If Boba Fett is used to remove VI or Adaptability does the PS of the affected ship revert to its original number?

I believe the answer to be no it doesn't. Either upgrade card modifies to the new PS level at the beginning of the game during setup. There is no rule about changing PS during the middle of a game.

Also case in point. The Nashtah Pup is not allowed to have any upgrade cards equipped to it when it is deployed. However, if the Hound's Tooth were already equipped with either VI or Adaptability then the modified PS skill would apply when the pilot transferred over to the Pup.

If Boba Fett is used to remove VI or Adaptability does the PS of the affected ship revert to its original number?

I believe the answer to be no it doesn't. Either upgrade card modifies to the new PS level at the beginning of the game during setup. There is no rule about changing PS during the middle of a game.

Also case in point. The Nashtah Pup is not allowed to have any upgrade cards equipped to it when it is deployed. However, if the Hound's Tooth were already equipped with either VI or Adaptability then the modified PS skill would apply when the pilot transferred over to the Pup.

Yes, I'd say they do revert. VI just gives you a passive +2 PS, I don't see why removing it wouldn't change your PS back to it's original value.

The Nashtah Pup is a completely different case, because the card tells you to refer to the PS of the destroyed ship. That's why VI/adaptability are the only EPTs that affects the Nashtah Pup.

Actually, Adaptability doesn't change a ship's PS until setup. With VI you set the ship out at the new PS but with Adaptability is starts out at its original PS before being changed. It is perfectly logical that removing the upgrade also changes the PS in game.

I'm not sure how often altering a ship's PS will be the best thing for Boba to take but Pilot Level is not set in stone.

If Boba Fett is used to remove VI or Adaptability does the PS of the affected ship revert to its original number?

I believe the answer to be no it doesn't. Either upgrade card modifies to the new PS level at the beginning of the game during setup. There is no rule about changing PS during the middle of a game.

Also case in point. The Nashtah Pup is not allowed to have any upgrade cards equipped to it when it is deployed. However, if the Hound's Tooth were already equipped with either VI or Adaptability then the modified PS skill would apply when the pilot transferred over to the Pup.

Yes, I'd say they do revert. VI just gives you a passive +2 PS, I don't see why removing it wouldn't change your PS back to it's original value.

The Nashtah Pup is a completely different case, because the card tells you to refer to the PS of the destroyed ship. That's why VI/adaptability are the only EPTs that affects the Nashtah Pup.

EDIT: Yes, there are pilot abilities out there that can raise or lower an enemy/friendly ship's PS. But those skills represent outside influences onto a ship, and only temporarily. Boba Fett affects the enemy pilot on a permanent level for that game.

Is that really any different? You make the choice of effect at setup, but the effect itself is the same. I am in favor of reverting. Same would got for Kallus. He is no longer around to perform his role just as if his ship was destroyed.

If Boba Fett is used to remove VI or Adaptability does the PS of the affected ship revert to its original number?

I believe the answer to be no it doesn't. Either upgrade card modifies to the new PS level at the beginning of the game during setup. There is no rule about changing PS during the middle of a game.

Also case in point. The Nashtah Pup is not allowed to have any upgrade cards equipped to it when it is deployed. However, if the Hound's Tooth were already equipped with either VI or Adaptability then the modified PS skill would apply when the pilot transferred over to the Pup.

Yes, I'd say they do revert. VI just gives you a passive +2 PS, I don't see why removing it wouldn't change your PS back to it's original value.

The Nashtah Pup is a completely different case, because the card tells you to refer to the PS of the destroyed ship. That's why VI/adaptability are the only EPTs that affects the Nashtah Pup.

How does that work mechanics wise? The ship is damaged, Boba Fett sneaks over and removes VI, now the pilot's skill is two levels lower than it started out? Better yet, Boba takes off "Adaptability -1", all of a sudden the pilot's skill improves by a level? In the middle of a match/game/scenario?

I think you mean fluff-wise, not mechanics-wise. Mechanics-wise it's quite clear how it works; remove the card and remove the passive +2 PS bonus.

Also does it matter how it works fluff-wise? There's plenty of weird interactions in this game that don't make much sense fluff-wise (Eg: Omega leader vs HLC).

Why was this even asked.

