I was browsing the LGS the other day looking at X-wing and the amount of scum they had just had me thinking "so...when will scum come to Armada."

With all this talk of Wave IV I put up...I really really think an infusion of another faction could be a good thing. I was playing forces of corruption last night and the idea of Tyber Zahn's consortium really appealed to me...star vipers and skiprays with the assorted corvettes, frigates...that lovely little ship with the mass drivers...the Kedelbi Battleship and that massive Aggressor Class destroyer (with the huge cannons).

Maybe we're due for some scum guys? Could even have a pack that could include Z-95's, and Ugly fighters DYE-wing for example

The fascinating story of Ching Shih, the infamous Chinese pirate queen, is probably the first, last and only time that a pirate navy has ever successfully fought toe to toe with a major established power. But that's because the power in question had no major established navy of its own at the time, and the naval powers it traded with could not move into the area in any great force without starting a confrontation with China or leaving their own countries indefensible.

The low over time had made things very clear: any criminal organizations have either thrown in with the Rebellion, the Empire, or neither. Only the ones with connections to the first two have even the slightest hope of maintaining any sort of serious navy without being immediately crushed.

The Hutt empire isn't holding off Star Destroyers with guns, they are holding the threat of ending all their trade deals and making the Imperial economy and trade with the outer rim effectively impossible.

I wouldn't mind it if they did it carefully. A Scum fleet? Heavens no!

So basically, the "most powerful" fleet that Armada can conjure is 3 ISDs, that's a huge force for almost any task - but it certainly isn't unmatchable by several factions. No pirates could match it, but the Hutts could, the Hapans could, or my personal favorite, have a Mandalorian faction. Now that EU canon is gone, nothing stops the Mando from being a notable, if not major, presence in the galaxy. Again, any faction really only needs enough firepower to contend with 3 ISDs to be big enough to contend in Armada.

Then again, I also have no problem with 2 factions, either.

They brought in the Assault Frigate MK 2...that leaves the door open for Tyber Zahn and his minions.

I do think a small scum option is possible...

They brought in the Assault Frigate MK 2...that leaves the door open for Tyber Zahn and his minions.

I do think a small scum option is possible...

I disagree on your first point.

The presence or absence of a ship class makes little difference overall to the potential storyline that is to be explored by Disney in their capacity as owners of the Star Wars Lore.

However, the presence of third powers and other things does make a much larger difference.

Just because they were from the same original source material means precisely squat.

I mean, look at how they Origin-Changed B-Wings and A-Wings after all... There's no reason they won't do the same with something else.

I just feel that saying because they have the same origin, that the door is open for them, is stretching it a bit... One as much more far reaching complications (and thus, is less likely to be written-in) for the future timeline... A Ship class, nice and easy.

I'm of the opinion that a third faction would be a really really good thing for the game, from a GAME DESIGN perspective. A 2 doctrine system is always very vulnerable to slipping into stagnant 2 or so per side "optimal" build paths (which we see all the time, sure there are a TON of options but optimal competitive options are very limited and tend to fit within a very few archetypes). It's the competitive equivalent of a coin flip. Adding a third faction can make it a rock-paper-scisors equivalent. The more difficult it is to have an optimal build that is competitive or works against most other optimal builds, the more dynamic the meta can become and the higher the "skill cap" goes for the game (also harder to balance, but that's up to the dev).

In effect, a well designed third faction could encourage balanced list building by removing some of the efficiency from min maxing.

As to my opinion on WHO the third faction can be? I almost don't care.

Correct me if I'm wrong (i'm probably wrong) but in the post-OT new cannon are there not 4 factions? You have the New Republic, the Resistance, the Imperial Remnant and the First Order.

I thought the NR is aligned to the resistance but is not the same entity, the IR is in an uneasy peace with the republic and the FO is a group of Imperial loyalist extremists that have exploited the outer rim to expand to the point where they could hit out at the NR (whole point of the starkiller base was to hit the NR fleet "in port" sort of thing as it appears the FO doesn't have the punch to go toe to toe with the NR?).

FFG could easilly release a second core set that is FO/Resistance and in a stroke double the factions, add new objectives, rebrand the original stuff as "Remnant" and "New Republic" and even have rules for sharing elements between aligned factions.

Yeah I might have the cannon of these factions mixed up, IDGAF I really just think more strategic vectors if well balanced will make for a stronger game...

