jumpies are new, utterly unique (Dat dial) and, as of yet, still poorly understood by the majority of players. This apparent hard counter better be an exaggeration, imo, because they can already be outplayed (and, going by recent regional results, they are)

The fact that they can be outplayed and can be beat does not mean they also can't have a negative effect on the meta. The exact same argument was made about the phantom.

We'll see what the next couple of regionals brings.

Thing is, the Phantom couldn't be outplayed, it could only be flown badly. Outside of that you needed PS9+ to deal with it.

As above

People love to throw out the prenerf phantom as a parralel to things that can't even begin to emulate its bull

See also: TLTs

Also, assuming U-boats get nerfed (which will probably mean ordnance will be back to being useless), I certainly hope they do give Scum something else competitive enough to face Palp Aces regularly and win.

I would be in favor of a modification slot that costs 0 that is something like.. COUNTER MEASURES.. Gain 2 AGI for this defense. Discard this card after use. EXTRA MUNITIONS can be used to add another charge to this card.

Adding green dice is never the answer to anything except a quest for disappointment

As above

People love to throw out the prenerf phantom as a parralel to things that can't even begin to emulate its bull

See also: TLTs

One of the reasons I mentioned a wait and see approach. At least in some areas so far, there are fewer viable builds than there were in Wave 7.

A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

the funny thing is, its not like palp aces changed that much from before wave 8 some people use some wave 8 stuff others dont. Its just that the jump masters not are obliterating their primary competition so now everyone is afraid to bring the lists that the aces are afraid of.

Exactly this. Palp Aces itself got more diverse because they don't need to fear to get out-PSed that much anymore. So we see Carnor, Inquisitor, Omega Leader and even Procket Valen Rudor a lot more. All of them out-PS U-Boats and since Poe, Miranda, Corran and all the rest are gone, you only have to worry about not losing against enemy Palpmobiles, where Wampa And variations of the shuttle come in.

But that is not what makes a diverse meta!

What is palp aces?

Is it any list with omicron and palp?

Is it any list with fel and autothrusters and ptl?

Because currently I see people claiming nearly every imperial list as palp aces. (Except swarms or RAC/ace)

Right now the imperial meta that keeps getting called palp aces includes omicron and yorr as shuttles, vadar as advanced, omega leader as tie fo, inquisitor and Valen as adv prototype, fel and jax in interceptors, wampa howl runner or a random academy in tie ln, and whisper in phantoms. I've seen all these ships in different combinations called palp aces and that's a hugely diverse ship listing not even including the different upgrades people use. the original palp aces was just fel, palp and vadar which isn't even the best combination anymore.

A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

the funny thing is, its not like palp aces changed that much from before wave 8 some people use some wave 8 stuff others dont. Its just that the jump masters not are obliterating their primary competition so now everyone is afraid to bring the lists that the aces are afraid of.

Exactly this. Palp Aces itself got more diverse because they don't need to fear to get out-PSed that much anymore. So we see Carnor, Inquisitor, Omega Leader and even Procket Valen Rudor a lot more. All of them out-PS U-Boats and since Poe, Miranda, Corran and all the rest are gone, you only have to worry about not losing against enemy Palpmobiles, where Wampa And variations of the shuttle come in.

But that is not what makes a diverse meta!

This

What is palp aces?

Is it any list with omicron and palp?

Is it any list with fel and autothrusters and ptl?

Because currently I see people claiming nearly every imperial list as palp aces. (Except swarms or RAC/ace)

Right now the imperial meta that keeps getting called palp aces includes omicron and yorr as shuttles, vadar as advanced, omega leader as tie fo, inquisitor and Valen as adv prototype, fel and jax in interceptors, wampa howl runner or a random academy in tie ln, and whisper in phantoms. I've seen all these ships in different combinations called palp aces and that's a hugely diverse ship listing not even including the different upgrades people use. the original palp aces was just fel, palp and vadar which isn't even the best combination anymore.

Palpaces isn't a list (like Han Shoots First or Biggs Walks the Dogs), its a list archetype. Any list with Palpatine on a Lambda and two ace-type ships is a Palpaces list.

Palp Aces is Palpmobile and usually two ships PS8+. It was pretty much Soontir and Vader as default, but with a few cheaper aces now like OL, or Inquisitor at 31pts, people are fitting in Academy Pilot or even Wampa now for a fourth ship.

Also, assuming U-boats get nerfed (which will probably mean ordnance will be back to being useless), I certainly hope they do give Scum something else competitive enough to face Palp Aces regularly and win.

Not necessarily. I mean nerfing Scouts will not happen, just countering them. But even if difficult to achieve, i think this must not mean ordnance goes back to useless! I sure hope not.

"Useless" and "not in every second list" are also two very different things! I would be okay if ordnance got used on some specialized ships that could use them very well, like Redline or Nera Dantels. But being able to take 3 tanky ships with nigh guaranteed 12 hits on one target is what is fishy at the moment!

Also, assuming U-boats get nerfed (which will probably mean ordnance will be back to being useless), I certainly hope they do give Scum something else competitive enough to face Palp Aces regularly and win.

