It's easy to get discouraged posting in here when you put up 5 different lists and none of them get a single comment, or even read.

Well, part of the problem is... well, you probably don't know how the X-Wing forum'ers like to see their threads, or even that threads like yours might already exist - in fact, unless you're posting about uber-new items in all likelihood someone HAS had thoughts on a list just like yours!

Here's the steps to getting your post read:

1) Use the search function. Put one or two pilot names from your list into the search bar and see if anyone else has come up with your list before, and what problems they had with it - and maybe comment on theirs rather than create a new one, if it's recent enough. The Search drops names with less than 4 letters, so if looking for those put "" around the name, such as "Poe", to find them. If looking for help with a specific ship (such as the Decimator), then type that in as well.

2) Put the format that the list is intended for - such as Fun, Tourney, Epic - to start with. If it has an odd number of points, also include that here.

Epic

2) Put the archetype with a colon: after it. If you don't know the archetypes, or if it's a new archetype (as in the Wolfpack/U-Boat) feel free to just put the colon in.

Epic PalpAces:

3) Put the names of the Pilot cards you're using after the colon, and if using multiples of a single pilot put the number beforehand.

Epic Palpaces: Chiraneau Soontir OmegaL 3xBlackS

4) If trying out any new tricks with Upgrade Cards (or stuff YOU think is new!) then post them after the pilot using said trick.

Epic Palpaces: Chiraneau/Fleet Officer Soontir OmegaL 3xBlackS

4) If looking for help, or having an extra amount of points and not knowing what to do with it, then put a "+???" after the title. Such as:

Epic Palpaces: Chiraneau/Fleet Officer Soontir OmegaL 3xBlackS +105

5) When typing the post, make sure to include a full list of each Pilot and their upgrades, try to describe how the squad is supposed to work, any problems you think it might have, and any card limitations that might prevent you from following people's upgrade advice.

6) When looking at the replies, remember that only some of them are of the "Lern2play scrub" variety, and most are trying to help you make it better - though each person has different views about 'better'. That's why step 2 is important, because if you're making a list for funsies to include every member of the Phantom crew from Rebels and put "Tourney" in the title, you'll attract people who (correctly) point out that it's not necessarily a winner.

Some lists combine several archetypes, but the general list of archetypes are:

Swarm: As many fighters as possible, with as few upgrades as possible. 8-TIE Fighter is the classic swarm, but Z-95s and A-Wings are also candidates. Sometimes a small swarm is included with another high cost pilot to add more bodies on the field and block important enemy ships.

Alpha Strike: Using ordnance (Torpedoes & Missiles) to deliver as heavy a blow as possible early on. Z-95s, TIE Bombers, K-Wings, Y-Wings, and Jumpmasters are all important Alpha Strike ships.

Control: By giving ion, stress, and tractor tokens, a control list tries to make an enemy list more predictable by preventing them from moving freely about and taking actions. Tactician, R3-A2, and Tractor/Ion Cannon are common components of control. Any pilot that modifies enemy Pilot Skill or otherwise hampers them, such as Dace Bonearm, Carnor Jax, or Wes Jansen, also fall under Control's domain.

Aces: This list focuses on high Pilot Skill pilots in an effort to arc-dodge and outshoot enemy lists. The higher the PS, the better. Darth Vader, Han Solo, and Veteran Instincts all feature prominently in PS-wars.

Imperial Palpaces: A list centered around using Emperor Palpatine and several of the Empire's best aces, with Palp usually hanging out in an Omicron Group Pilot (OGP) Lambda Shuttle. Common other pilots are "Wampa", Soontir Fel, Darth Vader, Omega Leader, Carnor Jax, and pretty much anyone who appreciates dice modification.

Rebel Regen: By using Miranda Donei, R2-D2, and R5-P9, this list takes advantage of the Rebel's unique access to shield regeneration. Poe Dameron, "Red Ace", and anyone with an astromech slot are commonly seen in these lists.

Any more lists? Should I format this differently, does anyone think?

(Will anyone even read this, and do I have a hope of it being stickied? Will it even help this forum even if it IS stickied? Stay tuned!)