They could also just make the third faction The First Order. I imagine they have at least their big bad star destroyer, their own Tie fighter variant and possibly more coming soon.

I can see where an Imperial Remnant might at times clash with their extremist splinter and they make a perfectly acceptable and logical faction.

Mmm...I think a new faction isn't needed at all for what some of you are proposing. Consider: there is no reason in a friendly game that you can't have Imps versus Imps or Rebel versus Rebel. Imp vs Imp could be IR warlords slugging it out. Or even a traitor fleet versus loyalists. Rebel vs Rebel is your "scum, pirate, or mercenary" fleet hunting down those pesky Rebels. Or Rebels trying to clear out a nest of scum and villains to put in a new hidden base.

In friendly games you can even play the ships in different factions, or play ships that aren't even FFG issue. You're only limited by yourself the folks you play with.

The only place you can't do these things is in Tourney. So if you're looking for an "official" third faction, what you should really be asking is "Does Tourney play need another faction?"

Mmm...I think a new faction isn't needed at all for what some of you are proposing. Consider: there is no reason in a friendly game that you can't have Imps versus Imps or Rebel versus Rebel. Imp vs Imp could be IR warlords slugging it out. Or even a traitor fleet versus loyalists. Rebel vs Rebel is your "scum, pirate, or mercenary" fleet hunting down those pesky Rebels. Or Rebels trying to clear out a nest of scum and villains to put in a new hidden base.

In friendly games you can even play the ships in different factions, or play ships that aren't even FFG issue. You're only limited by yourself the folks you play with.

The only place you can't do these things is in Tourney. So if you're looking for an "official" third faction, what you should really be asking is "Does Tourney play need another faction?"

Kinda think I answered that already...

They could also just make the third faction The First Order. I imagine they have at least their big bad star destroyer, their own Tie fighter variant and possibly more coming soon.

I can see where an Imperial Remnant might at times clash with their extremist splinter and they make a perfectly acceptable and logical faction.

Very reasonable thinking, as well from a marketing perspective. With new Episodes in cinemas every year you might sell a FO faction easier than some scum&villains most younger fans dont know much about.

However, what would the FO bring to the table that substantially differs from our good old Empire? How to reasonably build another triangle shaped star destroyer that contrasts enough to VSD and ISD to give a unique playstyle.

Kinda think I answered that already...

They could also just make the third faction The First Order. I imagine they have at least their big bad star destroyer, their own Tie fighter variant and possibly more coming soon.

I can see where an Imperial Remnant might at times clash with their extremist splinter and they make a perfectly acceptable and logical faction.

Very reasonable thinking, as well from a marketing perspective. With new Episodes in cinemas every year you might sell a FO faction easier than some scum&villains most younger fans dont know much about.

However, what would the FO bring to the table that substantially differs from our good old Empire? How to reasonably build another triangle shaped star destroyer that contrasts enough to VSD and ISD to give a unique playstyle.

All good questions.

I would say that FO would focus on very few but very powerful large based ships supported by their swarms of bigger, tougher, special forces ties and maybe flotillas of yet to be revealed ships.

They would be squadron masters with maybe 1 large based ship per fleet making sense. Their SDs would be more balanced on firepower on the front and sides meaning that double arcing would be key and it would have a high squadron value and be more points hog than ISD. They maybe can have Admirals that increase the squadron point cap or otherwise buff squads and flotillas.

Hell, I don't know. If FFG realizes there needs to be a third faction, they are MUCH better equipped to figure out how to kit it out.

Kinda think I answered that already...

No. Not really, you didn't. You said "In effect, a well designed third faction could encourage balanced list building by removing some of the efficiency from min maxing." A valid opinion to be sure. But the exact same thing is easily accomplished by "fixing" the factions that exist instead of just adding another faction. It is ships, characters, and upgrades that create strategies, not how many factions you dole them out to. Two well designed factions with multiple strengths can do everything you're talking about, and in some respects do it better. I think your "rock, paper, scissors" analogy is likely an apt one. Remember, each of those only wins against one of the other two. If the existing two factions fall stagnant into a set min max build, what reason is there to believe that a third faction released by the exact same designers would not end up with exactly the same issue? The answer is none. It would turn into "Oh, he's playing scum, it'll be this list or that list, so I have to play this or that. Oh, she's playing Imperial, so I have to use this list or that. Etc. Oh, and I have to buy like -- six of every ship for my faction so that I can remain competitive and counter what the other two factions can do now."