When a card is discarded, it's effect stops. Tjis smells like the discussion of Boba Fett and Extra Munitions.

You would lose the PS change from VI or Adaptability. If you had used VI to qualify for an upgrade that required a minimum Pilot Skill (like the Royal Guard Title) you would not lose that upgrade.

It may seem obvious but bears saying here: if you used VI instincts to move up to an 8 and the ship with Boba Fett activates at 7 and strips your VI, you don't get to activate again at 6. You already went that round. The only in-round effect would be if your PS was lower than Boba Fett's ship and he stripped VI, then you'd activate at your base PS rather than the modified one.

It may seem obvious but bears saying here: if you used VI instincts to move up to an 8 and the ship with Boba Fett activates at 7 and strips your VI, you don't get to activate again at 6. You already went that round. The only in-round effect would be if your PS was lower than Boba Fett's ship and he stripped VI, then you'd activate at your base PS rather than the modified one.

This is dealt with by the FAQ around the crit that makes you PS0, by the by.

How about PS 8 Ship with Boba shoots a PS 8 (Adaptability -1) Vader and removes the EPT? PS8 Vader now goes to PS 9 (which has passed). When does Vader Attack?

Vader should attack at PS 8 since PS9 window has gone and Vader has yet to attack. If Vader is destroyed then Simultaneous Fire covers it, but if Vader is not killed it is a weird corner case that probably won't come up. I don't think the change in PS should prevent a ship from firing.

Best RAW answer is 'has missed chance to attack, tough luck'.

But this could stand to be asked to FFG directly I think.

The situation is unprecedented but I would say Vader goes next as he will be the highest PS pilot that has not activated yet. But it does mess with simultaneous fire as it breaks the line of PS 8 ships waiting to activate.

I agree, RAW, Vader would not get the opportunity to attack this round.

This does not feel, to me, to be RAI and I would have no issue with it being included in the FAQ to be that he attacks immediately.

Interestingly, isn't the rule for "discarding" an upgrade actually an instruction to flip it upside down? So if Fett crew was used to "discard" the +1 version of Adaptability, that should reveal the -1 version of Adaptability, effectively not only reducing pilot skill by one, but by two?

edit: the 2 point reduction I'm referring to is the loss of the +1 to PS, and addition of the -1 to PS, for a net loss of 2 PS

double edit : a PS 5 ship had +1 from adaptability making it PS6. Fett flips adaptability, making it PS4.

Interestingly, isn't the rule for "discarding" an upgrade actually an instruction to flip it upside down? So if Fett crew was used to "discard" the +1 version of Adaptability, that should reveal the -1 version of Adaptability, effectively not only reducing pilot skill by one, but by two?

edit: the 2 point reduction I'm referring to is the loss of the +1 to PS, and addition of the -1 to PS, for a net loss of 2 PS

double edit : a PS 5 ship had +1 from adaptability making it PS6. Fett flips adaptability, making it PS4.

It's ambigous in the Rules Refernce, because it states that if a card is flipped faceup, it's back in play, and Dual Upgrades are faceup on either side, but I think the intention is for them to be out of play...

When an Upgrade card is discarded, it is flipped facedown. The card is out of play for all purposes except when determining the total squad point cost of the ship to which it was equipped. If an Upgrade card is flipped faceup by a game effect, it returns to play equipped to the same ship.

...Particularly because

When a player is instructed to discard an Upgrade card, he or she places it under the Ship card it is attached to instead. Upgrade cards under Ship cards are out of play. Discarded Upgrade cards remain under the Ship card to which they are equipped; they are not placed into the score pile unless the ship to which they are equipped is destroyed.

Which was written with Dual Upgrades in play (there weren't any when the Rules Reference was released). This is bad news for Tomax Bren (upcoming TIE Bomber pilot), but hopfully he will be updated prior to release (or at least Errata'd, or worst case FAQ'd).

For the sake of simplifying bookkeeping the tournament rules had called for a "discarded" upgrade card to be flipped over and IGNORED for the rest of the game. This was so that it stuck with the ship so you'd get credit for those points when you finally kill the ship.

The most recent tournament rules changed that so now you put the discarded upgrades beneath the pilot card thus removing them from sight but still keeping them with the ship. It was almost certainly done to avoid potential issues with the dual upgrade cards although even the old rules stated that a "discarded" card would have no effect on the game.