I think this is a good idea, but those titles are looking a bit wordy. Take the 2016 World's winning list for example:

Rebel Regen: 1xPoe Dameron, 1xBandit, 1xStressbot TLT Gold, 1xY Wing

That is a massive title, and is a bit redundant because you can only have 1 of unique pilots and upgrades anyway. I like the header for the archetype, and I'm glad you said you can skip this because it can make the title too long. I would rather read this:

Poe YYZ

Fixing the title will definitely help with getting views, as "Tournament List Advice" and "What List Should I Take" are quite vague and boring. The next problem is then a matter of "How do I get people to reply to my thread?"

The problem I see most often is that the question/topic of the thread is just a bit flat. Closed-ended questions like "Is this good" will get fewer responses than open-ended questions like "How do you set up asteroids and deploy against PalpAces?, or "How can I make sure Poe makes it into the end game?"

Just my two cents.

I would also encourage any player, rookie or veteran, to describe their perceived strengths and weaknesses, how you think the squad will work and how you're uncertain. These are things that prompt discussion, and whether you're wrong or right in your initial assessment of your squad, it will help you learn something.

The more effort you put into your post, the more likely others will respond.

I think this is a good idea, but those titles are looking a bit wordy. Take the 2016 World's winning list for example:

Rebel Regen: 1xPoe Dameron, 1xBandit, 1xStressbot TLT Gold, 1xY Wing

That is a massive title, and is a bit redundant because you can only have 1 of unique pilots and upgrades anyway. I like the header for the archetype, and I'm glad you said you can skip this because it can make the title too long. I would rather read this:

Poe YYZ

Fixing the title will definitely help with getting views, as "Tournament List Advice" and "What List Should I Take" are quite vague and boring. The next problem is then a matter of "How do I get people to reply to my thread?"

The problem I see most often is that the question/topic of the thread is just a bit flat. Closed-ended questions like "Is this good" will get fewer responses than open-ended questions like "How do you set up asteroids and deploy against PalpAces?, or "How can I make sure Poe makes it into the end game?"

Just my two cents.

I disagree.

One could save space by just naming popular autoinclude combos like, '35 point Fel, RAC with Engines, Gunner, Vader, Yssanne, Predator"

But a thread title like, "Poe YYZ" tells me absolutely nothing.

You're part of the problem, that no one is willing to type in or read a single line or two of text. If I'm not mistaken, thread titles can be pretty long but past a certain point they get cut off and the tail end of them become visible when you enter the thread, so the list forum would not immediately get filled with walls of text.

Even if it did get filled with walls of text, at least the thread titles would be specific. If there was a thread titled, "Poe YYZ" I wouldn't click on it. You've barely told me anything about the build. Do they have autoblaster turrets? Does Poe have Regen? Is there any ordnance in the list? Well no of course not, these are Rebel R2-D2 green straight one to victory players we're talking about haha, but if there was a creative build in the title of the thread I'd click on it.

The problem is that many people do have creative, interesting list ideas but they're hidden behind thread titles that are "Poe yyz" or even worse because god forbid we make a title that is actually descriptive. A non-descriptive title is one thing. When literally every other thread title is just as non-descriptive as the one you just passed by no one is going to wade through them all hoping to find a decent thread.

On a certain 40K forum I used to mod, we used:

[Point Limit] [Faction] [Type: Tourney/Casual/Epic] [Name/archetype]

Example:

[100pts][imperial][Tourney][Palpmobile Variant]

Keep in mind though, list sub-forums have never been the busiest section in any wargame, that I know of.

Keep in mind though, list sub-forums have never been the busiest section in any wargame, that I know of.

Exactly, this is why we need to make sure thread titles in the SL forum don't suck so that the threads that get posted end up having actual discussions in them. No one posts here besides for noobs because they're the only ones that can get interested in a thread titled, "Poe dameron". Maybe more esteemed posters would come here and help noobs build better squads if they could tell what squad lists were in each squad list forum thread.

Because right now, I guarantee you, there is at least one thread on the first page of the SL forum titled, "tournament list?" with 3-4 or less posts in it.

I would suggest a Step Zero: Before you post a thread about a certain ship or combo, run a search in the X-Wing Squad Lists forum on the ships you are considering running or the pilot you want to run. See what has already been said about your possible list. You will learn a lot from other people's questions and answers. You will also benefit from knowing what has already been asked and answered. Then, if your question has not been addressed, you can post away knowing you have a better chance as a response to an original idea rather than a rehash of several other threads.