It's all well and good for each faction to have it's own thematic elements, but I think the look is good enough. An active military notices gaping holes in their arsenals and works to fill them. I'd much rather see both existing factions filled out with the roles they are missing, giving both sides multiple "max" builds and strategies than see a totally unnecessary third faction added. For myself, a huge reason I even bought into the game was because the majority of ship designs are ones I know and love, and I can tell you with near absolute assurance that if a third faction was released, I wouldn't buy a single ship from it. Honestly, I suspect I'm not alone in that.

Casual players can already "create" their own "factions" in friendly games so if they want it, arguably they already have it. The only place you don't is at Tourney level.

Hence my closing point from before: "Does Tourney play need another faction?"

again, YES it does.

I'm a tourney player. I feel that competitive play gives the game structure and context. As such, to me, balance and how fun the game is from an abstract and not fluff point of view is very important.

The very POINT of tournaments is you CAN'T say "oh, he's bringing this, i'll have to bring that" you have to build a list and show up with it ready to take all comers. If a more R-P-S system is set up with another faction all of a sudden the standard tropes and min max lists maybe don't work so well in AS MANY cases. The reason certain Archetypes arise is that in a context where you are blind to what you will be fighting (tournaments) people build to synergize advantages and when they do this to extremes they end up with what I call Min/Max lists.

It's no accident that most miniatures games have more than 2 factions and despite what the cynics will say it isn't just to sell more miniatures, it's to defeat stagnant metas (which are competitive play killers). Stagnant metas devolve a game and prune a significant portion of the player agency out of competitive list building. Sure, as a casual player you don't need to care! You can take your ISD and pretend its the Starship Enterprise and Tie Squadrons are space unicorns from Venus, go right ahead! You can also sulk in a corner and never ever buy the third faction because its not space-wizard enough for you, go right ahead! As a casual player you don't need context or structure. I, however, am already getting tired of the 4 fleets you have to bring to tourneys.

I, however, am already getting tired of the 4 fleets you have to bring to tourneys.

Unfortunately, your argument, although well written (and I agree with in basis) - is flawed by one concept...

We're waiting on releases.

The thing is, you don't necessarily need a 3rd faction to break out of a Stagnant meta. You just need releases.

The problem isn't the fact there's not enough factional variety - there's just not enough variety.

The very problem you stated will be changed by any release - its not so much an argument for more factions, its an argument for more things, of which a faction may be a part of, rather than must be a part of

Am I for more releases? Certainly! Oh, Gods above and Below, Yes... I am after more Releases and more variety...

But that doesn't have to come as a faction for me to be happy, or even content with the variety changes...

I personally believe that Flotillas and their associated Fleet Support will be massive shifting and upheaval of the Metas we have all generated in our areas... And for that, I'm going to be very thankful when it arrives.

I, however, am already getting tired of the 4 fleets you have to bring to tourneys.

Unfortunately, your argument, although well written (and I agree with in basis) - is flawed by one concept...

We're waiting on releases.

The thing is, you don't necessarily need a 3rd faction to break out of a Stagnant meta. You just need releases.

The problem isn't the fact there's not enough factional variety - there's just not enough variety.

The very problem you stated will be changed by any release - its not so much an argument for more factions, its an argument for more things, of which a faction may be a part of, rather than must be a part of

Am I for more releases? Certainly! Oh, Gods above and Below, Yes... I am after more Releases and more variety...

But that doesn't have to come as a faction for me to be happy, or even content with the variety changes...

I personally believe that Flotillas and their associated Fleet Support will be massive shifting and upheaval of the Metas we have all generated in our areas... And for that, I'm going to be very thankful when it arrives.

Fair point.

I would like to say, however, that the two existing factions definitely have, for lack of a better term, distinct tactical vectors. Adding more "things" will just (or should just, due to fluff constraints) further the faction along those vectors. IMO a third faction can be designed to have a perpendicular vector. Essentially a unique play style that can force a re-evaluation of the meta on a revolutionary rather than evolutionary scale.

More releases on existing factions is great, but eventually I think for the health of the game a third faction needs to happen, and there are plenty of examples in gaming in general that support this.

More releases on existing factions is great, but eventually I think for the health of the game a third faction needs to happen, and there are plenty of examples in gaming in general that support this.

And I agree with this final point to... With Emphasis on Eventually.

We don't need Scum at the moment. With Good Game Design, we won't need Scum for a Good Long Time.

