zero means drop in LJ

The Bwing, Ewing and Yt-1300 are all struggling a bit to be relevant in this meta, thought I could see Heroes of the Resistance helping the one ship out, I wonder what the next step for the Ewing and Bwing are in the state of the competitive scene? Any chance Corran will come back into flavour with Defenders hitting the meta?

Individual players have been doing well with almost every ship in the game. This is good. Rebels are no longer crowding out both other factions in favor of Fat Falcons or regeneration. This is also good. They do seem to be falling behind the other two factions a little, however they do have some new lists that can compete (they just don't happen to be the same as the old lists). The meta's still not perfectly balanced (a tall order for any game), but it's healthier than ever.

Massachusetts Regionals Day 2 ended today, Top 16 are up on List Juggler:

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=1674

Winner was 40 hit points of Rebel glory. That's definitely a first this season, for winning anyway. Francois seems to like high HP squads, as he was playing dual decimators at Worlds last year.

I'll compile the results into the first page of this thread in the next couple of days.

MJ, did I look at that correctly? Only 5 of the top 50 squads were Rebel?

That's a little concerning.

Looking at the results overall, Rebels are doing fine.

Then I apologize, the data looks really incomplete on List Juggler for recent regionals. What % of Rebels are making top 16s? Can you share the link you are using? I'd like to take a look. I find this stuff fascinating.

Pretty much the first page. Their popularity seems to be regional, but there are a enough different Rebel squads doing well, that I am satisfied where they are competitively.

I rebel list in the top 16! Blimy.

Will have a proper look later but looks like bro bots vs crack vs uboats!

yes. Jesper made a great meta call in taking his double IG's. the number of Imperial aces has vastly reduced recently, and the IGs are very strong against the Uboats and Crack swarms that have replaced them at the top tables.

Number of Imp Aces has reduced recently? I want to move to your local meta! New England had tons at this past regional, including one in top 4.

Pretty much the first page. Their popularity seems to be regional, but there are a enough different Rebel squads doing well, that I am satisfied where they are competitively.

So basically because Rebels as a faction can make a 100 point list and do it differently, they are fine competitively? That doesn't even make any sense.

I went to the first page and tallied up the top 8s. Rebels are making up 25% of the top 8s in a 3 faction game. That is not good. You are free to go with your gut feeling, I hope Alex and Frank on the other hand are actually looking at the numbers.

37% and 37% for Scum and Imperials for those that are curious. (Rebels round up to 26%)

Massachusetts Regionals Day 2 ended today, Top 16 are up on List Juggler:

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=1674

Winner was 40 hit points of Rebel glory. That's definitely a first this season, for winning anyway. Francois seems to like high HP squads, as he was playing dual decimators at Worlds last year.

I'll compile the results into the first page of this thread in the next couple of days.

MJ, did I look at that correctly? Only 5 of the top 50 squads were Rebel?

That's a little concerning.

Our TO does a great job at collecting the results and posting to ListJuggler, so what's up there should be correct. I wasn't there (was at a wedding), and haven't counted through it myself yet.

As to whether Rebels are having trouble over the entire regional season, is an entirely different conversation... (based on the data I have been compiling, they are.)

I don't see a problem with this though.

Less regen 1 straight green to victory crap.

Less fat turrets.

A meta with less rebel players in it is a meta with less NPE based lists.

Massachusetts Regionals Day 2 ended today, Top 16 are up on List Juggler:

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=1674

Winner was 40 hit points of Rebel glory. That's definitely a first this season, for winning anyway. Francois seems to like high HP squads, as he was playing dual decimators at Worlds last year.

I'll compile the results into the first page of this thread in the next couple of days.

MJ, did I look at that correctly? Only 5 of the top 50 squads were Rebel?

That's a little concerning.

Our TO does a great job at collecting the results and posting to ListJuggler, so what's up there should be correct. I wasn't there (was at a wedding), and haven't counted through it myself yet.

As to whether Rebels are having trouble over the entire regional season, is an entirely different conversation... (based on the data I have been compiling, they are.)

I don't see a problem with this though.

Less regen 1 straight green to victory crap.

Less fat turrets.

A meta with less rebel players in it is a meta with less NPE based lists.

Well what constitutes an NPE is completely subjective. Your opinion is as valid as mine.

That Rebels are "competitively fine" however, is not subjective. Available data says they are not.

Pretty much the first page. Their popularity seems to be regional, but there are a enough different Rebel squads doing well, that I am satisfied where they are competitively.

So basically because Rebels as a faction can make a 100 point list and do it differently, they are fine competitively? That doesn't even make any sense.

I went to the first page and tallied up the top 8s. Rebels are making up 25% of the top 8s in a 3 faction game. That is not good. You are free to go with your gut feeling, I hope Alex and Frank on the other hand are actually looking at the numbers.

