issues with X-wing is a side effect of them trying to run many different types of games. I'm not sure how Magic is scored, but I do know that they do multiple games in a round. Netrunner is similar. I would not be surprised if the intentional draw came from the Netrunner crowd. The math on the intentional draw is much, much different than it is in this game.

The situation that allowed this requires a very specific set of circumstances. One more or one less 4-1 player would've meant this would never have happened.

This is a bad situation, sure. But, what they did was perfectly legal by the rules. Let's also not start lynching people over rumors. We don't know what happened there, and I am leaning toward the accusations of mocking may have been exaggerated by, understandably, sore players. There are just too many examples of situations changing when the other parties start to give their side of the story. Anyone remember the "accused of having loaded dice" story a month back?

IDs will be a thing as long as draws are a thing, as the same result could be achieved by just bumping ships together for an hour, but to stop draws, you need a solid way of tiebreaking, which we don't have.

Using initiative might be a way, but I think that would make people with initiative fly super defensive to try and avoid engagement.

Again, FFG punished the Spanish National winner for that. So they must see a difference.

I love how everyone is pointing out that this is a magical set of circumstances, and a very rare event, yet it happened in the FIRST major tournament with any publicity around it after the rule was implemented.

I love how everyone is pointing out that this is a magical set of circumstances, and a very rare event, yet it happened in the FIRST major tournament with any publicity around it after the rule was implemented.

Much as my green dice proved yesterday, luck is a *****.

I have no doubt there would still be people upset if the top 2 did an intentional draw, but it wouldn't be nearly the uproar it is now.

Super simple fix:

In the case of a draw, the player with initiative scores 1 point, and the other player scores 0 points.

IDs will be a thing as long as draws are a thing, as the same result could be achieved by just bumping ships together for an hour, but to stop draws, you need a solid way of tiebreaking, which we don't have.

Using initiative might be a way, but I think that would make people with initiative fly super defensive to try and avoid engagement.

Again, FFG punished the Spanish National winner for that. So they must see a difference.

And it's worth noting that, unlike other games with ID rules because it's impossible to police artificial draws, X-wing is pretty easy to spot... If you have a couple players fortressing for 75 minutes, or aiming at each other and not taking shots... Ya, that's obviously reason to cut them from the tournament.

I think this is a disgrace and I'm not even a tournament player, the rule needs changing asap and the top 8 need to be banned for a year to set an example.

The fact they were mocking people is an utter disgrace and not how this game should be seen.

Banning people that followed the rules is ridiculous.

Clearly, they did not "follow the rules." They manipulated them for their own advantage. Reading through the different discussions, it looks like there is a rule regarding "unsportsmanlike conduct" and this seems to fit based on the intent of what happened. This means the TO probably didn't do his due dilligence to protect the integrity of the event. It also probably means FFG should send a message to the players given their status in the community that such behavior won't be tolerated by banning them from Nationals play.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

FFG implemented the intentional draw rule. 4 tables invoked it. None of the those tables required any of the others to draw to make it in, so it wasn't like they needed to have a chat about it or convince one another that they needed to draw as a group.

Do you realize how foolish it would look for FFG to implement the rule and then ban players for using it exactly as they described? It would be a bigger PR blunder than implementing the rule.

Place the blame in the correct spot.

You started out by saying you didn't know how to respond. Obviously, you decided you did know how.

But, you were wrong, and I did place the blame correctly - on FFG, the players involved, and most of all the TO. I know how to read and comprehend, which I did before forming an opinion. Thanks for your reply.

Just because they started better doesn't mean that they were actually better. The top players and podcasts often refer to competitive tournaments as marathons. If I'm leading in a marathon at mile 21, I don't get to declare that no one can pass me while I take a break because I've already established I'm the best marathon runner. People only compare results after the completion of the entire race; here that would be ALL of Swiss.

Another example, this is like a class in school. If I am at the top of the class right before the final exam, I can't declare that I get the best grade and simply not show up for the exam. I might miss the exam, but if somebody behind me out works me, they may end up with a better grade.

Apples and Oranges

More often then not a player that is 4-1 has outperformed a person at 3-2

Swiss is not a marathon, it's many separate rounds. A marathon is one continuous action.

Remember also that this is not resulting in a person winning a whole tournament. It just allows them to make a cut.

I think people need to separate out the issue of whether people that used ID were disrespectful to other players (and vice versa) and the rule itself. They are very different things. If one is the root of the other, that's fine, but they are still two different things.

So the first round of a region does not matter because 12-16 store championship byes will be used and the last round doesn't matter because top x will decide to draw.

Is there any reason to attend a regional if you don't have a SC bye?

maybe the SC bye's should be eliminated.

I feel bad for FFG. You have one of their biggest games, pushing for the growth of the tournament into something more like Magic. And then you have their other biggest games pushing for entirely different standards.

So the first round of a region does not matter because 12-16 store championship byes will be used and the last round doesn't matter because top x will decide to draw.