And There's no way I'm Prophetic Enough to state that we'd Never need a 3rd Faction.... Just certianly, there's a good long way to go before we hit that experimental limit.

(Not Prophetic, Only Pathetic. Not Telepathic, only Telepathetic)

You can take your ISD and pretend its the Starship Enterprise and Tie Squadrons are space unicorns from Venus, go right ahead! You can also sulk in a corner and never ever buy the third faction because its not space-wizard enough for you, go right ahead!

There's no need to be rude, Hast. You seem to have completely ignored my statements about taking care of the two factions that exist rather than make a third? You hammer home stagnant metas and seem to feel the only fix is an all new faction...with all new stagnant metas. And this is making a wild presumption that the new faction won't be simply end up replacing one of the existing two. Which, by the way, it would if either of the first two aren't able to counter what it does. "Wow, Rebels suck against Scum!" "I know right? No one plays them anymore. I'm really ticked. You have any idea what I spent on that fleet? Now it's unplayable!"

So you're right back to where you are now.

Or...we could expand ("fix") the factions that exist. With new ships, new upgrades, etc. As I said.

So I'm still not seeing the need for a new faction. Every single power, character, ship ability, upgrade...literally everything that would go into a new faction can be put into the ones that already exist.

I didn't talk about space-wizards. I didn't talk about the Enterprise. I certainly didn't talk about unicorns from Venus.

I questioned why a 3rd faction would work better than simply giving new abilities, ships, and upgrades to the existing factions.

You're welcome to your opinion, Hastatior. I don't agree that you need a third faction at Tourney level. New releases, sure. Not new factions.

--edit--

"I would like to say, however, that the two existing factions definitely have, for lack of a better term, distinct tactical vectors. Adding more "things" will just (or should just, due to fluff constraints) further the faction along those vectors. IMO a third faction can be designed to have a perpendicular vector. Essentially a unique play style that can force a re-evaluation of the meta on a revolutionary rather than evolutionary scale." ~~ Hastatior

I covered that too. My comments about how every military seeks to address it's weaknesses? I would be fine with ships being released in the two factions that are visually themed but address glaring weakness of the factions' functionality. As I already said.

But either way, be it a new faction or new content for the ones we have, I have no doubt FFG will work to keep us all happy.

--edit 2.0--

You are right about other games having multiple factions. Sadly, from what I've seen, they do exactly what I was saying. There is the "one build" for a certain faction that tends to win until there is a new release or errata change. Then there is a mad dash to the new "OP build." *shrugs* Not exactly what I'd call a "fix."

It's called satire. Don't get your panties in a knot.

We will have to agree to disagree. At the end of the day, in any case, we are not the arbiters of whether or not a third faction is added or not. Personally I think it's going to happen, in fact, I would not be surprised if FFG were under pressure right now or soon will be under pressure from LFL to incorporate FO stuff. Come episode 8 it will probably be virtually unavoidable. At that point, will it even make sense to mix Old Empire/Imperial Remnant stuff with the similar but distinct First Order stuff? Or will it make more sense thematically to have a Republic and a FO faction? FFG will be pressured and it's a decision they will need to make.

All wings report in!

It's called satire. Don't get your panties in a knot.

We will have to agree to disagree. At the end of the day, in any case, we are not the arbiters of whether or not a third faction is added or not. Personally I think it's going to happen, in fact, I would not be surprised if FFG were under pressure right now or soon will be under pressure from LFL to incorporate FO stuff. Come episode 8 it will probably be virtually unavoidable. At that point, will it even make sense to mix Old Empire/Imperial Remnant stuff with the similar but distinct First Order stuff? Or will it make more sense thematically to have a Republic and a FO faction? FFG will be pressured and it's a decision they will need to make.

Well, if you take X-Wing as the Precedence at that... Then... Adding the First Order and the Resistance wasn't really adding a New Faction. I mean, Nominally, it did... But those factions were immediately compatible with their previous contemporaries... First Order and Resistance just added to Empire and Rebel Alliance...

It's called satire. Don't get your panties in a knot.

We will have to agree to disagree. At the end of the day, in any case, we are not the arbiters of whether or not a third faction is added or not. Personally I think it's going to happen, in fact, I would not be surprised if FFG were under pressure right now or soon will be under pressure from LFL to incorporate FO stuff. Come episode 8 it will probably be virtually unavoidable. At that point, will it even make sense to mix Old Empire/Imperial Remnant stuff with the similar but distinct First Order stuff? Or will it make more sense thematically to have a Republic and a FO faction? FFG will be pressured and it's a decision they will need to make.