Rebels are in a bit of a rough spot right now, but they're still hanging in there. The alpha strike damage of U-Boats has pushed regen mechanics out of the spotlight, and massive amounts of health have basically killed the TLT (enjoy trying to deal with 40 HP in ships when you're capped at 8 damage per round). However, part of their problem is simply that people aren't even giving them a chance, or trying to stick with the old things. That simply isn't going to work. You have to adapt to the game.

Massachusetts Regionals Day 2 ended today, Top 16 are up on List Juggler:

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=1674

Winner was 40 hit points of Rebel glory. That's definitely a first this season, for winning anyway. Francois seems to like high HP squads, as he was playing dual decimators at Worlds last year.

I'll compile the results into the first page of this thread in the next couple of days.

MJ, did I look at that correctly? Only 5 of the top 50 squads were Rebel?

That's a little concerning.

Our TO does a great job at collecting the results and posting to ListJuggler, so what's up there should be correct. I wasn't there (was at a wedding), and haven't counted through it myself yet.

As to whether Rebels are having trouble over the entire regional season, is an entirely different conversation... (based on the data I have been compiling, they are.)

I don't see a problem with this though.

Less regen 1 straight green to victory crap.

Less fat turrets.

A meta with less rebel players in it is a meta with less NPE based lists.

Well what constitutes an NPE is completely subjective. Your opinion is as valid as mine.

That Rebels are "competitively fine" however, is not subjective. Available data says they are not.

And that's fantastic for the game.

FYI the TO Brian Frost has a breakdown of the Massachusetts Regionals started here:

http://commanderfrost.tumblr.com/

Pretty much the first page. Their popularity seems to be regional, but there are a enough different Rebel squads doing well, that I am satisfied where they are competitively.

So basically because Rebels as a faction can make a 100 point list and do it differently, they are fine competitively? That doesn't even make any sense.

I went to the first page and tallied up the top 8s. Rebels are making up 25% of the top 8s in a 3 faction game. That is not good. You are free to go with your gut feeling, I hope Alex and Frank on the other hand are actually looking at the numbers.

You do understand that getting to 33% is nearly impossible this type of game, right? It is worlds better than 70-30 when the game was 2 faction. Is it ideal, no. But neither would I consider it a poor showing. Especially since looking at the timeline, Rebels are getting more popular as we adjust to the post Wave 8 meta.

However, part of their problem is simply that people aren't even giving them a chance, or trying to stick with the old things. That simply isn't going to work. You have to adapt to the game.

Phantom, what are you basing that on? List Juggler indicates that for regional play Rebels are making up 33% of the lists. So that seems to indicate that 1/3 of the players are willing to give them a chance. The most popular Rebel ship? The VCX-100 which is in fact, new.

Are you seriously telling me that the 33% of players that are gravitating to Rebels are just worse at list building with what they have?

You fellas realize that it is ok to both love this game and still see room for improvement at the same time, right?

Um instead of looking at the break down by faction in the top 16 don't you need to look at the ratios of (list entered : top 16) per faction, then you only need to assume that all faction have a similar distribution of skillfull players.

EastCoast, how did you find that 33% of lists are rebel stat? Is there a demographics page on list juggler?

never mind, found it.

Pretty much the first page. Their popularity seems to be regional, but there are a enough different Rebel squads doing well, that I am satisfied where they are competitively.

So basically because Rebels as a faction can make a 100 point list and do it differently, they are fine competitively? That doesn't even make any sense.

I went to the first page and tallied up the top 8s. Rebels are making up 25% of the top 8s in a 3 faction game. That is not good. You are free to go with your gut feeling, I hope Alex and Frank on the other hand are actually looking at the numbers.

You do understand that getting to 33% is nearly impossible this type of game, right? It is worlds better than 70-30 when the game was 2 faction. Is it ideal, no. But neither would I consider it a poor showing. Especially since looking at the timeline, Rebels are getting more popular as we adjust to the post Wave 8 meta.

Impossible? Is there an element of magic in game design that I'm missing?

Yes, it's better than when it was 70-30. Diet Pepsi also has less calories than regular Pepsi. Why am I bringing up something that isn't pertinent? I have no idea.

And yes to your last line, Rebels are in fact getting more popular. They are up 3% in popularity. 100 degrees F is warmer than 86 degrees F. Why am I bringing up something that isn't pertinent? I have no idea.

The Rebels need a competitive boost based on the data we have. What we don't know, is what's coming in the future expansions, but the current state of the game is the current state of the game.

Pretty much the first page. Their popularity seems to be regional, but there are a enough different Rebel squads doing well, that I am satisfied where they are competitively.

So basically because Rebels as a faction can make a 100 point list and do it differently, they are fine competitively? That doesn't even make any sense.

