So everybody is running either crack swarm or some form of palp aces to counter uboats so the uboats get pushed out. And the rebels with their regen/stress squads do nothing. Great meta

I'd get owned by the u-boats, but I'd love to face a bunch of those squads with my spectres ghost build...

But thats exactly the issue, isnt it. So far nobody seems to have found a rebel squad that counters both uboats and palp aces.

Updates from NOVA FB page. Round 6 is still going on in Virginia.

All of the 4-1 and 5-0 people took the ID. Pushing all people below them out of top 8. Top 8:

1: Jeremy Howard: Fel Inquisitor Palp

2: Ben Kavanaugh: Scourge Wampa Palp Howlrunner Alpha squadron

3: Paul Heaver: Omega leader Inquisitor Carnor Academy

4: duncan Howard: Fel Valen Palp

5: Alex Raubach: Howlrunner 3 Blacks and 2 Omega squad all with crack

6: Brian Goodspeed: Yorr Palpmobile Omega Leader Whisper

7: John Louis Rumingan: U boats

8: Eric Maynard: Yorr Palpmobile Omega Leader Whisper

My goodness. 5 Palps, 1 Imp Aces, 1 Crack swarm and 1 Uboat..? I really don't like the way this meta is shaping...

If this is what IDs produce, then ya, I'm gonna start campaigning against it haha.

I posted this in the other thread, but I'll post it here. I'm also coming around on the ID rule; however, the fact that no Top 8 player needed to play to keep their spot probably means there were actually too many recommended rounds and that there was a pretty clean cut after 5 round, which is what Swiss should get you. I'm not saying that in defense of the rule, just that there are two things going on there.

You got that wrong, the guaranteed 1 point of an ID, as opposed to the possibility of a 0 point loss, is what solidified their position. Probably at least 2-4 of those players could have been booted out of the top 8 with a loss.

Which is why, in my view, an ID should be worth 0 point. Perfect record players can sit it out safely, others have to take a risk. Short draws, like flying off the map, should have the se treatment. Want to engineer one? Sure play on for at least xx minutes first.

Lists are fully updated on post #2:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/216805-2016-regionals-results/#entry2159419

Re: ID issue. If you give the top seeded players from Swiss a bye in the first round of elimination then it makes ID largely a moot point. The actual underlying problem is that there is no benefit to going #1 in Swiss vs just barely making the cut. If you're in you're in.

imo the results from this Regional should be discounted because the final results have been manipulated.

You got that wrong, the guaranteed 1 point of an ID, as opposed to the possibility of a 0 point loss, is what solidified their position. Probably at least 2-4 of those players could have been booted out of the top 8 with a loss.

Which is why, in my view, an ID should be worth 0 point. Perfect record players can sit it out safely, others have to take a risk. Short draws, like flying off the map, should have the se treatment. Want to engineer one? Sure play on for at least xx minutes first.

No, I don't actually have it wrong. If you look at the final standings after R4, there were 8 players with 20 points. It was a perfectly clean cut at that point. Yes, the draw solidified it, but there were no tiebreakers needed at that point as there would have been with one more round.

You got that wrong, the guaranteed 1 point of an ID, as opposed to the possibility of a 0 point loss, is what solidified their position. Probably at least 2-4 of those players could have been booted out of the top 8 with a loss.

Which is why, in my view, an ID should be worth 0 point. Perfect record players can sit it out safely, others have to take a risk. Short draws, like flying off the map, should have the se treatment. Want to engineer one? Sure play on for at least xx minutes first.

No, I don't actually have it wrong. If you look at the final standings after R4, there were 8 players with 20 points. It was a perfectly clean cut at that point. Yes, the draw solidified it, but there were no tiebreakers needed at that point as there would have been with one more round.

And if it were only a 5 round tournament that would be fine. Except after the sixth round, it's not so clean anymore, and it WOULD use tiebreakers. Which they completely ignored and negated, and screwed 12 people out of even being able to take a shot at making the cut like they should have had.

