So can we please force people to actually describe their list?

For example, instead of calling your title in the SL forum, "b-wing list" like your typical noob with 12 posts, you would be forced to title it, "4x Blue Squadron, 1x Bandit Squadron".

Because sometimes I go to the SL forum when there is nothing interesting on the main forum and I'm met with a list of thread titles that literally don't describe anything about their list and all have 3-4 replies. I then don't click on any of these threads and I go back to the main forum and refresh it.

And don't take this as an attack on noobs to this forum either. If I actually knew what list their thread contained I might actually click on their thread and they might actually get more than 3 replies!

Now, whenever I have a build idea, I just put it in the main forum with a descriptive title now. I don't want my excellent idea to just drown in a wave of awful Squad List threads and get buried after getting 3 responses.

So please, force thread titles to be descriptive. If your thread title is, "AKK" or "psycho tycho list" or "what ept on Vader?" that's not good enough. You have an A-Wing, and 2 K-Wings, that tells me basically nothing about your list. You Have Tycho Celchu in a list, you've only told me about a single pilot in your list, and with any number of loadouts, so you've told me absolutely nothing about your list and I'm not clicking on your thread because there are hundreds of other thread titles equally as unappealing to me. Your cute non-descript nickname for some pilot in the game or combo does not draw me into your thread.

I want the Squad List forum to not suck. I like suggesting my own build ideas and discussing the builds of others and having a bunch of threads titled, "what tournament list?" or, "keyan and dash?" Or, "imperial swarm" make it harder to do that. I'm not going to wade through all of these thread titles in hopes of finding an interesting thread.

Anyway we can force thread titles in the SL forum to not suck?

Oh look, perfect example. A 0 response thread titled, "Poe Dameron" made by someone with 150 posts. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/216544-poe-dameron/

This person would get more responses if they titled their thread properly. It's not just to make it easier for me to enjoy the SL forum, forcing descriptive thread titles would help noobs out too.

I feel like it should be less about finding an interesting thread to you and more about helping/giving advice to new players and discussing the finer points of squads with veterans. While I can understand what you mean about the vague thread titles, the same situation happens with the main thread. These posts get tons of replies simply because more people check the main forums than any of the subforums. It's sad really, as there is a subforum designed for squad building and the threads that see more activity discussing squads are the ones on the main page. For instance, I recently recognized that there are posts submitted to the squad subforum that actually receive 0 replies and have been up for days. When is the last time someone could say that about the main forum?

Because I noticed it first with my post I wanted to check and see if this was a one off thing or a common situation in that subforum. Turns out there are several posts that just nobody replies to. People read the posts but they just choose not to take part in the discussion, which seems pretty disheartening to me. I took it upon myself to start replying to the posts with 0 replies to continue the discussion these players are trying to start.

Maybe you should post this in the Squad List forum.

I forget about the other forums. I rarely look at them... but then, I'm a noob with less than 600 hundred posts under my belt.

I feel like it should be less about finding an interesting thread to you and more about helping/giving advice to new players and discussing the finer points of squads with veterans. While I can understand what you mean about the vague thread titles, the same situation happens with the main thread. These posts get tons of replies simply because more people check the main forums than any of the subforums. It's sad really, as there is a subforum designed for squad building and the threads that see more activity discussing squads are the ones on the main page. For instance, I recently recognized that there are posts submitted to the squad subforum that actually receive 0 replies and have been up for days. When is the last time someone could say that about the main forum?

Because I noticed it first with my post I wanted to check and see if this was a one off thing or a common situation in that subforum. Turns out there are several posts that just nobody replies to. People read the posts but they just choose not to take part in the discussion, which seems pretty disheartening to me. I took it upon myself to start replying to the posts with 0 replies to continue the discussion these players are trying to start.

If every thread in there was titled like, "2x Patrol Leader, 1x Avenger Squadron" one could simply scroll down the list of threads until they found a build that interested them and then enter the thread and discuss it.

If instead that build is hidden behind a vague title like, "decimators" and there are dozens of other threads non-titled exactly like it, I'm not clicking on /any/ of them. You've essentially created a thread without a title.

Maybe a stickied thread in the Squad Lists forum titled, "Formatting Your Post To Get Read," with guidelines as to how to title a thread so it's consistent and easy to read - and easy to search so that if you're looking for help with say a Decimator, you don't have to type Deci, Decimator, Oicunn, etcetera.

To be super helpful to noobs, it could also include a brief overview of various list types (ImpAces, PalpAces, Control, Alpha Strike, Regen, Jousting, TLT, and so on), and tell them to look for threads that already exist so we don't get like 5 different newly created Palpshuttle lists in the same page that are almost identical and there's a thread titled "Palpshuttle" with 30+ posts ON THAT SAME PAGE that everyone ignored...

I recently voiced my criticism of calling a specific ship build by a colloquial name and then using that colloquium to come up with a further colloquial squad name. People were NOT fond of specificity and instead felt that any X-wing player should have to study WWII history so they can keep up with all the vagaries of squad names.

