Would love to see Rebels get a droid that was the opposite of the Agromech. Say a 2 point R3 Astromech: When you spend a target lock, you may gain 1 focus token.

I desperately want proton torpedoes to be viable on X-wings ... it's just so thematic. It's a shame they're a complete waste still.

I'm thinking something like:

R7-D7 [ASTROMECH]{1}

Reduce the cost of equipped proton torpedoes by 2 points. When you attack with a proton torpedo, you do not have to spend your target lock.

I like how the prevailing thought is that too field an X Wing without IA is simply unthinkable. It's only been out a few months and now we can't live without?

Yeah, no. An extra hit goes a long way, but so can an extra crit.

You guys have convinced me. I'm trying out my Rebel 666 list this weekend. Garven, Dutch, and Esege, all packing munitions.

Yeah, I wish it would true, it would solve so many of my failed attempts of building a decent X-Wing Squadron. That card never should have been A-Wing and Missile-Only.

I like the idea in theory- there are a lot of ships that are over priced by the cost of their missile/torpedo slot. And generally, that pricing problem is ~2 points.

However! The chardaan refit adds 2 points to the cost of all Missiles on A-Wings. Making it work on multiple ships makes that pricing problem significantly worse.

More than that- not all ships that are over priced are over priced the same way.

(So I definitely ran with the idea, and I fea that giving so many examples might seem like piling on. I kinda got carried away with breaking the game, and deliberately created an alternate Chardaan Refit card that's maximally bad for ballance within the confines of "2 point discount, can be used on an X-Wing, can be used on an A-Wing". You'll see. It's horrific fun.)

For instance: the basic X-Wing is 1.5 points too expensive. Adding Chardaan Reifit to it overcorrects that problem.

The TIE Advanced was 4 points over costed. If you could toss Chardaan onto it, it would still cost too much. So you try to fix it. But do you fix it by giving it the X1 title and a 4 point system? Or X1 with a 2 point discount and trust the players to add the Chardaan on their own. But if you do that, you can't run this, ever:

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)

Concussion Missiles (4)

Accuracy Corrector (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 25

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

However! If you could put Chardaan onto any ship with a torpedo slot, you would be able to run 5 Gold squadron TLTs- 2 Torpedo slots means 2 refits.

And the cheapest B-Wing is suddenly 18 points. So the X-Wing still won't see table time.

10 point Bandits would be disgusting.

But not as awesomely disgusting as the 8 point Scimitar! You could fit 12.5 of those in a list. That's 72 HP per round.

And then you'd have the nightmare of a Corran Horn who is 2 points cheaper than currently- but every other E-Wing is still too expensive.

The poor Skyc would have to spend 2 points to get its 2 point break. Which is hilarious. And sadly still leaves it unplayable expensive.

Etc.

So. Yes. There are lots of ships that could stand the price break, but I'm glad to see FFG was sugrical enough to fix one problem at a time.

I like how the prevailing thought is that too field an X Wing without IA is simply unthinkable. It's only been out a few months and now we can't live without?

Well. X-Wings couldn't live without it before, but now.we have it.

Yeah, I wish it would true, it would solve so many of my failed attempts of building a decent X-Wing Squadron. That card never should have been A-Wing and Missile-Only.

2 Torpedo slots means 2 refits.

That is what the Limited keyword is meant to solve.

But point taken. X-wing fix is best suited to be done by (a) title(s) like the Defender is about to see.

It is hard for me to justify 4-Attack Torp for 4 points minus Target Lock on a 3 attack dice ship (especially when you don´t have a free modification slot for guidance chips).

I'm right there with you, but being able to have teeth at range 3 is a pretty good deal for X-wings. Who needs Integrated Astromech when your foe is already a floating pile of scrap? The thing about these two is that you will almost certainly wish you had the other. If you bring Guidance Chips, you will be disappointed when you roll 4 straight crits on your torpedo attack, making the upgrade unnecessary. If you bring Integrated Astromech, you'll have 1 hull left and they'll deal two damage making it useless. I feel like I need to fly both of these a whole bunch and see which one I prefer.