Edit: One could make the same argument for a 16 player tournament to just cut after round 2 when there's 4 undefeated players if all you want is a clean cut. Except that's not how it works.

You got that wrong, the guaranteed 1 point of an ID, as opposed to the possibility of a 0 point loss, is what solidified their position. Probably at least 2-4 of those players could have been booted out of the top 8 with a loss.

Which is why, in my view, an ID should be worth 0 point. Perfect record players can sit it out safely, others have to take a risk. Short draws, like flying off the map, should have the se treatment. Want to engineer one? Sure play on for at least xx minutes first.

No, I don't actually have it wrong. If you look at the final standings after R4, there were 8 players with 20 points. It was a perfectly clean cut at that point. Yes, the draw solidified it, but there were no tiebreakers needed at that point as there would have been with one more round.

And if it were only a 5 round tournament that would be fine. Except after the sixth round, it's not so clean anymore, and it WOULD use tiebreakers. Which they completely ignored and negated, and screwed 12 people out of even being able to take a shot at making the cut like they should have had.

Edit: One could make the same argument for a 16 player tournament to just cut after round 2 when there's 4 undefeated players if all you want is a clean cut. Except that's not how it works.

Right, which is why it should have been 5 rounds.

You got that wrong, the guaranteed 1 point of an ID, as opposed to the possibility of a 0 point loss, is what solidified their position. Probably at least 2-4 of those players could have been booted out of the top 8 with a loss.

Which is why, in my view, an ID should be worth 0 point. Perfect record players can sit it out safely, others have to take a risk. Short draws, like flying off the map, should have the se treatment. Want to engineer one? Sure play on for at least xx minutes first.

No, I don't actually have it wrong. If you look at the final standings after R4, there were 8 players with 20 points. It was a perfectly clean cut at that point. Yes, the draw solidified it, but there were no tiebreakers needed at that point as there would have been with one more round.

And if it were only a 5 round tournament that would be fine. Except after the sixth round, it's not so clean anymore, and it WOULD use tiebreakers. Which they completely ignored and negated, and screwed 12 people out of even being able to take a shot at making the cut like they should have had.

Edit: One could make the same argument for a 16 player tournament to just cut after round 2 when there's 4 undefeated players if all you want is a clean cut. Except that's not how it works.

Right, which is why it should have been 5 rounds.

My point is that it wasn't. It was a 6 round tournament. It doesn't matter what it looks like after any previous round. It matters what the results are after 6 rounds, part of which should be *everyone* playing 6 rounds, then determining the top 8 after that.

Or tournaments NEED to be an odd number of rounds to maybe avoid this?

You got that wrong, the guaranteed 1 point of an ID, as opposed to the possibility of a 0 point loss, is what solidified their position. Probably at least 2-4 of those players could have been booted out of the top 8 with a loss.

Which is why, in my view, an ID should be worth 0 point. Perfect record players can sit it out safely, others have to take a risk. Short draws, like flying off the map, should have the se treatment. Want to engineer one? Sure play on for at least xx minutes first.

No, I don't actually have it wrong. If you look at the final standings after R4, there were 8 players with 20 points. It was a perfectly clean cut at that point. Yes, the draw solidified it, but there were no tiebreakers needed at that point as there would have been with one more round.

And if it were only a 5 round tournament that would be fine. Except after the sixth round, it's not so clean anymore, and it WOULD use tiebreakers. Which they completely ignored and negated, and screwed 12 people out of even being able to take a shot at making the cut like they should have had.

Edit: One could make the same argument for a 16 player tournament to just cut after round 2 when there's 4 undefeated players if all you want is a clean cut. Except that's not how it works.

Right, which is why it should have been 5 rounds.

My point is that it wasn't. It was a 6 round tournament. It doesn't matter what it looks like after any previous round. It matters what the results are after 6 rounds, part of which should be *everyone* playing 6 rounds, then determining the top 8 after that.

And my point, even though I'd rather see the round played, is that the ID is much less of a factor if the number of rounds is set up for as clean a cut as possible.

Or tournaments NEED to be an odd number of rounds to maybe avoid this?

