I'm not wasting a moment on the trollbait gender roles garbage except to say that if I we're going to draw a line on what's believable in fiction, it is utterly preposterous, given everything else we can find in a typical Star Wars story, to draw that line across blurry gender representation. How could I be like, "Death Star, good! Maverick woman?? Can not believe."

I'm just not that dopey.

I'm not wasting a moment on the trollbait gender roles garbage except to say that if I we're going to draw a line on what's believable in fiction, it is utterly preposterous, given everything else we can find in a typical Star Wars story, to draw that line across blurry gender representation. How could I be like, "Death Star, good! Maverick woman?? Can not believe."

I'm just not that dopey.

I agree entirely, as long as they don't fly under the blades of spinning lightsabers...

So weird huh? We have people coming in with gender bashing, we have people deriding movies they haven't seen because "their friend said the main character was a 'Mary Sue' and we have people claiming they already saw a movie based on a trailer that shows literally nothing about the contents of the movie. All the while crying about their "right to their opinion".

Tell you what. How about you take your 17 posts on this board and stick them right next to where you ought to keep your uninformed, trollish, special little snowflake opinion and go back to 4chan or the IMDB boards where people are interested in reading and displaying this brand of 2016 "look at me all interesting and ****"-bs?

The internet is a sad sad place some days...

I find it silly to call Rey a Mary Sue... she did nothing more spectacular than what Luke did.

Look what you did!

Let's argue about who has the biggest blaster...

Hey, look a my hands, they can't hold a small one, my blaster is so big it has a base damage rating of 10 and a Crit threshold of 2. ;P

This thread is started nice by ended up decidedly poodoo.

Sorry I had to whip out the JarJar folks.

By the way, if you'd actually like to discuss the trailer, come over to the actual on topic Rogue One thread. . . .

I am not embarrassed about reacting when people have "opinions" about race, sexual orientation or gender. Maybe I came off a bit more agressive then I wanted, but I meant what I said, it`s my opinion.

As for men and women being very different, everyone is different, I`m a man and I`m not a maverick, a loner and a risk-taker. Is it so far fetched to think not all women are the same too? Even in Star Wars....

Sarah Connor and Ripley are cool, but I love Furiosa and Rey too, they are absolutely badass. And look at all the women in Game of Thrones, they are all different, all have different personalities and drives, just like the men.

I wish we could just talk about the trailer but this is just so silly and outdated and embarrassing as a fan of this genre and franchise.

Silly and outdated? How? And, so what? Men and women are different. If you are a man and aren't a risk-taker, a maverick, or whatever, you are feminized. That isn't good, and isn't really what women are looking for in men. And women who adopt masculine qualities do so probably because there aren't enough real men in the world for them to find.

Are you trolling?

Silly and outdated? How? And, so what? Men and women are different. If you are a man and aren't a risk-taker, a maverick, or whatever, you are feminized. That isn't good, and isn't really what women are looking for in men. And women who adopt masculine qualities do so probably because there aren't enough real men in the world for them to find.

Don Draper, is that you?

My favourite writers and directors of female characters, from Joss Whedon to James Cameron say "don`t write good female characters, just write good characters".

Gender paths in writing are silly and outdated and just in place to meet old expectations and not to step on bloathed male egoes of insecure boys pretending to be tough macho-men.

Here is another male feminist writer:

I guess they are running out of male heroes in the Star Wars galaxy.

Tough noogies!

It's because the men are in a hurry to be *heroes*. Women know you can't shoot your way through everything.

I guess they are running out of male heroes in the Star Wars galaxy.

Tough noogies!

It's because the men are in a hurry to be *heroes*. Women know you can't shoot your way through everything.

You obviously never met my wife...

"You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day"

Joss Whedon is another one of my favourite male feminist writers and directors.

Ugh. This thread started out fun and has devolved. Are we ready to start taking bets on threadlock?

I'm putting 50 credits on threadlock at 10 pages!

I guess they are running out of male heroes in the Star Wars galaxy.

Tough noogies!

It's because the men are in a hurry to be *heroes*. Women know you can't shoot your way through everything.

You obviously never met my wife...

Nor mine.

I guess they are running out of male heroes in the Star Wars galaxy.

Tough noogies!

It's because the men are in a hurry to be *heroes*. Women know you can't shoot your way through everything.

You obviously never met my wife...

Nor mine.

Point taken.

Silly and outdated? How? And, so what? Men and women are different. If you are a man and aren't a risk-taker, a maverick, or whatever, you are feminized. That isn't good, and isn't really what women are looking for in men. And women who adopt masculine qualities do so probably because there aren't enough real men in the world for them to find.

I guess I am feminized because I am the primary caregiver to my 3 year old son. Hey, you know what? I'm also vegan partly because the images I've seen of what the animals go through makes me physically sick. I have empathy. I was raised by a single mother. I never had a father figure. Sadly the only men I could of had as a role model were maverick, risk-taking abusive "nerf-herders". I vowed to not be that as a child, and I don't reget that.