I desperately want proton torpedoes to be viable on X-wings ... it's just so thematic. It's a shame they're a complete waste still.

Maybe it is just me, but I can't see them thematic in X-Wing as I can not remember a single time they have been used against something which is not the size of a small moon.

@Punning Pundit

Nice to see someone taking me joke and going all the way with it. Ironically I now would have really like to had that refit for X-Wings and A-Wings, because it seems like it would have solved the issue. The ordnance got their "fix" far later with chips and a separate torpedo fix for the X-Wing would have been better than keeping the X-Wing overpriced for so long. Though overall it not such a big deal anyway. in my book X-Wings are meant to be bad anyway. They are the stuff that Rebels have to use, together with clone wars era Y-Wings and Headhunters because they have no access to better stuff.

Yeah trading integrated astromech weak as it is for chimps is a bad idea.

I dunno. 90% of the time, probably, but taking the simple view, one gives you an extra hit point, whilst the other does an extra point of damage.

Yes, the astromech is stopping a card, even a critical, so is probably worth one-and-a-bit hit points, whilst the guidance chips adds a point of damage that still might get dodged, or you might roll straight hits (or at least hit/hit/hit/focus) with your torps.

I'd probably think about it if taking Biggs & Wedge. Wedge already has his ability clawing away at your opponent's agility, which makes hit highly unlikely they can stop 4 hits (which with Proton Torps + Guidance Chip) you should manage. Meanwhile, Biggs is the one who has to be shot, so Wedge's durability doesn't matter so much.

The other use for the slot is flechette torpedoes. Flechettes are **** cheap, and if you're fielding an X-wing squad, you often have 4 points or so 'spare' and empty torp slots. Flechettes aren't so expensive that you're going to mourn a ship going down with them still in the tubes (assuming you're already losing a 30+ point ace, what's another 2 points), but being able to lock and fire gives you a couple of stress tokens into the enemy, hit or miss. They can be especially nasty paired with targeting astromechs - if you've ended up in a jousting match, your opponent is probably stressed - smacking him with a second stress can be lethal. Equally, it only takes one torp shot on soontir to get the magic second stress token - it doesn't have to be a good shot. Range 3 through a rock against all the tokens imaginable is fine.

Flechettes are nice for an x-wing because the T-65 has problems with manoeuvrability. It's not exactly unwieldy, but whilst better than the turret carriers, it's not better enough to hang on to the arc dodgers. Stress is a way to effectively increase your manoeuvrability by worsening theirs.

Maybe it is just me, but I can't see them thematic in X-Wing as I can not remember a single time they have been used against something which is not the size of a small moon.

So I gather you've never read the X-wing books or comics, or played the X-wing computer game series.

Dude, you're so missing out!

If you really want to use ordnance, I'd take them on the B-wing. You can take Extra Munitions, and there's even Nera Dantels.

B-wings are undercosted, so the price of ordnance is offset.

You can take FCS, or on Nera you could try Deadeye for probably the best APT delivery system in the game.

Chips or Recon Specialist + Deadeye for some silly Advanced Proton Torpedo Shots.

Chips and integrated aren't really comparable

You might not use integrated if you're incredibly unlucky and just get wiped, or if your x is in no danger which is ideal

Chips, though, just give + 1 hit on a shot that can be green diced/palped assuming the x even lives long enough to shoot it while sitting pretty without defensive modifiers

Not to mention the tiny astromech investment pays out much more than the more expensive and barely improved damage output on a single attack

I'm not trying to propose a fix, or anything, but I wonder if there are serious ramifications to allowing T-65s two modifications. The basic rookie could fit an astromech, a cheap torpedo, Integrated Astromech, and Guidance Chips for ~25 points. That seems reasonable to me.

I'm not trying to propose a fix, or anything, but I wonder if there are serious ramifications to allowing T-65s two modifications. The basic rookie could fit an astromech, a cheap torpedo, Integrated Astromech, and Guidance Chips for ~25 points. That seems reasonable to me.

Thing is it's been done and they don't like to repeat.