Even vs odd doesn't change anything. It's all a matter of how many players there are. At some player conts it'll work out to an odd number of rounds. For others, it'll work out to an even number to get the best cut.

You got that wrong, the guaranteed 1 point of an ID, as opposed to the possibility of a 0 point loss, is what solidified their position. Probably at least 2-4 of those players could have been booted out of the top 8 with a loss.

Which is why, in my view, an ID should be worth 0 point. Perfect record players can sit it out safely, others have to take a risk. Short draws, like flying off the map, should have the se treatment. Want to engineer one? Sure play on for at least xx minutes first.

No, I don't actually have it wrong. If you look at the final standings after R4, there were 8 players with 20 points. It was a perfectly clean cut at that point. Yes, the draw solidified it, but there were no tiebreakers needed at that point as there would have been with one more round.

And if it were only a 5 round tournament that would be fine. Except after the sixth round, it's not so clean anymore, and it WOULD use tiebreakers. Which they completely ignored and negated, and screwed 12 people out of even being able to take a shot at making the cut like they should have had.

Edit: One could make the same argument for a 16 player tournament to just cut after round 2 when there's 4 undefeated players if all you want is a clean cut. Except that's not how it works.

Right, which is why it should have been 5 rounds.

My point is that it wasn't. It was a 6 round tournament. It doesn't matter what it looks like after any previous round. It matters what the results are after 6 rounds, part of which should be *everyone* playing 6 rounds, then determining the top 8 after that.

And my point, even though I'd rather see the round played, is that the ID is much less of a factor if the number of rounds is set up for as clean a cut as possible.

Does anyone know how many people were actually at the tournament? I haven't seen that number anywhere yet. It's entirely possible depending on numbers to not be guaranteed for it to work out to a perfect top 8 after 5 rounds like it did today. If it'd be 5 or 7 4-1 players instead of 6, you woulnd't have had the perfect cut (though with only 5, they could have still all ID). But without knowing how many people were there I couldn't say (basically, if someone got paired down some round and won, whereas if they'd lost there'd be an odd number instaed)

45 dropped down to 39 by final round

45 dropped down to 39 by final round

Based on a 45 player start, it's entirely possible the event could have ended up with 2 5-0s and 7 4-1s instead of 6, in which case it wouldn't have had the perfect cut after round 5 to ally them to all ID and open the argument for not needing the 6th round.

45 dropped down to 39 by final round

Based on a 45 player start, it's entirely possible the event could have ended up with 2 5-0s and 7 4-1s instead of 6, in which case it wouldn't have had the perfect cut after round 5 to ally them to all ID and open the argument for not needing the 6th round.

Fair enough, but maybe the number of rounds should be flexible based on this. My point, again, was why the draws were able to essentially invalidate the last round. In most cases, hopefully the number won't be that close to the border.

How about taking the ID discussion to the burgeoning thread dedicated to it and leaving this thread for discussion of regional results.

Like a weird imperial hodge podge of tie aces and generics loaded with crackshot along with a palpmobile won. An interesting list which could indicate developing meta with the palp aces format.

Roanoke, Virginia, United States

April 9, 2016

Star City Games

Attendance: 45

List Juggler: TBD

Factoid: after round 5, exactly 8 players were 4-1 and 5-0, so all 8 took intentional draws in round 6 of Swiss.

https://www.twitch.tv/steleenterprises

Winner :

• Ben Kavanaugh (#2 Swiss, 26 / 847): Howlrunner + Crackshot; Scourge + Crackshot; Wampa; Omicron + Palp; Alpha + AT

Runner-up :

• Duncan Howard (#4 Swiss, 21 / 867): Fel + PTL + AT + SD; Valen + PTL + AT + title + proton rockets; Omicron + Palp + SJ

Top 4 :

• Jeremy Howard (#1 Swiss, 26 / 887): Fel + PTL + AT + SD; Inquisitor + PTL + AT + title; Omicron + Palp SJ
• Paul Heaver (#3 Swiss, 21 / 904): Omega leader + Juke + CR; Inquisitor + PTL + AT + title; Carnor + PTL + AT; Academy