Well, if you take X-Wing as the Precedence at that... Then... Adding the First Order and the Resistance wasn't really adding a New Faction. I mean, Nominally, it did... But those factions were immediately compatible with their previous contemporaries... First Order and Resistance just added to Empire and Rebel Alliance...

Yeah, they could do that.

But really that would be a missed opportunity for a new core set (or even better booster set like the ones they do for x-wing) with new objectives and new faction specific admirals and upgrades.

Like, sure, you can use the VSD or ISD or whatever with your First Order Admiral, but "Ventral Cannons (+1 AS blue)" or "Tie Racks (+2 squad)" is an upgrade that is FO specific or whatever. So basically you can use some of the same bits so you don't have to buy all new EVERYTHING, but it gives an opportunity to add spice and variety and a different tactical focus.

You could have ships only the FO could use (like the new ISD and new Ties) and ships they can't use (like VSDs and Glads or whatever) so that the sides can recycle but have different tactical focus

Naturally something like this would be around the time of Episode 8 so we are talking wave 5 or 6

Yeah, they could do that.

But really that would be a missed opportunity for a new core set (or even better booster set like the ones they do for x-wing) with new objectives and new faction specific admirals and upgrades.

Like, sure, you can use the VSD or ISD or whatever with your First Order Admiral, but "Ventral Cannons" is an upgrade that is FO specific or whatever. So basically you can use some of the same bits so you don't have to buy all new EVERYTHING, but it gives an opportunity to add spice and variety and a different tactical focus.

Naturally something like this would be around the time of Episode 8 so we are talking wave 5 or 6

Oddly enough, the "New Core Set" that they Did for X-Wing with almost that Concept.... Didn't go down so well...

But, that's neither here nor there.

I don't think we'll see it for a while one way or another.

As it is... We're making a lot of assumptions about Episode VIII....

And those are Assumptions that we made with Episode VII...

With The start of Rebels Season II...

With the Mid-Season of Rebels Season II...

With the End of Rebels Season II....

With Rogue One....

Eventually, we'll be right? Right?

Scum Squadrons? I could see that happening before ships and would be that start that would be needed.

You could also play around with the faction symbols and have the scum as a faction but include Rebel/Empire icons on the bottom bar of the ship to maybe limit that ship in to just Rebel and Scum fleets. This is perhaps the main reason I like the idea of scum as it allows ships that are able to be played in a variety of situations and opens up the metagame a bit more, if we are looking at small releases with large gaps then scum drives ahead with some bigger changes because of the ability to include the one or two new ships into either fleet builds or into a third of scum only. So if we are looking at game design reasons, or metagame shake up, the bang for buck sides with the scum.

Personally I would like to see more variety in the fleets we have now, both factions just have a single large ship and a single medium ship too, so one or two more new ships would be fun to have first. But, hey, FFG calls the shots and I am here for the ride, which has been great fun right along the way.

Yeah, they could do that.

But really that would be a missed opportunity for a new core set (or even better booster set like the ones they do for x-wing) with new objectives and new faction specific admirals and upgrades.

Like, sure, you can use the VSD or ISD or whatever with your First Order Admiral, but "Ventral Cannons" is an upgrade that is FO specific or whatever. So basically you can use some of the same bits so you don't have to buy all new EVERYTHING, but it gives an opportunity to add spice and variety and a different tactical focus.

Naturally something like this would be around the time of Episode 8 so we are talking wave 5 or 6

Oddly enough, the "New Core Set" that they Did for X-Wing with almost that Concept.... Didn't go down so well...

But, that's neither here nor there.

I don't think we'll see it for a while one way or another.

As it is... We're making a lot of assumptions about Episode VIII....

And those are Assumptions that we made with Episode VII...

With The start of Rebels Season II...

With the Mid-Season of Rebels Season II...

With the End of Rebels Season II....

With Rogue One....

Eventually, we'll be right? Right?

There is a difference between hopes and assumptions. As it is we are working with neither. All we have is speculation.

You seem to have completely ignored my statements about taking care of the two factions that exist rather than make a third? You hammer home stagnant metas and seem to feel the only fix is an all new faction...with all new stagnant metas. And this is making a wild presumption that the new faction won't be simply end up replacing one of the existing two. Which, by the way, it would if either of the first two aren't able to counter what it does. "Wow, Rebels suck against Scum!" "I know right? No one plays them anymore. I'm really ticked. You have any idea what I spent on that fleet? Now it's unplayable!"

