I didnt see it as a romance. I thought it was a "Here comes a wave of approaching death, I will take comfort in my last few moments with someone who's been through a lot of S with me."

A moment of human connection, not a moment of lust.

Same here, definitely didn't see that section as romance. Which actually made me kind of appreciate the sequence more, because I was worried they were going to turn it into a romance.

Ditto. It says something about the standard of movie plotting these days that it NOT being a romantic moment was a significant highlight of the movie for me.

Yeah, sad but true.

I didnt see it as a romance. I thought it was a "Here comes a wave of approaching death, I will take comfort in my last few moments with someone who's been through a lot of S with me."

A moment of human connection, not a moment of lust.

Same here, definitely didn't see that section as romance. Which actually made me kind of appreciate the sequence more, because I was worried they were going to turn it into a romance.

Two heroes sharing their ending moments. There was some added sadness not about the romance that occurred, but about the romance that could have occurred if given a chance.

What else should they have done? Shook hands? High fived?

What else should they have done? Shook hands? High fived?

Cassian: "Well, we did it, but we're about to die."

Jyn: *thumbs up and a shrug*

Dead

Could've flashed to a scene in the Cantina in Mos Eisley them having a beer.

Cassian: "Man, that was an amazing escape"

Jyn: *smiles n raises glass*

Cut to credits.....

Yes, I saw it as a poignant moment, where they both knew they were going to die, and were unable to escape. It especially seemed to me that Cassian was very sad, because he leaned on Jyn in the turbo lift on their way down, and turned away from the wave as she watched it come. Jyn seemed to have more of the attitude "well, I always expected this one day," and Cassian to feel more "I always hoped I'd make it. This is surreal."

I saw it as a moment where they took solace in each other's company, and went bravely down to face death together for the last time.

Ditto. It says something about the standard of movie plotting these days that it NOT being a romantic moment was a significant highlight of the movie for me.

Agree totally. I actually think they use romance because its easy, not deep like some claim. You tell the audience, "They's in love!" and they go "Awww!" whereas to full express the 'love' in a non-romantic relationship is more complicated. Romance gets shoehorned in everywhere, to the point that it has lost all impact with me.

I'm a big sucker for romance, but when they sort of longingly looked at each other in the elevator I was like "no movie, please don't, they don't need this."

But then they went out like champs. As comrades in arms.

The two were basically adversaries (bit of a strong word, but my vocab is failing me atm) for most of the movie. None of them wanted to do what they were doing.

Cassian had to, because he was a soldier, and Jyn had to because they forced her.

Jyn even says "Trust goes both ways." But they never trusted each other. Depended, but not trusted.

Until Scarif.

Wich was kind of a weird transition in their relationship shortly before they departed to Scarif.

Jyn started caring about the cause through the death of her father.

And Cassian felt abandoned because the Alliance wanted to suddenly dissolve, so he joins Jyn on a suicide mission to not have his terrible deeds be in vain.

And there was a bit of a missed oppertunity I feel, where they could've explored Jyn dismissing her feelings of betrayal towards Cassian a bit more.

It felt a bit rushed but wasn't too bad.

There are certainly worse character developements in the Star Wars franchise.

There are certainly worse character developements in the Star Wars franchise.

Think about how quickly Luke gets over the horrific deaths of his aunt and uncle. It's hilarious.

There are certainly worse character developements in the Star Wars franchise.

Think about how quickly Luke gets over the horrific deaths of his aunt and uncle. It's hilarious.

Or how Leia gets over the death and destruction of her ENTIRE HOMEWORLD.

And people say Rogue One has poor character developmemt. Its there alright eapecially with Jyn and Cassian. This movie is far more subtle about it though compared to other Star Wars media.

Could Rogue One have taken ten to fifteen additional minutes interspersed throughout just to have more character development? Absolutely a resounding yes. However im satisfied with what we got.

This film once it gets going is only a week in duration. In reality you're not going to change that much as people. They simply don't have time to. Even horrible experiences take longer to sink in. What we needed was perhaps more character establishing moments.

Ten more minutes of character-focused scenes would have made the movie a slog, though. The writing wasn't that strong on the scenes we got. It's already close to the line, I feel.

Ten more minutes of character-focused scenes would have made the movie a slog, though. The writing wasn't that strong on the scenes we got. It's already close to the line, I feel.

