Ok, I may have a fix for this. I am working under a couple assumptions. The big one is that everyone believes the SPIRIT of the rule is that you super laser teh Rebel base and the imps win. Agreed? At least for argument sake? If you disagree, in spirit, stop reading now.

So, to counter the rules lawyers, if they try and tell you that you haven't won yet. You super laser the rebel base, BUT, the imps can't win until the rebel base is revealed. You leave the DS in that system until you can get a ground unit there. As soon as the Imps have a ground unit in the rebel system, it is revealed, Imps win as all rules are covered, no more contradiction. If they try and mobilise, they have to reveal the Rebel base. If that happens, again, Imps win. All rules covered, no contradiction. Kinda bass ackwards and convoluted, but, so is the idea that blowing up the Rebel base isn't enough to win the game.

The other solution to the rules lawyer getting silly is take the DS and WHIP IT AT HIS HEAD FOR BEING OBSTINATE.

Isn't this exactly what I've been saying from the beginning?

And to counter the other argument about what to do with the units in the Rebel Base... Look up the rules, the units are not placed on the map until the Base is revealed. Once they are, any excess ground units above transport capacity would be removed, and of course ion cannons and shield generators. But they aren't Revealed, so they just sit there. All this is in the rules.

Tompy, I don't remember you mentioning ANYWHERE whipping teh DS at someones head. On a related note, that thing is pretty hefty for it's size. One good chunk of plastic. Maybe throw the DSUC, it has edges.

Ok, I may have a fix for this. I am working under a couple assumptions. The big one is that everyone believes the SPIRIT of the rule is that you super laser teh Rebel base and the imps win. Agreed? At least for argument sake? If you disagree, in spirit, stop reading now.

So, to counter the rules lawyers, if they try and tell you that you haven't won yet. You super laser the rebel base, BUT, the imps can't win until the rebel base is revealed. You leave the DS in that system until you can get a ground unit there. As soon as the Imps have a ground unit in the rebel system, it is revealed, Imps win as all rules are covered, no more contradiction. If they try and mobilise, they have to reveal the Rebel base. If that happens, again, Imps win. All rules covered, no contradiction. Kinda bass ackwards and convoluted, but, so is the idea that blowing up the Rebel base isn't enough to win the game.

The other solution to the rules lawyer getting silly is take the DS and WHIP IT AT HIS HEAD FOR BEING OBSTINATE.

Your ruling wouldn't work anyways. You don't reveal the base before moving. You select the new base (moving it there), then reveal the old base location. Beyond that, if you blew up the base with the DS during the last turn and didn't have time to bring in reinforcements, they'd win.

It's still an idiotic reading of the rules though, so your final solution is probably the best.

Would be kind of ironic if it turns out that FFG meant the part about having to reveal the base to win. Methinks I would houserule that one

I'm just worried that if we keep on nitpicking rules, over ridiculous situations we're going to give people undecided on the game the idea that the rules are too confusing to be playable.

Let me ask this. Let's say the interpretation that the Imperial player immediately loses the game if he blows up the rebel base without it being revealed is the correct one. Is there anyone here who would actually prefer to play it that way?

You wiped out the rebellion leadership but can't prove it. Rebels win.

Unless there's someone here who WANTS this to be the correct answer, I feel it's pointless arguing over it.

Despite earlier disagreement, this is pretty well-stated and with a generally reasonable tone.

This debate isn't going anywhere at this point, and the name-calling has gotten ridiculous. FFG has been notified and can offer correction in an errata or FAQ.

In the spirit of the above, since we have no more to be gained, can the moderators please lock this thread?

Ok, I may have a fix for this. I am working under a couple assumptions. The big one is that everyone believes the SPIRIT of the rule is that you super laser teh Rebel base and the imps win. Agreed? At least for argument sake? If you disagree, in spirit, stop reading now.

Very well said Hersh.

Thank you

I think it is pretty clear that the statement in the rules

"The Imperial player can win only if the Rebel base is revealed."

applies directly and only to the statement before it

Just going to add this to the debate as I've not seen anyone bring it up yet; the very last box on the very last page of the LtP entitled First Game Strategy states the following:

"After the Rebel base is found, the Death Star is the ultimate weapon for winning the game."

Why would the DS not be the ultimate weapon for winning the game before the rebel base is found unless the Empire must reveal the base to win?

I think the intention is for the Empire to find the base before winning however FFG do need to tell what happens if the DS destroys the base beforehand and it seems bizarre that the rebels would win.

Why would the DS not be the ultimate weapon for winning the game before the rebel base is found unless the Empire must reveal the base to win?

I think the intention is for the Empire to find the base before winning however FFG do need to tell what happens if the DS destroys the base beforehand and it seems bizarre that the rebels would win.

Also, there's a key difference between knowing where the rebel base is and revealing it. Let's say you're Tarkin. You've allowed Princess Leia to be rescued after planting a tracking beacon on her rescuers ship. You have enough Intel to eliminate a few other systems from consideration and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the rebel base is in the Yavin system. You move your death star in but--oh, kraaken, you didn't bring ground troops. You know the rebels are here. But the base still isn't revealed. And for some reason General Dodonna is an imbecile with a "let's wait and see what happens" response to the situation.

Shouldn't knowing you're blowing up the rebel base in this ridiculous (I keep pointing out that this scenario makes no sense but nobody listens!) scenario count for something? Even if you've drawn every probe droid card in the deck, the rebel base isn't forced to reveal.

I think thegeekpunk has it right. It's a qualifier to the rule right above it. In essence it's saying that if you have a navy in the rebel base's system and the base is not revealed (but has units on it) you can't say oh, I have units here and you don't. I win the game. But if the rebel groundhogs refuse to come out of their hole, blowing it up still gets you the win. Because now they DON'T have any units there and you do. Simple.

But either way, remember what I said. Any rebel base that chooses to be reduced to glitter rather than launch their fighters needs to lose.

Finally!

Hello Jeff,

If the Death Star destroys the system where the Rebel base is, the Imperials win the game. They win even if the Rebel base has not been revealed.

I hope this answers your question!

- Corey Konieczka

VP of Research & Design

Fantasy Flight Games

Thanks Tompy.

Good. Now we can put this ridiculous thread to rest.

Though I feel shame FFG was even asked since apparently no one wanted to play it any other way.

Finally!

Hello Jeff,

If the Death Star destroys the system where the Rebel base is, the Imperials win the game. They win even if the Rebel base has not been revealed.

I hope this answers your question!

- Corey Konieczka

VP of Research & Design

Fantasy Flight Games

Would you mind posting this in the rules response thread? Thanks.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/217120-official-rules-responses/

Finally!

Hello Jeff,

If the Death Star destroys the system where the Rebel base is, the Imperials win the game. They win even if the Rebel base has not been revealed.

I hope this answers your question!

- Corey Konieczka

VP of Research & Design

Fantasy Flight Games

Finally!

Hello Jeff,

If the Death Star destroys the system where the Rebel base is, the Imperials win the game. They win even if the Rebel base has not been revealed.

I hope this answers your question!

- Corey Konieczka

VP of Research & Design

Fantasy Flight Games

Even the desk did it's own mic drop!

Finally!

Hello Jeff,

If the Death Star destroys the system where the Rebel base is, the Imperials win the game. They win even if the Rebel base has not been revealed.

I hope this answers your question!

- Corey Konieczka

VP of Research & Design

Fantasy Flight Games

I can't like more than once sadly lol

Yes, it's a huge triumph to know that the situation that would likely never occur is resolved the way everybody knew it should be.