Not necessarily. I mean nerfing Scouts will not happen, just countering them. But even if difficult to achieve, i think this must not mean ordnance goes back to useless! I sure hope not.

"Useless" and "not in every second list" are also two very different things! I would be okay if ordnance got used on some specialized ships that could use them very well, like Redline or Nera Dantels. But being able to take 3 tanky ships with nigh guaranteed 12 hits on one target is what is fishy at the moment!

Thing is, the way I see it, is hard to do something that targets scouts specifically and doesn't also affect all the other ordnance carriers .

Wouldn't the best solution be to just FAQ the scouts to 26 points base. Triple scouts now costs 3 more points causing them to drop an upgrade be it extra munitions, Astromech etc.

All this new cards, new ships, fixes, hard counters etc just seem so over complicated

ner, because it won't change the fact that most ships just kind of suck and we'll just go back to the wave 7 meta

you're still never going to see any but outlying X-wings, or small-base jousters of any variety outside crackswarm, until they get some much needed help

palp aces, scouts, brobots and the stress control before them all operate on giving rngesus the middle finger; anything that can't do that effectively will continue to not see much play and we'll just get back to griping about TLTs or something

Also, assuming U-boats get nerfed (which will probably mean ordnance will be back to being useless), I certainly hope they do give Scum something else competitive enough to face Palp Aces regularly and win.

Not necessarily. I mean nerfing Scouts will not happen, just countering them. But even if difficult to achieve, i think this must not mean ordnance goes back to useless! I sure hope not.

"Useless" and "not in every second list" are also two very different things! I would be okay if ordnance got used on some specialized ships that could use them very well, like Redline or Nera Dantels. But being able to take 3 tanky ships with nigh guaranteed 12 hits on one target is what is fishy at the moment!

Thing is, the way I see it, is hard to do something that targets scouts specifically and doesn't also affect all the other ordnance carriers .

Certainly true, but i don't see them nerfing a ship, they did never change stats or anything on a ship. The Scouts just have that massive statline and upgrade combos, which make them what they are. So they will need to really really think what they do unless they want to see ordnance disappear as fast as it came up!

Wouldn't the best solution be to just FAQ the scouts to 26 points base. Triple scouts now costs 3 more points causing them to drop an upgrade be it extra munitions, Astromech etc.

All this new cards, new ships, fixes, hard counters etc just seem so over complicated

If they were gonna fix a ships value, they can fix about 10 of them while they are at it. ORS needs to drop about 5 points. Xwings 2 or 3, etc.

"At the start of the combat phase, you may discard this card. If you do, ships at range 1-2 must discard all focus and blue target lock tokens."

Not sure what slot to put it in, or how much it should cost but that would be a fairly large counter to both U-boats and Aces.

"At the start of the combat phase, you may discard this card. If you do, ships at range 1-2 must discard all focus and blue target lock tokens."

Not sure what slot to put it in, or how much it should cost but that would be a fairly large counter to both U-boats and Aces.

It's a counter to pretty much everything.

Carnor Jax is a possibility for going against the U-Boats

"At the start of the combat phase, you may discard this card. If you do, ships at range 1-2 must discard all focus and blue target lock tokens."

Not sure what slot to put it in, or how much it should cost but that would be a fairly large counter to both U-boats and Aces.

It's a counter to pretty much everything.

It makes everything hit a little less hard and a little easier to hit but it's only really a counter to action dependent survival and offense.

Also, assuming U-boats get nerfed (which will probably mean ordnance will be back to being useless), I certainly hope they do give Scum something else competitive enough to face Palp Aces regularly and win.

Not necessarily. I mean nerfing Scouts will not happen, just countering them. But even if difficult to achieve, i think this must not mean ordnance goes back to useless! I sure hope not.

"Useless" and "not in every second list" are also two very different things! I would be okay if ordnance got used on some specialized ships that could use them very well, like Redline or Nera Dantels. But being able to take 3 tanky ships with nigh guaranteed 12 hits on one target is what is fishy at the moment!

I can plan for Triple Jumpmaster pretty easily. They can be outplayed.

Can't really do that for Palp Aces. When we nerf Fel's ability to get 3 evades results out of a completely blank roll we can talk about triple Jumpmaster being broken.

Like the stresshog, just a bunch of greedy Imperial players bitching that something can actually kill one of their aces every once in a while.

Want to know why we need hyper offense like triple Jumpmaster? Because literally every single Imperial list since the Phantom was nerfed has Soontir in it.

They can be outplayed.

Can't really do that for Palp Aces. When we nerf Fel's ability to get 3 evades results out of a completely blank roll we can talk about triple Jumpmaster being broken.

They can be outplayed.

Can't really do that for Palp Aces. When we nerf Fel's ability to get 3 evades results out of a completely blank roll we can talk about triple Jumpmaster being broken.

This is in no way unique to Soontir but if you want to keep burying your head in the sand please do. A ps2 tie advanced prototype can do it under precisely the same conditions as soontir for **** sake. Evade token, thrusters, Palpatine works on literally every ship they can access those 3 things.

A PS 2 TAP is in no way the same thing. And you want to tell me that my head is buried in the sand. K