Wedge Antilles — X-Wing 29

Push the Limit 3

Chardaan Refit -2

BB-8 2

Engine Upgrade 4

Ship Total: 36

Sorry, could not resist.

Howare you Chardaaning when the X doesn't have a missile slot?

And more importantly, isn't an A-wing.

Maybe it is just me, but I can't see them thematic in X-Wing as I can not remember a single time they have been used against something which is not the size of a small moon.

So I gather you've never read the X-wing books or comics, or played the X-wing computer game series.

Dude, you're so missing out!

I am totally missing out on destroying Stard Destroyers, Super Star Destroyers and other capital ships with Torpedos. Even the Rogue Squadron Books use torpedoes very sparely against other fighters and if you honestly used Torpedos when flying in LucasArts X-Wing against anything but capital ships then you used them just as effective as when you equip them to FFG's X-Wing, maybe even less so. You kept them to save time against capitals, mainly because it was really time consuming to kill and ISD with just your Quad-Lasers, especially on harder difficulty levels which did not destroyed the shields completely when you killed the shield domes.

Still, I can not remember them used a single time in CANON. My memory might be off but I really can not. Can you remember X-Wing Torpedos been used against something else in the movies?

B-wings are undercosted, so the price of ordnance is offset.

B-wings are not undercosted. They are a tiny bit over costed based on their quantifiable statistics vs an Academy Pilot TIE. They have a potential for making up for that inefficiency by having several great slots.

The fact that (say) the X-Wing is even more inefficient than the B-Wing doesn't make the B-Wing under costed.

Not to mention the tiny astromech investment pays out much more than the more expensive and barely improved damage output on a single attack

Part of the problem with IA is that there aren't Astromechs that are great on X-Wings generally- though obviously there are a couple with fantastic synergy on specific pilots.

It's weird: Imagine, say, the X-Wing with the B-Wing dial, R2 would be amazing, and Targeting Astromech would be brilliant. It's the lack of stress of the X-Wing dial that makes those great mechs into mediocre options.

R4-D6 offers some dice mediation, but the likelihood of rolling zero evades on green dice at the same time your opponent is rolling 3-4 hits is... Not great. This seems like an interesting one for a Y-Wing, tbh.

R5 is another mech with a low likelihood of procing.

R5-X3 let's you discard the card to do something. Anti-synergy with IA. Hm. Maybe TLT Y-Wings or Autothruster T-70s would like it.

BB-8 and R2D2: not much green on the dial to get great use out of these great droids. An X-Wing with the Defender dial would _love_ these droids.

Stressbot: great droid. Better on Y-Wings, but great droid.

R5-K6: free Target Lock if the Green Dice smile on you.

R7: Tarn's BFF for life.

R5-D8, R7-T1, & R2F2: great ideas hobbled by the need to use an action. If there is an X-Wing Title that gives a free Experimental Interface, expect these cards to be everywhere.

R5-P9: great droid on Luke! Poe is in a better ship, and has roughly the same synergy with this droid.

So part of the problem with Integrated Astromech is that there are few X-Wing pilots who would prefer to have an astromech at all, making the IA cost a minimum of 1 point more than you should be spending on an X-Wing.

But I'm slightly surprised not to see Tarn more often.

Maybe it is just me, but I can't see them thematic in X-Wing as I can not remember a single time they have been used against something which is not the size of a small moon.

So I gather you've never read the X-wing books or comics, or played the X-wing computer game series.

Dude, you're so missing out!

I am totally missing out on destroying Stard Destroyers, Super Star Destroyers and other capital ships with Torpedos. Even the Rogue Squadron Books use torpedoes very sparely against other fighters and if you honestly used Torpedos when flying in LucasArts X-Wing against anything but capital ships then you used them just as effective as when you equip them to FFG's X-Wing, maybe even less so. You kept them to save time against capitals, mainly because it was really time consuming to kill and ISD with just your Quad-Lasers, especially on harder difficulty levels which did not destroyed the shields completely when you killed the shield domes.

Still, I can not remember them used a single time in CANON. My memory might be off but I really can not. Can you remember X-Wing Torpedos been used against something else in the movies?