What if I don't want my thread to be read or commented on by a Metabator?

I read these list forums to see and inspire creative list building, not see a slight variation of the latest pop build. I think encouraging people to name archetypes in their titles start to pigeon-hole list building into those archetypes.

I'm more likely to click on something like "Do you think this would work?" than "35 point Fel, RAC with Engines, Gunner, Vader, Yssanne, Predator". The latter is just a mess to me.

If you aren't bothered to click on a thread and skim it, why should I be bothered posting my entire list in some short-hand code into the thread title? I guess I would rather have someone who is willing to process and post thoughtfully read and reply to my topic, rather than someone impulsive and can't be bothered to ignore what I've posted and instead just post their own random list which may or may not be even similar to the one originally posted (happens all the time here, and a much large issue imo).

I also liked named Squad Lists. It doesn't help you know what's in it, but when you remember the name of it, it is easier to find than a title with Fel (don't ever use Fel in a title... 3 letter words are dropped by search), Echo, Inq.

As a word of advice on Searches, use "quotes" around anything with a 3 letter word: Poe, Fel, Jax, etc. Otherwise you will never find what you are looking for.

Sozin's Imperial A-Holes list is easy to find and you pretty much know what was in it.

Same things with Fat Han, Alabaster Hippo Ballet, Three Amigos, Jonus Brothers, Trench Run, Biggs Walks the Dogs, Panic Attack, Rebel Convoy, etc, etc, etc...

Yes, I know. Naming has become a lost art. And maybe you won't understand all of them until you've played a while. That's ok. When a good list is named, and named well, we remember it much more than a list of pilots sitting in a title of an article. And you can search and find it. Good luck finding a string of pilots in a title... and I personally am less likely to look in it.

If you are new to naming, put what you want to call it (making sure it doesn't already exist as a name somewhere else), and then put what it does at the end.

Imperial A-Holes (Action Denial)

Fox and the Hound (Rebel Regen)

Jonus Brothers... well, no reason to put that one... though I expect it has changed a bit since it was first released...

I would also daresay if you saw "Trench Run (Stress-X)" you would know what the list was about. If you had "Luke, Biggs, Wes" in the title, you would still know what it was about, but you would actually know less about what it was about. But, that's my preference and I'm not going to force my preference on other people, I'm going to click around on a few that look like I might could help in and go from there...

What if I don't want my thread to be read or commented on by a Metabator?

I read these list forums to see and inspire creative list building, not see a slight variation of the latest pop build. I think encouraging people to name archetypes in their titles start to pigeon-hole list building into those archetypes.

I'm more likely to click on something like "Do you think this would work?" than "35 point Fel, RAC with Engines, Gunner, Vader, Yssanne, Predator". The latter is just a mess to me.

If you aren't bothered to click on a thread and skim it, why should I be bothered posting my entire list in some short-hand code into the thread title? I guess I would rather have someone who is willing to process and post thoughtfully read and reply to my topic, rather than someone impulsive and can't be bothered to ignore what I've posted and instead just post their own random list which may or may not be even similar to the one originally posted (happens all the time here, and a much large issue imo).

Because I'm not clicking on every post which is non-titled exactly like your thread, that's why.

And why even post a squad list thread if you're not metabating? If this forum is just filled with a bunch of "I'm an independent player and I don't need no meta, I fly what I WANT" players non-titling their thread destined to get 3 posts and die immediately, the SL forum is pointless then.

If you want to play 'fun' lists, /you'd be able to immediately see which threads had 'fun' lists in them if the threads were titled properly as I've suggested/. You'd get more discussion titling like that instead of 'fun list'.

What if I don't want my thread to be read or commented on by a Metabator?

I read these list forums to see and inspire creative list building, not see a slight variation of the latest pop build. I think encouraging people to name archetypes in their titles start to pigeon-hole list building into those archetypes.

I'm more likely to click on something like "Do you think this would work?" than "35 point Fel, RAC with Engines, Gunner, Vader, Yssanne, Predator". The latter is just a mess to me.