So you're right back to where you are now.

Solid argument, but I think you are missing a tiny point here. Pumping all your ideas into two factions is not automatically generating more diversity or customizability. At a certain point, you only start to minimize the differences between one ship or squadron to another. There is a finite number of stats with which ships/squadrons may vary from each other, so very soon new ships will displace older ones in competitive play. Not too many roles left out at this point, so the only thing you can add from here is ships competing for an already filled role..

With a fresh faction, you may start from scratch, build new synergies, weaknesses etc. Of cause, balancing three factions against each other perfectly is more difficult than balancing two - then again, Starcraft did it, so must be achievable.

You seem to have completely ignored my statements about taking care of the two factions that exist rather than make a third? You hammer home stagnant metas and seem to feel the only fix is an all new faction...with all new stagnant metas. And this is making a wild presumption that the new faction won't be simply end up replacing one of the existing two. Which, by the way, it would if either of the first two aren't able to counter what it does. "Wow, Rebels suck against Scum!" "I know right? No one plays them anymore. I'm really ticked. You have any idea what I spent on that fleet? Now it's unplayable!"

So you're right back to where you are now.

Solid argument, but I think you are missing a tiny point here. Pumping all your ideas into two factions is not automatically generating more diversity or customizability. At a certain point, you only start to minimize the differences between one ship or squadron to another. There is a finite number of stats with which ships/squadrons may vary from each other, so very soon new ships will displace older ones in competitive play. Not too many roles left out at this point, so the only thing you can add from here is ships competing for an already filled role..

With a fresh faction, you may start from scratch, build new synergies, weaknesses etc. Of cause, balancing three factions against each other perfectly is more difficult than balancing two - then again, Starcraft did it, so must be achievable.

I can see why you may have thought I missed it, but I assure you I didn't. I'm not talking about pumping every idea willy-nilly into two factions with no thought whatsoever to how it will effect things. I'm talking the same thought and care that Hastatior is regarding a putting into a third. Also, pumping all your ideas into additional factions doesn't "automatically" create diversity or customization either.

I agree there are a finite number of combinations possible. Where I'm confused is why people seem to think that if you slap a new faction symbol on those finite combos, suddenly we've expanded the number of combos. Doesn't happen.

You say there aren't many roles not covered, so how can you even say there is room for a new faction? By your own admission it will just be different models doing the same things with a different faction symbol on the card.

You can build new synergies in new ships for existing factions. Weakness come with them.

As for StarCraft having 3 factions, yes they do. And there are certain builds you should use for each faction if you want to win. Heck, I'll go one further. Look at MtG. 5 factions! And they can cross faction! And every year, if you want to win at tourney, there are a handful of builds that you should use. Just like there will be if they add a third faction to Armada. No matter what abilities or ships they create, I promise you there will be no more builds for it in Tourney than you already see with the factions we have. Because people will find the most effective builds, and then folks that want to win will use them. Just like they already are.

But don't just accept my word, test my position. Take your Scum ships in X-Wing, and in a friendly game, consider them Rebel or Imperial faction. Mix and match them right in with your TIES or X-Wings. Consider them "special forces" if you need a reason they can use gear or do things "normal" ships can't.

Try a few games. Then tell me they really needed to be a completely separate faction because they add nothing used as such and that without a new faction symbol on their cards, they're just pointless.

Now to be clear, I've said in the past I'd be open to a "mercenaries" type "faction" that could be employed by either side. Call this a "third" faction if you will, but I haven't considered it as such because when you deployed the ships it would be as one of the two existing factions.

In the end, I simply don't believe adding more "factions" is going to put an end to repetitive meta builds and only a few fleets at Tourney. I've never seen it happen. It hasn't in any other game I'm aware of, ranging from MtG to Warhammer. Replace old builds with the next OP build? Yep. All the time. And then everyone plays it for a year until the next OP build. Heck, adding new upgrades and ships to the existing factions won't stop that, it'll feed it. People who want to win will almost always ignore the countless possible builds to go with what gives them their best shot of coming in first. That's why you only see a few fleets at Tourney now, regardless of how many builds you could be deploying.

But that's just my opinion (and I'll stop restating it ), I certainly don't expect everyone to share it. I certainly hope that the Tourney players get the variety they desire, whether it comes as new builds or new factions.