We live in the 21st century, and the ways of thinking in the past have led humanity to the brink - we need to change. Perhaps a little more empathy and we might have fewer wars, less bigotry and all around less being "moof-milkers" to each other.

Okay, finally slogged through all this nonsense. The only time that I didn't like gender when casting is the goddamned Ghostbusters '16 remake. Not that I have I believe that a paranormal investigations and eliminations team has to be a *****-only club, but the fact that it's not an organic choice. The original was very much a selection of best performer for the roll (that just happened to be guys), but here it very much smacks of a studio mandated, demographically tested attempted to go "Look! We're edgey! We're remaking Ghostbusters, but with chicks!"

Mind you, there's far more to be angry about with that the movie than just the all female cast. I'm angry that the movie looks like ****. The gender is a very, very tiny portion of all of that. But here in Star Wars? Yeah, grow up you sexist moron. Go spew your bullshittery elsewhere.

The thing I like best about the casting in these new Star Wars flix, and it goes as much for the men as the women, is that they aren't defaulting to the beautiful people with perfect teeth and 3% body fat. They look normal. Daisy Ridley and Felicity Jones are attractive, but they aren't 'stop a bullet train in its trax' hot. John Boyega and Oscar Isaac aren't ugly, but they aren't Calvin Klein specimens, and none of them look like heavy weight body building champions, they look like regular people.

Right. Since we're on the subject....like this post if you want to see a strong, black female lead in the next Star Wars movie.

The thing I like best about the casting in these new Star Wars flix, and it goes as much for the men as the women, is that they aren't defaulting to the beautiful people with perfect teeth and 3% body fat. They look normal. Daisy Ridley and Felicity Jones are attractive, but they aren't 'stop a bullet train in its trax' hot. John Boyega and Oscar Isaac aren't ugly, but they aren't Calvin Klein specimens, and none of them look like heavy weight body building champions, they look like regular people.

Yes! It really is refreshing!

Right. Since we're on the subject....like this post if you want to see a strong, African-American female lead in the next Star Wars movie.

African or African-American?

That right there is the problem with the term African-American... I have seen so many people call Boyega just that...

Either way I thought Lupita knocked it out the park.

Right. Since we're on the subject....like this post if you want to see a strong, African-American female lead in the next Star Wars movie.

You know, I want to see the right person for the roll (whatever that roll may be). If they happen to be black, a woman, or an albino or whatever - then so be it. Just so long as they're good and they're right for the part.

The original was very much a selection of best performer for the roll (that just happened to be guys),

I disagree, as the 80's was very much a time where real action = men and real comedy = men.

Women were niche' offshoots in both, at best. It is unlikely in the extreme that a female was ever considered for any role other than "love interest in distress" or "secretary".

Simply accepting the default is only slightly better than actively supporting the status quo.

That isn't to say that over-correction is inherently better, but a specific choice to do things "the same but different" is the sort of thinking that gives us innovations such as "Ghostbusters"... and "Star Wars"... in the first place.

"Let's not just think that men and women are equals in action comedies, let's prove it" is a laudable goal and one that I will give them a chance to achieve.

And this is relevant.

First I want to state clearly that I cannot read the motivations in people's hearts so NO ONE in this thread is being accused of what I am about to speak against. Accusations below are directed at people who think women or one other race or another have specific places that they should stay in at all times in all things. Accusations are also directed at people who not only consider "white and male" the default for "real heroes" but actively want to keep it that way.

The internet blew up late yesterday with clickbait headlines like "Some 'Star Wars' fans enraged by new female lead".

Do not stand for that.

"Star Wars" fans... actual "Star Wars" fans... need to not just ignore the racist and misogynist trolls in our midst or they will become our voice. Make noise. Be loud. Shout those a-holes down.

Take every chance you can to say "no, they do not represent me in any way".

Misogyny hurts men, too. Racism hurts everyone.

Defend your fandom.

"Star Wars" is not in danger of ruination by black stormtroopers or strong female leads, it's in danger of ruination by people who care less about "Star Wars" and more about maintaining a prime spot at the top of some imagined pop-culture hierarchy.

Those of us of many demographics and a certain age or older grew up with a steady diet of white guys we were taught to aspire to be like (and to be sure, many of them were genuinely great role models for all people), heroes of other types existed but were akin to an exotic treat for special occasions.

It's time to get over that.

Relate to heroes with innate traits you admire and don't draw a line at superficiality like race or gender.

We're sci-fi fans! We have been relating to aliens from other worlds for decades and yet draw some goofy lines among our own.

Sure, we might have soft-spots for the villains... the sith lords or the bounty hunters... but the real heroes of "Star Wars" are the Rebellion.

Let's rebel.