So this came up the other day. A thermal detonator did the last damage to a ship with Atanni Minklink. Does the ship take a stress (as well as everyone else that has AML) and then die, or does he die first?
Per the card they happen at the same time, so is it up to one of the players to decide the order?
I think it would be up to the owner of the bomb card to decide the order.
Thats a tough call because its not oppsoing abilities that conflict or ones from multiple cards...it is all on the same card. The damage and stress definitely happen at the same time. I would go with the ship owner decides order just as ship owner rolls for mine damage.
I don't see any reason to make an exception to the general rule that two effects with the same timing owned by the same player get resolved in the order that player chooses.
The ship owner rolls because the card tells them to, but that doesn't make them the owner of the effect.
Proximity mine actually says 'the ship' not the owner. Thats why people have played it both ways in the past.
My take on it is this:
The Thermal Detonator goes off and deals the final damage (in the form of a card) and a stress token (note the damage and stress are at the same time and part of the resolution of the TD, so there's no avoiding it or choosing the order of the two). You've taken a stress token and in doing so triggered Attanni Mindlink, so that must be resolved as well as the destruction of the ship. Every ship on the 'link takes a stress as the initial ship gets destroyed.
The only argument I can see here is "the Attanni Mindlink is no longer active as the ship has been destroyed." But that line of reasoning is only possible if you somehow separate the timing of the assigned Damage card and stress token, which you can't because they are both assigned at the same time. This is not a case of "two abilities or effects occurring at the same time so the player chooses". This is one effect or card resolution that involves two things to complete, so they both must happen.
Edited by ParravonI feel like being mind linked to someone as they die would be pretty stressful....
My take on it is this:[/size]
The Thermal Detonator goes off and deals the final damage (in the form of a card) and a stress token (note the damage and stress are at the same time and part of the resolution of the TD, so there's no avoiding it or choosing the order of the two). You've taken a stress token and in doing so triggered Attanni Mindlink, so that must be resolved as well as the destruction of the ship. Every ship on the 'link takes a stress as the initial ship gets destroyed.[/size]
[/size]
The only argument I can see here is "the Attanni Mindlink is no longer active as the ship has been destroyed." But that line of reasoning is only possible if you somehow separate the timing of the assigned Damage card and stress token, which you can't because they are both assigned at the same time. This is not a case of "two abilities or effects occurring at the same time so the player chooses". This is one effect or card resolution that involves two things to complete, so they both must happen.[/size]
But the rule further states the only exception to a ships ability continuing are those with a time duration.
My take on it is this:[/size]
The Thermal Detonator goes off and deals the final damage (in the form of a card) and a stress token (note the damage and stress are at the same time and part of the resolution of the TD, so there's no avoiding it or choosing the order of the two). You've taken a stress token and in doing so triggered Attanni Mindlink, so that must be resolved as well as the destruction of the ship. Every ship on the 'link takes a stress as the initial ship gets destroyed.[/size]
[/size]
The only argument I can see here is "the Attanni Mindlink is no longer active as the ship has been destroyed." But that line of reasoning is only possible if you somehow separate the timing of the assigned Damage card and stress token, which you can't because they are both assigned at the same time. This is not a case of "two abilities or effects occurring at the same time so the player chooses". This is one effect or card resolution that involves two things to complete, so they both must happen.[/size]
I go with this.
My take on it is this:[/size]
The Thermal Detonator goes off and deals the final damage (in the form of a card) and a stress token (note the damage and stress are at the same time and part of the resolution of the TD, so there's no avoiding it or choosing the order of the two). You've taken a stress token and in doing so triggered Attanni Mindlink, so that must be resolved as well as the destruction of the ship. Every ship on the 'link takes a stress as the initial ship gets destroyed.[/size]
[/size]
The only argument I can see here is "the Attanni Mindlink is no longer active as the ship has been destroyed." But that line of reasoning is only possible if you somehow separate the timing of the assigned Damage card and stress token, which you can't because they are both assigned at the same time. This is not a case of "two abilities or effects occurring at the same time so the player chooses". This is one effect or card resolution that involves two things to complete, so they both must happen.[/size]
But the rule further states the only exception to a ships ability continuing are those with a time duration.
But Attanni Mindlink has been triggered the moment you receive the Damage card and stress token. Then you check to see if you have enough Damage cards for the ship to be destroyed (which it has) and remove the ship.
Given FAQ precedent on some stacks of effects such as self-inflicted damage, I would think that destroyed ships are removed only after all triggered ability stacks are fully resolved, unless otherwise stated.
My take is that you will take both. Getting the Stress token means everyone else has to get a Stress token as well. With the Stress and Damage both assigned then the game rules take over and remove the ship because it has card >= hull.
I see the situation as being identical to being dealt multiple cards worth of damage. Even if the first one would actually kill the target you're still supposed to deal all of the rest of them even if they would have no meaning. The Stress token would normally have no meaning either except that because of the mind-link it does.
My take is that you will take both. Getting the Stress token means everyone else has to get a Stress token as well. With the Stress and Damage both assigned then the game rules take over and remove the ship because it has card >= hull.
I see the situation as being identical to being dealt multiple cards worth of damage. Even if the first one would actually kill the target you're still supposed to deal all of the rest of them even if they would have no meaning. The Stress token would normally have no meaning either except that because of the mind-link it does.
That's exactly what I was thinking as well. Especially with the Damage cards in excess of what was required. You don't need the excess cards, but they are still dealt anyway.
I like it. Thanks for pretty much confirming what I thought it'd be but didn't really have evidence to support it. The dealing multiple cards is a good source as far as I'm concerned... You continue dealing cards until you're done, then you check to see if cards dealt exceed hull. Therefore you take the card and the stress and then check to see if cards > hull.
Thanks guys!