I went to the first page and tallied up the top 8s. Rebels are making up 25% of the top 8s in a 3 faction game. That is not good. You are free to go with your gut feeling, I hope Alex and Frank on the other hand are actually looking at the numbers.

You do understand that getting to 33% is nearly impossible this type of game, right? It is worlds better than 70-30 when the game was 2 faction. Is it ideal, no. But neither would I consider it a poor showing. Especially since looking at the timeline, Rebels are getting more popular as we adjust to the post Wave 8 meta.

Impossible? Is there an element of magic in game design that I'm missing?

Yes, it's better than when it was 70-30. Diet Pepsi also has less calories than regular Pepsi. Why am I bringing up something that isn't pertinent? I have no idea.

And yes to your last line, Rebels are in fact getting more popular. They are up 3% in popularity. 100 degrees F is warmer than 86 degrees F. Why am I bringing up something that isn't pertinent? I have no idea.

The Rebels need a competitive boost based on the data we have. What we don't know, is what's coming in the future expansions, but the current state of the game is the current state of the game.

Rebel players can still win, they just need to put thought into their builds. Dual Ghost lists for example. You can't just slap down Poe and Miranda on the table anymore and have a top tier list anymore.

Also, Dash's entire dial is ******* GREEN. Rebels do not need a competitive boost.

Um instead of looking at the break down by faction in the top 16 don't you need to look at the ratios of (list entered : top 16) per faction, then you only need to assume that all faction have a similar distribution of skillfull players.

You can definitely do a better deep dive than I did. I haven't been following the current meta, I just happened to click on MJ's link and was surprised by what I saw.

To Sithborg's point, it was only a single regional, but there were 24 or 25 rebel lists out of 91, and only 5 placed in the top 50. I then was just curious because I find this stuff interesting so I quickly tallied what was there in the top 8.

EastCoast, I dont think Rebels need a boost, if the trend of rebels loosing their share in the winners circle continues then sure they need a boost. I think what you are seeing is Scum enjoying the lateest release not the rebels becoming non competitive. I would bet with the re-release of the falcon you will see rebels get back over 33% in the cut. Just look at the vassal numbers, no scum anywhere (never mind they do mirror closer than I thought).

The faction that's completely dominated by fat turrets and regen does not need a buff.

Rebel players can still win, they just need to put thought into their builds. Dual Ghost lists for example. You can't just slap down Poe and Miranda on the table anymore and have a top tier list anymore.

Also, Dash's entire dial is ******* GREEN. Rebels do not need a competitive boost.

Who says they have to make them better by buffing regen or fat turrets? If I've advocated that somewhere I certainly didn't mean to.

EastCoast, I dont think Rebels need a boost, if the trend of rebels loosing their share in the winners circle continues then sure they need a boost. I think what you are seeing is Scum enjoying the lateest release not the rebels becoming non competitive. I would bet with the re-release of the falcon you will see rebels get back over 33% in the cut. Just look at the vassal numbers, no scum anywhere (they are a bit out of date).

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not declaring Rebels non-competitive. I'm declaring them not as competitive as the other 2 factions.

Yes, the Falcon and the Re-Poe man may be the bump to push them back. I only know where things are now with the data that's available. Maybe we are exactly where the designers envisioned us to be at this point in time.

The faction that's completely dominated by fat turrets and regen does not need a buff.

Rebel players can still win, they just need to put thought into their builds. Dual Ghost lists for example. You can't just slap down Poe and Miranda on the table anymore and have a top tier list anymore.

Also, Dash's entire dial is ******* GREEN. Rebels do not need a competitive boost.

Who says they have to make them better by buffing regen or fat turrets? If I've advocated that somewhere I certainly didn't mean to.

Who says? PGS does. Because those are his 2 least favorite things, so he'll take the opportunity to complain about them even when they're not an issue.

EastCoast, I dont think Rebels need a boost, if the trend of rebels loosing their share in the winners circle continues then sure they need a boost. I think what you are seeing is Scum enjoying the lateest release not the rebels becoming non competitive. I would bet with the re-release of the falcon you will see rebels get back over 33% in the cut. Just look at the vassal numbers, no scum anywhere (they are a bit out of date).

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not declaring Rebels non-competitive. I'm declaring them not as competitive as the other 2 factions.

Yes, the Falcon and the Re-Poe man may be the bump to push them back. I only know where things are now with the data that's available. Maybe we are exactly where the designers envisioned us to be at this point in time.

Maybe. Alex did say there was some kind of counter to the JumpMasters coming soon. Maybe if whatever that is gives Rebels a chance against ordnance boats they'll edge back into the meta a little.

Does anyone know what was in that 2 K wing list that made the cut in the Austin Regionals?