You need to shave ten minutes to make it not be a slog? Ok, we can totally cut that 3 minute scene with the hentai brain tentacle monster bit, that served absolutely zero purpose to the story. Seriously, he brain ***** the guy to "see his LIES!", and after that, he still doesn't trust the guy, and sticks him in a cell, because he's a paranoid lunatic. So that's 3 minutes right there. You could shave out that scene in the street with the thugs from Mos Eisley, that also served zero purpose to the story, other than blatant fan service pandering. So that's another minute or so. You could cut the hologram message from Jyn's father in half, because he rambles on forever in that **** message without really conveying anything of importance at all. Seriously, if that was my ONLY method of getting information out, why would I spend 95% of it babbling at my daughter, who may or may not be alive and around to get the message. "Hey! I built a flaw in the Death Star! It's in the exhaust ports! Also, if you see my daughter, tell her I always loved her!" Boom, that's 2-3 minutes shaved off right there, and it also makes his message make more logical sense, instead of it being a bread crumb message.

You could take out that bit where Jyn is climbing the tower, and has to climb through that open/close iris portal, that serves no mechanical purpose in a structure at all. Seriously that bit was straight out of Galaxy Quest. "Why is this here?! There's no REASON for it to be here!! Whoever wrote this episode should DIE!!" So that's a minute right there at least. The series of events they had to go through to get the drive could be cut. Did we really need a 5 minute series of things screwing up just to pull a drive? I'm sure there are plenty of other bits that could've been edited to trim up the film, sadly it wouldn't have saved it from being a slog for me, regardless of what they did. That movie was bland and lifeless from the start for me. I had zero investment in anything going on, or any of the characters.

That movie was bland and lifeless from the start for me. I had zero investment in anything going on, or any of the characters.

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion but it seems to me like you need to get better at watching movies.

Kidding aside, this was an incredibly difficult movie to pull off right, considering that literally anyone who knows anything about Star Wars knew what the climax and ending was gonna be.

Wich is true for most prequel materials of any franchise. I had a huge problem with this in The Clone Wars series, where any episode that featured Anakin or Obi-Wan is basically pointless, since in the end it won't affect their depictions in Revenge of the Sith in any meaningful way. Episodes that featured the Clones or other miscellaneous characters were far more interesting as a result. Same with Rebels. If it features new characters it's just more genuine, even if that sacrafices attachability it's much better than putting Wedge on the Rogue team and knowing that there is nothing at stake for him.

In terms of pacing and structure it outshines The Force Awakens for example by a large margin, in my opinion.

You always feel like you know the agenda and why they are where they are. Much less so in TFA.

And Star Wars over all isn't really known for it's ground breaking writing and dialogue, so it being on the allegedly "bland" side didn't bother me much.

It was certainly better than jamming "I have a bad feeling about this" into it at every oppertune moment.

There was also insight in the dirty side of the Rebellion, wich we didn't really have before.

On the Action-side of things the movie really shines in my opinion. The space battle over Scarif in particular was easily the most impressive in the franchise and all of the ships were just gorgeous.

To me it was a worthy entry into the franchise.

And if you didn't like Vaders Walk Of Death, then you just don't like Star Wars.

*edit*

ps: They really could've done without the mindreading brainslug.

Kidding aside, this was an incredibly difficult movie to pull off right, considering that literally anyone who knows anything about Star Wars knew what the climax and ending was gonna be.

Wich is true for most prequel materials of any franchise.

No we didn't.

Other than "the plans get got, and get transmitted", everything else was indeterminate.

And the whole "I build a deliberate flaw in it" thing was entirely unneeded.

I don't disagree with most of your criticisms, KungFuFerret. I can see the message being rambling because the guy is trying to justify himself to his daughter. His primary concern *isn't* to get the Death Star destroyed, it's to show his daughter that he's not a willing collaborator in the construction of the Genocideomatic 5000.

That movie was bland and lifeless from the start for me. I had zero investment in anything going on, or any of the characters.

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion but it seems to me like you need to get better at watching movies.

No, they need to get better at making them.

Kidding aside, this was an incredibly difficult movie to pull off right, considering that literally anyone who knows anything about Star Wars knew what the climax and ending was gonna be.