Needless to say, I'm not the least bit surprised that the squad list subforum is more or less a wasteland.

As much as I love this community, it's reverence towards puns and clever nicknames, I feel, creates a real roadblock when it comes to squad building--especially for new players who have enough to learn. Style over substance, as it were.

You're beating up the wrong perp.

Given1: New players are the only ones who use that subforum.

(Because the rest of us already know its trash and the most competitive don't share their lists until they 1st place a tournament with it. And then go and "battle report" the tournament they won. [We should get a count for the percentage chance of someone filing the info for a tournament when they're the top winner]).

(Unsnarky aside: Yes, there are some rare few people who also share extremely exciting amazing lists, but they usually do them as long batreps, or as strategy posts: SableGryphon, Shuttle tutorials, darktemplar, gersun. But aside from them, I rarely see any real strategic commentary on anything by someone aware of tournament results in the competitive level.)

The new player doesn't really know what info to put to make their list interesting to read or what differentiates it. They can hardly tell whats a good upgrade and what isn't.

Which is why they're posting.

But then the feedback they get is usually from middling/low level players themselves who also lurk the subforum.

---

Good competitive players should try and help out more in the subforum. It would also best be renamed as a List and Strategy discussion forum. Too often also I see the general forum is very low on threads that are truly cutting edge about strategy and innovation.

---

If you lurk the subforum and feel bad cuz I called you bad, sorry.

If you're still bad and want to get better, look in the tournament results threads for list ideas instead. Run those for a bit, and then you'll build better lists.

Aaand...

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/216555-how-to-get-your-post-read-title-format-guide/

It's created. If you guys wanna pop in to see if there's a better way to do it, or just to tell me more broad archetypes to include, I'd be grateful.

Helpful information to newbs would be best to include in the basic thread, and because I'm still hyped about X-Wing it seems as though I'll have time to edit it.

I have been trying to build more tactical discussion in the squad list forum for a while now because I love talking tactics, but it has only been an echo chamber so far. It is really bland because the discussion starts with "Is this good?", and the answers range from "not at all" to "take this instead". Interestingly enough, I have been logging in to Vassal to wait for post-match discussions. Top level players discuss matchups, predict the direction of the meta, and really scrutinize the upgrades and pilots in lists all the time, but it is sad because once you leave, it is gone.

Back on topic, it is a very tiresome subforum. Green Squad Leader's A Wing thread is the only one with real substance, but then again we're all guilty, aren't we? It would be great to have topics about builds there rather than the main page because threads get buried in mounds of wishlisting and other random crap.

I think the squad list forum is a bit too broad. First of all it doesn't specify what type of game are you playing. Is the squad list forum only for standard 100 point squadrons or could you post Epic and Escalation Lists as well? Is it for competitive lists or could you post gimmicky 150 point lists? I think because there is no answer to those questions people get confused as what it is used for. Many new players think that they could go there to find tournament lists or be able to be given critique on their list they made for a tournament with only the components they have as they don't have the entire collection (which almost always lands woefully short).

It might be nice if there were markers in the titles for Squad list such as competitive, epic, collection or incomplete (needs help) lists. That way there can be a subcategory to filter the squad list forum.

On a side note it would be nice to have repaint and conversion back or maybe some stickyed list in why not the squadron list.

I don't read that sub-forum but it seems a shame that, taking your word, it is full of useless posts .. when the active repaints and customs thread was removed.

So can we please force people to actually describe their list?

For example, instead of calling your title in the SL forum, "b-wing list" like your typical noob with 12 posts, you would be forced to title it, "4x Blue Squadron, 1x Bandit Squadron".

Because sometimes I go to the SL forum when there is nothing interesting on the main forum and I'm met with a list of thread titles that literally don't describe anything about their list and all have 3-4 replies. I then don't click on any of these threads and I go back to the main forum and refresh it.

And don't take this as an attack on noobs to this forum either. If I actually knew what list their thread contained I might actually click on their thread and they might actually get more than 3 replies!

Now, whenever I have a build idea, I just put it in the main forum with a descriptive title now. I don't want my excellent idea to just drown in a wave of awful Squad List threads and get buried after getting 3 responses.

So please, force thread titles to be descriptive. If your thread title is, "AKK" or "psycho tycho list" or "what ept on Vader?" that's not good enough. You have an A-Wing, and 2 K-Wings, that tells me basically nothing about your list. You Have Tycho Celchu in a list, you've only told me about a single pilot in your list, and with any number of loadouts, so you've told me absolutely nothing about your list and I'm not clicking on your thread because there are hundreds of other thread titles equally as unappealing to me. Your cute non-descript nickname for some pilot in the game or combo does not draw me into your thread.

I want the Squad List forum to not suck. I like suggesting my own build ideas and discussing the builds of others and having a bunch of threads titled, "what tournament list?" or, "keyan and dash?" Or, "imperial swarm" make it harder to do that. I'm not going to wade through all of these thread titles in hopes of finding an interesting thread.