If you aren't bothered to click on a thread and skim it, why should I be bothered posting my entire list in some short-hand code into the thread title? I guess I would rather have someone who is willing to process and post thoughtfully read and reply to my topic, rather than someone impulsive and can't be bothered to ignore what I've posted and instead just post their own random list which may or may not be even similar to the one originally posted (happens all the time here, and a much large issue imo).

Because I'm not clicking on every post which is non-titled exactly like your thread, that's why.

And why even post a squad list thread if you're not metabating? If this forum is just filled with a bunch of "I'm an independent player and I don't need no meta, I fly what I WANT" players non-titling their thread destined to get 3 posts and die immediately, the SL forum is pointless then.

If you want to play 'fun' lists, /you'd be able to immediately see which threads had 'fun' lists in them if the threads were titled properly as I've suggested/. You'd get more discussion titling like that instead of 'fun list'.

Maybe this sub-forum isn't for you. It is sub-titled: "Experiment and theorycraft with X-Wing squad lists here" and not "Tournament List Triage".

Do you realize that the heavy tournament goers make up a very small percentage of those that buy and play X-wing?

So, constructive stuff to come out of those posts (absent butting of heads, and yes, I absolutely agree that titles like Poe YYZ is just completely non-descriptive):

Add a Step Zero to use the Search function first.

Noting if something is for fun, tournament, or other format like Epic.

I also liked named Squad Lists. It doesn't help you know what's in it, but when you remember the name of it, it is easier to find than a title with Fel (don't ever use Fel in a title... 3 letter words are dropped by search), Echo, Inq.

Grayfax, putting a popular list's nickname in the title is, uhh... Step 1. Though now that changes to Step 3.

On a certain 40K forum I used to mod, we used:

[Point Limit] [Faction] [Type: Tourney/Casual/Epic] [Name/archetype]

That looks familiar. Bolter & Chainsword?

So the revised step by step is something like:

1) Use the search function. Put one or two pilot names from your list into the search bar and see if anyone else has come up with your list before, and what problems they had with it - and maybe comment on theirs rather than create a new one, if it's recent enough. The Search drops names with less than 4 letters, so if looking for those put "" around the name, such as "Poe", to find them. If looking for help with a specific ship (such as the Decimator), then type that in as well.

2) Put the format that the list is intended for - such as Fun, Tourney, Epic - to start with. If it has an odd number of points, also include that here.

Epic

2) Put the archetype with a colon: after it. If you don't know the archetypes, or if it's a new archetype (as in the Wolfpack/U-Boat) feel free to just put the colon in.

Epic PalpAces:

3) Put the number and title of the pilots you're using after the colon.

Epic Palpaces: 1xChiraneau 1xSoontir 1xOmegaL

4) If trying out any new tricks with Upgrade Cards (or stuff YOU think is new!) then post them after the pilot using said trick.

Epic Palpaces: 1xChiraneau Fleet Officer 1xSoontir 1xOmegaL

4) If looking for help, or having an extra amount of points and not knowing what to do with it, then put a "+???" after the title. Such as:

Epic Palpaces: 1xChiraneau Fleet Officer 1xSoontir 1xOmegaL +105

5) When typing the post, make sure to include a full list of each Pilot and their upgrades, try to describe how the squad is supposed to work, any problems you think it might have, and any card limitations that might prevent you from following people's upgrade advice.

6) When looking at the replies, remember that only some of them are of the "Lern2play scrub" variety, and most are trying to help you make it better - though each person has different views about 'better'. That's why step 2 is important, because if you're making a list for funsies to include every member of the Phantom crew from Rebels and put "Tourney" in the title, you'll attract people who (correctly) point out that it's not necessarily a winner.

That looks familiar. Bolter & Chainsword?

The very same, stellar forum.

Putting the number in front of unique ships is redundant. File naming protocols are all about efficiency and logic. Imposing a file naming (in our case, thread titling) protocol is probably not going to be greeted with open arms if you try to force people to do things that they think are pointless. Some people can't be bothered to put the cover sheets on their TPS reports, ya know?

Naming a squad archetype can solve most of the problem, and listing ships helps that even further, but pedantically listing every unique quality of your list in the title will turn the subforum into a wall of text.

which title are you going to read?