You are correct, nowhere in cannon has the torpedo been a dogfight weapon. And even in EU, it was not preferred as a dogfight weapon, used almost exclusively against capital ships.

The only time it would be preferred against other fighters is if there was no expectation of facing a capital ship, and a long-range shot was needed. IE - Torpedos had active tracking with target locks and a longer range than quad lasers. When going up a against a swarm, Wedge or Corran would occasionally toss off a torpedo against the leading TIE and safely forget about it before closing to laser range with the rest.

I would guess this thread was born out of spike damaging a U Boat squad down to two ships before they blast you in a barrage of ordnance. OP was thinking about what was at the Rebels' disposal, and came upon an idea worth exploring. Or we could just let established dogma convince us it's not worth trying.

The jouster is dead now, didn't you hear? Apparently flying straight into the teeth of the enemy's guns is no longer a valid strategy. Sounds like the right time for the curve ball.

Did that moderately maneuverable, reasonably resilient ship just blast the hell out of something? Just one shot, but one less enemy ship. Maybe just a pipe dream, maybe a new way to go.

Howare you Chardaaning when the X doesn't have a missile slot?

I love that Chaardaning is now a verb, and I know what it means.

I would guess this thread was born out of spike damaging a U Boat squad down to two ships before they blast you in a barrage of ordnance. OP was thinking about what was at the Rebels' disposal, and came upon an idea worth exploring. Or we could just let established dogma convince us it's not worth trying.

The jouster is dead now, didn't you hear? Apparently flying straight into the teeth of the enemy's guns is no longer a valid strategy. Sounds like the right time for the curve ball.

Did that moderately maneuverable, reasonably resilient ship just blast the hell out of something? Just one shot, but one less enemy ship. Maybe just a pipe dream, maybe a new way to go.

You hit it pretty close. Ever since I started reading this forum (quite a while before I actually bought in) I've had a soft spot for ordnance and have wanted to make it work. Combine that with my very limited collection and instinctive desire to fly something different than what everybody else is doing; you get to the root of my question. Some ships have so many upgrades that filling them all would almost certainly be foolish. The X-wing really doesn't have a lot of good options. Just trying to find new tricks for an old ship.

To the second part of your question, I've also been considering (but haven't flown yet) a direct charge type of assault. Fly straight into the teeth, unleash the APT and trust your ship and mech to keep you alive. Something like

Red Ace

R2D2

Comms

IA (maybe a chimp instead)

APT

At 42 pts. and only 7ish HP it is WAY too expensive for what it does, but it could be fun if it ever worked. Thanks for the replies everyone.

"Switch all Power to Front Deflector Shield"

I like the idea, and it's another angle to try to make T65s relevant again. The real problem is that I think I'd rather have Y-Wings or B-Wings carrying torpedoes than an X-Wing, or Z-95s with missiles. Y-Wings seem particularly well suited to the job - they also have the nice astromech slot, they're tough, have 2 torpedo slots, and don't lose anything by equipping guidance chips. Their dial is worse than an X-Wing for sure, but for a long range alpha strike or K-turning with a targeting astromech I'm not sure how much that matters. Backed up by a cheap Z-95 with XX-23 tracers or something, I think it would be a more efficient way to get the same damage potential in a list.

T70s are a lot of fun to fly without ordnance already.

So part of the problem with Integrated Astromech is that there are few X-Wing pilots who would prefer to have an astromech at all, making the IA cost a minimum of 1 point more than you should be spending on an X-Wing.

But I'm slightly surprised not to see Tarn more often.

1 point for the essentially shield upgrade (that you can pop when you know you're getting a raw crit) is a steal regardless

you could put on r4-d6, have it never trigger and still have it be amazing value with integrated

though, really, if you're flying a stiff jouster like the X then r2 astro is a godsend

doesn't help with crappy dice, though, which is the jouster's greatest failing. Sadly, not even g-chips with otherwise unmodified torps help with that

If they make Flares and make it so they go in any ordinance slot, they'd be a good choice for X-Wing torpedo.