For the sake of simplifying bookkeeping the tournament rules had called for a "discarded" upgrade card to be flipped over and IGNORED for the rest of the game. This was so that it stuck with the ship so you'd get credit for those points when you finally kill the ship.

The most recent tournament rules changed that so now you put the discarded upgrades beneath the pilot card thus removing them from sight but still keeping them with the ship. It was almost certainly done to avoid potential issues with the dual upgrade cards although even the old rules stated that a "discarded" card would have no effect on the game.

In that case, what is the purpose of having a dual sided upgrade card, if there's no risk to having it "flipped"? Why not just print a 0 point -1 PS, and a separate +1 PS? Don't tell me it's "product cost", those cards cost $0.00001 per. Zero increased packaging space, so shipping costs don't budge.

Going to reply to myself here...

...because munitions require them to be discarded on expenditure. So the errata was to address expended munitions no longer being "in play" and therefore unable to be flipped again and re-used (somehow potentially) ((as if munitions were OP somehow already??)) but didn't cover the existence of a dual sided card.

For the sake of simplifying bookkeeping the tournament rules had called for a "discarded" upgrade card to be flipped over and IGNORED for the rest of the game. This was so that it stuck with the ship so you'd get credit for those points when you finally kill the ship.

The most recent tournament rules changed that so now you put the discarded upgrades beneath the pilot card thus removing them from sight but still keeping them with the ship. It was almost certainly done to avoid potential issues with the dual upgrade cards although even the old rules stated that a "discarded" card would have no effect on the game.

In that case, what is the purpose of having a dual sided upgrade card, if there's no risk to having it "flipped"? Why not just print a 0 point -1 PS, and a separate +1 PS? Don't tell me it's "product cost", those cards cost $0.00001 per. Zero increased packaging space, so shipping costs don't budge.

If you are playing a single game then there is no purpose to having a dual sided upgrade card except now you can get twice as many upgrades in your package Of course in a single game you just discard the card anyway as the final score really doesn't matter much when you play to the death.

It is purely for tournament purposes where you come in with your list and MUST use that list for the entire tournament. You come in with Adaptability and now you will have two options on how to use it. There have been several threads on why you might want to be able to use both sides with the most prominent being that on someone like Vader you could use the +1 side to out PS the other PS 9 ships but if you don't need the PS 10 you could drop down to PS 8 to match up with other PS 8 ships you have to give you more freedom when it comes to executing activations and attacks.

There had been calls to include "sideboards" in X-Wing and in many ways that is EXACTLY what the dual upgrade cards would be. You put them into your squadron and then when you get to see what you will face you then get to pick which side of the upgrade you will use. In the future I expect to see Ordnance that uses this flip mechanic to change from something like an Assault Missile into a Homing Missile. In the future we may also see some mechanic that actually does flip the card under certain circumstances.

Fair enough.

Oh lord no. No sideboards.

Fair enough.

Oh lord no. No sideboards.

It had been suggested. Full on "have X number of points in stuff set aside and then make changes after you see your opponent's squadron," type stuff.

These dual upgrades seem like a great solution to those kinds of issues as you can make an upgrade that has limited use but see it played depending on what is on the other side of it. Of course I also like the "bring two lists, show your opponent what lists you have while he shows you his, then both reveal what list you will play at the same time," method of shaking things up.

If you need a fluff explanation, Boba Fett just beats you to a pulp and throws you back in the pilot seat and leaves you shaken and with PTSD. If it happens to RAISE your pilot skill because of discarding adaptation, your adrenaline is up, because you survived an encounter with Boba Fett. There you go. Done.

Regarding VI, I would argue that Boba can get rid of it, but the pilot maintains his Pilot Skill. I'm going to reference Injured Pilot to make my case. When you're dealt IP, you become PS0, not PS0+2. Which means that the +2 is already baked into your base PS. Therefore, when you have VI equipped, you're not 7+2, you're 9. And then when VI comes off via Boba, you're still 9.

No, you just apply the crit last.

Edit: because according to the faq it was the "most recent one" applied. But that's a different topic.

Edit two: ohhhhhh I see what you are saying. Hmmmmm I may need to retract it.