Top 8 :

• Alex Raubach (#5 Swiss, 21 / 854) Howlrunner; 2x Omega Squadron + Crackshot; 3x Black Squadron + Crackshot
• Brian Goodspeed (#6 Swiss, 21 / 771): Yorr + Palp; Omega Leader + Juke + CR; Whisper + VI + ACD + FCS + Kallus
• John Louis Rumingan (#7 Swiss, 21 / 741): Scout + Deadeye + GC + Proton + EM + R4 + Boba; Scout + Deadeye + GC + Plasma + OCR4 + EM + 4LOM; Scout + Deadeye + GC + Plasma + OCR4
• Eric Maynard (#8 Swiss, 21 / 730): Yorr + Palp; Omega Leader + Juke + CR; Whisper + VI + ACD + FCS + Kallus

Results from Virginia are in.

Hopefully we get results from New Mexico as well.

I'm here to complain about Rebels dominating the meta.

...am I too late?

5 A - wings just won NM

5 A - wings just won NM

Beautiful. Glad to say I'm pleased with both of these winners. Ben's list, although a Palp shuttle variant, is far from typical, and 5 A-wings is just a beautiful list I would be more than happy to see on more tables.

New Mexico, please tell us what happened.

New Mexico from memory:

1st: Julian Horvath with 5x Green Squadron + Adaptability, Crack Shot, Chardaan Refit, A-Wing Test Pilot, Autothrusters

2nd: Chris Little with 3x Contracted Scout + Deadeye, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, R4 Agromec, Guidance Chips

Top4: Dan Poppe with Palp, Carnor, Omega, Wampa

Top4: Alex Yuen with Kanan + Advanced Sensors, TLT, RecSpec, Tactician, Tactical Jammer, Ghost; Ezra + Rage, Chopper, Phantom; Biggs +R4-D6, IA

Top8: Iain Hamp with Howlrunner Wampa Crack swarm

Top8: Dan Mahoney with RAC Whisper

Top8: Leighton Eash with Lothal Rebel and Miranda

Top8: Nathan Bolander with triple Scouts.

New Mexico from memory:

1st: Julian Horvath with 5x Green Squadron + Adaptability, Crack Shot, Chardaan Refit, A-Wing Test Pilot, Autothrusters

2nd: Chris Little with 3x Contracted Scout + Deadeye, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, R4 Agromec, Guidance Chips

Top4: Dan Poppe with Palp, Carnor, Omega, Wampa

Top4: Alex Yuen with Kanan + Advanced Sensors, TLT, RecSpec, Tactician, Tactical Jammer, Ghost; Ezra + Rage, Chopper, Phantom; Biggs +R4-D6, IA

Top8: Iain Hamp with Howlrunner Wampa Crack swarm

Top8: Dan Mahoney with RAC Whisper

Top8: Leighton Eash with Lothal Rebel and Miranda

Top8: Nathan Bolander with triple Scouts.

Thanks dude! Oh man, the dream is real.

New Mexico from memory:

1st: Julian Horvath with 5x Green Squadron + Adaptability, Crack Shot, Chardaan Refit, A-Wing Test Pilot, Autothrusters

2nd: Chris Little with 3x Contracted Scout + Deadeye, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, R4 Agromec, Guidance Chips

Top4: Dan Poppe with Palp, Carnor, Omega, Wampa

Top4: Alex Yuen with Kanan + Advanced Sensors, TLT, RecSpec, Tactician, Tactical Jammer, Ghost; Ezra + Rage, Chopper, Phantom; Biggs +R4-D6, IA

Top8: Iain Hamp with Howlrunner Wampa Crack swarm

Top8: Dan Mahoney with RAC Whisper

Top8: Leighton Eash with Lothal Rebel and Miranda

Top8: Nathan Bolander with triple Scouts.

That's a nicely varied mix of lists there. Very different set of results to Roanoke in terms of faction numbers.