Control: 1xDace Bonearm crackshot ICT, 2x Thug ICT Ion Bomb EM, 1xKa'ato Wingman

or

Control: Dace Bonearm YYZ

Both tell you a similar amount. There is control, featuring Dace, and there are 4 ships. The first title is over 50 characters long. The second title is 20. Those 30 extra characters only inform you that the list uses Ion, and the Z pilot is Ka'ato. Why bother? It is obvious that the control is ion based on the ships and named pilot.

Adding the format of the game is the right track, and will decide if you read it or not, not the excessively detailed title.

Fun Control: Dace Bonearm YYZ

Now you know for sure it is a title that you won't read, regardless of how exact the title is, and it only added 3 characters. Problem solved.

Mmm, fair point, only put multiples in if USING multiple ships? Makes perfect sense. The change is made - or will be, in a moment.

HOWEVER, and I need to make this vehemently clear, I am totally against just putting the letter of generic ships in the title.

There's a big difference between a list that uses Bandits and Talas, for example, or one that uses Academies or Blacks, or one that uses a Gold or Gray stresshog - using higher PS pilots implies different metas and different choices necessary.

Or to make it even more clear, there's a HUGE difference between using Prototype Pilots as a swarm or Green Squadron A-Wings - the latter implies use of the Test Pilot title and is a completely new kettle of piscine deliciousness.

If you type your

Putting the number in front of unique ships is redundant. File naming protocols are all about efficiency and logic. Imposing a file naming (in our case, thread titling) protocol is probably not going to be greeted with open arms if you try to force people to do things that they think are pointless. Some people can't be bothered to put the cover sheets on their TPS reports, ya know?

Naming a squad archetype can solve most of the problem, and listing ships helps that even further, but pedantically listing every unique quality of your list in the title will turn the subforum into a wall of text.

which title are you going to read?

Control: 1xDace Bonearm crackshot ICT, 2x Thug ICT Ion Bomb EM, 1xKa'ato Wingman

or

Control: Dace Bonearm YYZ

Both tell you a similar amount. There is control, featuring Dace, and there are 4 ships. The first title is over 50 characters long. The second title is 20. Those 30 extra characters only inform you that the list uses Ion, and the Z pilot is Ka'ato. Why bother? It is obvious that the control is ion based on the ships and named pilot.

Adding the format of the game is the right track, and will decide if you read it or not, not the excessively detailed title.

Fun Control: Dace Bonearm YYZ

Now you know for sure it is a title that you won't read, regardless of how exact the title is, and it only added 3 characters. Problem solved.

I like the first format better.

The second format is needlessly vague. You're going to have to type out the entire list at least once, so why not just put it in the title instead of the OP? Why is having more characters in the title a negative thing?

Again, you haven't really told me much about the list with the second format. I didn't know you had ion bombs. Ion Bombs and Dace Bonearm have some nice synergy, that's something I would have been interested by if I had known about it from the title. But since you went with a vague non-descript title, I didn't enter the thread and it died with 3 replies.

Your logic implies someone knows about the game and will disadvantage beginners. The concept of using titles like this seems a bit elitist to me. I hate click bait, but that's not a need to get anal about titles. The next step is that this will turn into a reason for people to justify not reading a thread. Just my two cents.

How about sub forums below this one;

Imperial Squads

Rebel Squads

Scum Squads

For the title format: <Type>-<Pts>-<Name/Ship make up>

example: Friendly-100-Vaders Swarm / TAdv-TFsx4

Just my thoughts. Would really like the sub forums

This discussion is already promoting ass hatterey in these forums..

Perhaps stop the elitist attitudes and accept that people come here for help. If you can't be bothered to click on someones post then don't. But don't promote that other people shouldn't either. What makes this game great is that the community isn't mostly elitist and that people are willing to help. Let's not turn this into some early form of 40K style I play but you shouldn't but I hate the manufacturer and wish I didn't play community please.

That being said some people could come up with more clear topics but those people are typically new to the forums and are the people who need the most help up front.

Your logic implies someone knows about the game and will disadvantage beginners. The concept of using titles like this seems a bit elitist to me. I hate click bait, but that's not a need to get anal about titles. The next step is that this will turn into a reason for people to justify not reading a thread. Just my two cents.

Oh he said it nicer than I did! Kudos!