Tried posting this in the mission control forum, but was told I was in the wrong place. Wondering what the hell that forum is for. Anyways, reposting it here.

Anyway we can force thread titles in the SL forum to not suck?

Oh look, perfect example. A 0 response thread titled, "Poe Dameron" made by someone with 150 posts. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/216544-poe-dameron/

This person would get more responses if they titled their thread properly. It's not just to make it easier for me to enjoy the SL forum, forcing descriptive thread titles would help noobs out too.

Polemik, overly dramatic, TL:DNR, and completely out of proportion and yet I still like it. If you would have told us that we have to get your PTW rants the same way, I am sure you would have gotten more lols and less "**** off you jerk".

Tried posting this in the mission control forum, but was told I was in the wrong place. Wondering what the hell that forum is for.

Really? You don't know what the Mission Control Forum is for? Maybe if you had READ THE STICKIED FORUM TOPIC before posting there it would have helped, then.

You know, especially as that seems to be what you're wanting users of the Squad List Forum to do when they post there (of course, at least they're using the right forum to post their lists in the first place)

Just saying.

Tried posting this in the mission control forum, but was told I was in the wrong place. Wondering what the hell that forum is for. Anyways, reposting it here.

Probably for Mission Control.

I recently voiced my criticism of calling a specific ship build by a colloquial name and then using that colloquium to come up with a further colloquial squad name. People were NOT fond of specificity and instead felt that any X-wing player should have to study WWII history so they can keep up with all the vagaries of squad names.

Needless to say, I'm not the least bit surprised that the squad list subforum is more or less a wasteland.

As much as I love this community, it's reverence towards puns and clever nicknames, I feel, creates a real roadblock when it comes to squad building--especially for new players who have enough to learn. Style over substance, as it were.

A roadblock to squad cloning maybe.

If youre this bored, just read all the first page threads. It probably would have taken less time than to complain about them.

Mission Control has had the unfortunate incident that "Technical Support and Feedback Forum" are addended to the name. If that was removed and just left in the sub-heading, everything there would be perfect. Sadly, this has not been seen at FFG enough to realize there is a simple fix for a confusing area.

Squad Building is it's own entity. There are some regular posters that offer god advice. Yes, way too many of the posts are too non-descriptive of title, but it's not like there is a tutorial on how to do it. In fact, I don't think anyone has written such a beast. Perhaps we should and post it in there and see if we can get it stickied... probably the simplest. Though, with my recent track record, I'm not posting any NEW thread titles any time soon... /facepalm

If we had more people taking time like Biophysical and blade_mercurial, it would be a pretty solid "new-person friendly" aspect of the community. It does take a bit of wisdom to actually step back, read what the poster is asking, and attempt to help them with where they are currently (which is usually information that is withheld or stingily given... because, let's face it, no one wants to be belittled for their creation). There are many discussions I have no business talking about, because I just don't know. A new player flying ships I have on my shelf that doesn't have 1 of each? Yeah, I can help that guy. Not as much as others, I'll admit, but I can provide assistance. It just doesn't happen as often as I would like when I am swamped at work and involved in a production at the theatre.

We also have a problem that there is soooo much information out there, that it can be totally overwhelming to a new player. For some, this is good. For others, not quite so much. It would be nice if there was a way we could know the following information when dealing with someone asking about a squad:

* Wave Joined (or How New Are You)

* Ship Collection

* To Proxy or Not To Proxy?

* Meta Format (Kitchen Table, Local Store (One-Off), Local League, Store Tournament, Serious Tournament)

Even if we knew all of that (and possibly more), how much time is someone expected to devote to helping each person out? If they proxy, it is easier and faster (which accounts for a lot of the answers). If someone is trying to develop skill and build their collection as they develop as a pilot, you almost need a coach... hmmm... a coach? Now that would be cool... not sure how we could implement a program like that, but a training program might be very useful to new players. Aside from vetting the coaches and keeping up with enrollment... ok, sounds like a lot of work...

If youre this bored, just read all the first page threads. It probably would have taken less time than to complain about them.

But that still wouldn't help the forum to be a better place to discuss tactics. Many threads in that sub-forum are inherently 'dead' because of their title and lack of clear direction. A big chunk of that is because most of the esteemed posters on this site don't post there too often. However, by bringing this topic into the daylight of the main forum, hopefully Squad Building will be a more frequented destination.

To be super helpful to noobs, it could also include a brief overview of various list types (ImpAces, PalpAces, Control, Alpha Strike, Regen, Jousting, TLT, and so on), and tell them to look for threads that already exist so we don't get like 5 different newly created Palpshuttle lists in the same page that are almost identical and there's a thread titled "Palpshuttle" with 30+ posts ON THAT SAME PAGE that everyone ignored...

Related:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/131310-new-player-quick-start-list-guide/

I'm behind on updating it for wave 8. Big overhauls are due.

It's easy to find.

1. It's in the Index of Useful Links
2. Sort that forum by most viewed. It's #1 by a massive margin.