Is there any reason to attend a regional if you don't have a SC bye?

maybe the SC bye's should be eliminated.

And thus, the tournament circuit is broken.

I think people are way to angry but, First off Fly Casual, what does this mean? Really? At what point can you fly because you'd like to win and expect others to fly just as well, know the rules and if you don't, sorry not sorry. Also, if we're "flying casual," why do we all care so much? No offense, but I have lost games too many times because I was worried about whether or not I was flying "casual" enough. If you're in a tournament especially regional fly to win.

Secondly, if you change the scheduling format to that everyone makes the cut and you seed everyone out to play a single elimination tournament after 3 rounds, you eliminate the ID making any different.

I love how everyone is pointing out that this is a magical set of circumstances, and a very rare event, yet it happened in the FIRST major tournament with any publicity around it after the rule was implemented.

Much as my green dice proved yesterday, luck is a *****.

I have no doubt there would still be people upset if the top 2 did an intentional draw, but it wouldn't be nearly the uproar it is now.

Scott, the top table in NM did it yesterday. No one blinked.

I think it is important to point out that the intentional draw rule and the issues with X-wing is a side effect of them trying to run many different types of games. I'm not sure how Magic is scored, but I do know that they do multiple games in a round. Netrunner is similar. I would not be surprised if the intentional draw came from the Netrunner crowd. The math on the intentional draw is much, much different than it is in this game.

The situation that allowed this requires a very specific set of circumstances. One more or one less 4-1 player would've meant this would never have happened.

This is a bad situation, sure. But, what they did was perfectly legal by the rules. Let's also not start lynching people over rumors. We don't know what happened there, and I am leaning toward the accusations of mocking may have been exaggerated by, understandably, sore players. There are just too many examples of situations changing when the other parties start to give their side of the story. Anyone remember the "accused of having loaded dice" story a month back?

MTG is much more similar to X-wing in format then to Netrunner.

In MTG you play a match that consists of a best of three games situation, at the end of that match you are still only getting points on based on if you won the match, not the result of the individual games played within that match.

In Netrunner each round consists of two games, played against the same opponent, that are scored individually. There is no match winner, you just get points for the games you win. A 3-3 result is very common in Netrunner as players will frequently win one game in a round and lose another.

So even though MTG is playing multiple games within around, it is doing so in order to give a singular match result. Which is exactly what you have in X-wing, though you only play one game. Netrunner scores every game individually, and doesn't look to determine a match winner. So the comparison you are making doesn't work beyond a superficial inspection.

Okay, I'm wrong about the Magic thing.

I think this is a disgrace and I'm not even a tournament player, the rule needs changing asap and the top 8 need to be banned for a year to set an example.

The fact they were mocking people is an utter disgrace and not how this game should be seen.

Banning people that followed the rules is ridiculous.

Following the rules and manipulating the rules are different things.

Just because you can do a thing does not mean you should.

Being legal does not automatically mean something is right or moral.

The top 8 gamed the system, we tend to punish people for that not applaud them.

Right and moral is not the same as illegal.

I'll say again: if I wanted to play Magic's rules I'd play magic

I'll say again: if I wanted to play Magic's rules I'd play magic

The rules are not the issue. In fact, Magic's tournament rules and system is leagues more advanced than FFG's. That is not something to hate on WOTC for.

The issue with Magic is the culture that it fosters, with the "pro" player mentality.

I think it is important to point out that the intentional draw rule and the issues with X-wing is a side effect of them trying to run many different types of games. I'm not sure how Magic is scored, but I do know that they do multiple games in a round. Netrunner is similar. I would not be surprised if the intentional draw came from the Netrunner crowd. The math on the intentional draw is much, much different than it is in this game.

The situation that allowed this requires a very specific set of circumstances. One more or one less 4-1 player would've meant this would never have happened.

This is a bad situation, sure. But, what they did was perfectly legal by the rules. Let's also not start lynching people over rumors. We don't know what happened there, and I am leaning toward the accusations of mocking may have been exaggerated by, understandably, sore players. There are just too many examples of situations changing when the other parties start to give their side of the story. Anyone remember the "accused of having loaded dice" story a month back?

MTG is much more similar to X-wing in format then to Netrunner.

In MTG you play a match that consists of a best of three games situation, at the end of that match you are still only getting points on based on if you won the match, not the result of the individual games played within that match.

In Netrunner each round consists of two games, played against the same opponent, that are scored individually. There is no match winner, you just get points for the games you win. A 3-3 result is very common in Netrunner as players will frequently win one game in a round and lose another.

So even though MTG is playing multiple games within around, it is doing so in order to give a singular match result. Which is exactly what you have in X-wing, though you only play one game. Netrunner scores every game individually, and doesn't look to determine a match winner. So the comparison you are making doesn't work beyond a superficial inspection.

Yeah, but ties/draws happen all the time in Magic, whereas it's a rarity in X-Wing.