I think all this discussion about titles is not that important. There's no real need for a "properly" formatted title, but some kind of description and thought in the title IS important.

For example "XYYZ", "tournament list", and "PalpAces" are not telling the reader anything.

I think any of the following titles provide enough information to tell forum browser what they need to know:

"Variant of Paul Heaver's Worlds list without TLTs"

"Help me make a good list with Poe and 3 Z-95s"

"A-wing/K-wing/K-wing squad to beat both Aces and Triple Scouts"

"[100 points][Regionals] Double Defenders squad, what are going to be my hardest matchups?"

"'Cheap Tricks' -a squad with as much underhanded Scum stuff as possible"

"Competitive Rebels: 2 Red Squadron Veterans, 2 Green Squadron Pilots"

I think all this discussion about titles is not that important. There's no real need for a "properly" formatted title, but some kind of description and thought in the title IS important.

For example "XYYZ", "tournament list", and "PalpAces" are not telling the reader anything.

I think any of the following titles provide enough information to tell forum browser what they need to know:

"Variant of Paul Heaver's Worlds list without TLTs"

"Help me make a good list with Poe and 3 Z-95s"

"A-wing/K-wing/K-wing squad to beat both Aces and Triple Scouts"

"[100 points][Regionals] Double Defenders squad, what are going to be my hardest matchups?"

"'Cheap Tricks' -a squad with as much underhanded Scum stuff as possible"

"Competitive Rebels: 2 Red Squadron Veterans, 2 Green Squadron Pilots"

I agree. I'm completely receptive of some general guidance to try and be descriptive in your title, but some formulaic equation using terminology that only experienced players understand is not a good idea in my opinion. I'm saying this as a new player. I don't know what most of those terms in the OP are. I'm not saying that the OP is trying to be elitist or anything, but this might have been an oversight.

Your logic implies someone knows about the game and will disadvantage beginners. The concept of using titles like this seems a bit elitist to me. I hate click bait, but that's not a need to get anal about titles. The next step is that this will turn into a reason for people to justify not reading a thread. Just my two cents.

Troll? Or not? Well, I'll treat it fairly.

Using a format like men would ensure that people who are interested in your post could find it, read it, and because they're actually interested in your topic would comment on it, rather than just skimming past it because it isn't descriptive.

It'd also keep people from going into click baity titles, reading the thread, and then shrugging it off as a waste of their precious forum time to comment.

it would save time all around, and would hardly be 'elitist'. How is it elitist to want clarity and get people who are interested in your topic to read it?

I think all this discussion about titles is not that important. There's no real need for a "properly" formatted title, but some kind of description and thought in the title IS important.

For example "XYYZ", "tournament list", and "PalpAces" are not telling the reader anything.

I think any of the following titles provide enough information to tell forum browser what they need to know:

"Variant of Paul Heaver's Worlds list without TLTs"

"Help me make a good list with Poe and 3 Z-95s"

"A-wing/K-wing/K-wing squad to beat both Aces and Triple Scouts"

"[100 points][Regionals] Double Defenders squad, what are going to be my hardest matchups?"

"'Cheap Tricks' -a squad with as much underhanded Scum stuff as possible"

"Competitive Rebels: 2 Red Squadron Veterans, 2 Green Squadron Pilots"

I agree. I'm completely receptive of some general guidance to try and be descriptive in your title, but some formulaic equation using terminology that only experienced players understand is not a good idea in my opinion. I'm saying this as a new player. I don't know what most of those terms in the OP are. I'm not saying that the OP is trying to be elitist or anything, but this might have been an oversight.

Which terms are giving you trouble? The type of game identifiers: Epic, Tourney, or Casual (which seems pretty clear to me)?

It's probably PalpAces, which is why I included a listing of common archetypes at the end of my post - though that could be moved to the top if it's hard to read all the way through. Frankly, wouldn't it help noobs to know that there are established archetypes and what goes into them, like swarm lists, alpha strike lists, and so on, so they have a place to start thinking about list building?

So do you disagree with my assertion that any of the example titles I listed are perfectly fine?

A set format seems needlessly complex, and isn't even appropriate for a lot of topics that might fit into this subforum. I mean, format if you want to, it's not hurting anyone, but to try and impose that as the proper way seems un-useful.