I agree, it was a difficult movie to pull off right. I am of the opinion that they didn't pull it off. They tried, it wasn't a BAD movie, by any stretch of the imagination, but for me, it wasn't a GOOD movie either. It was just...there. I didn't find the humor all that funny, other than like 1 or 2 jokes that made me lightly chuckle. I didn't connect with any of the characters, and to this day, I still don't know most of their names. They were just archetypes in my head. "Blind Warrior Guy", "Heavy Weapons Guy", "The Pilot" (he even calls himself that more than his own freaking name), Jyn (only know her name due to repetition in adverts), and "That Other Guy".

Wich is true for most prequel materials of any franchise. I had a huge problem with this in The Clone Wars series, where any episode that featured Anakin or Obi-Wan is basically pointless, since in the end it won't affect their depictions in Revenge of the Sith in any meaningful way. Episodes that featured the Clones or other miscellaneous characters were far more interesting as a result. Same with Rebels. If it features new characters it's just more genuine, even if that sacrafices attachability it's much better than putting Wedge on the Rogue team and knowing that there is nothing at stake for him.

I agree, but then I have said, many times on this forum, that I think Star Wars is crippled by it's own fandom. They are so afraid to not put in fanservice, that they end up just repeating the same old crap over and over. They have OT characters show up when there is NO reason they should, SWTOR has every bar band be that band from the Mos Eisley cantina...every crime lord is a Hutt. If you play a smuggler, you OF COURSE have a wookie friend, and you end up with a princess as a possible love interest. Of course you go to Tatooine and Hoth, even though the point of these planets in the OT was that they were out of the way, backwater, hole in the wall locations, but are now deeply important to the Star Wars mythos, etc etc. The list goes on and on. And for me Rogue One was a lot of fanservice, wrapped up in a story they felt needed to be told, that I really didn't think needed to be told. I mean come on, blue milk? Why the heck did they need to show us blue milk? They even held the frame on the bottle of it for like 5 seconds, just to make sure you saw the blue milk. And the guys from New Hope who assault Luke in the cantina, that was totally pointless, etc etc. Every time I saw one of those, it annoyed me.

In terms of pacing and structure it outshines The Force Awakens for example by a large margin, in my opinion.

You always feel like you know the agenda and why they are where they are. Much less so in TFA.

I disagree, but that's a matter of opinion, so that's fine. You can like R1 more than TFA, I feel the opposite. TFA emotionally engaged me, had me invested in the story and the characters, R1 didn't. You are apparently the opposite direction. Fine. No point arguing opinions, as neither is right/wrong.

And Star Wars over all isn't really known for it's ground breaking writing and dialogue, so it being on the allegedly "bland" side didn't bother me much.

It was certainly better than jamming "I have a bad feeling about this" into it at every oppertune moment.

And jamming in blue milk, and the guys from Mos Eisley, and all the other fanservices in R1 were ok, but when TFA does it, it's bad? I'll agree that Star Wars rests on it's laurels too much, in writing, catch phrases, etc. Both movies are guilty of it. But for me at least, TFA didn't seem to do it as much as R1, and I was able to forget it fairly quickly because I found the story engaging, so I didn't dwell on it like R1.

There was also insight in the dirty side of the Rebellion, wich we didn't really have before.

That wasn't really a big draw for me to be honest. I never had any personal illusions about the Rebellion doing bad things in a galaxy scale war. And I didn't really require to see it on the big screen to know it was there.

On the Action-side of things the movie really shines in my opinion. The space battle over Scarif in particular was easily the most impressive in the franchise and all of the ships were just gorgeous.

It was visually impressive, I just didn't really care. That's what I'm trying to convey. I had no real investment in the events of the story. Pretty colors and flashy lights isn't enough for me to love your movie. You have to give me something to care about. And the lackluster writing, barebones protagonists with little to no backstory or character development, made me detached from their struggle. I was already pretty certain it was going to be a Pyrrhic victory before even seeing it, so their sacrifices weren't all that engaging, and the ship fight was just pretty cgi.

To me it was a worthy entry into the franchise.

That's fine, I'm glad you enjoyed it, I didn't.

And if you didn't like Vaders Walk Of Death, then you just don't like Star Wars.

I've stated in previous posts I liked that scene, but not for the fanservice of having Darth Vader in the movie. To be honest, I would've preferred he wasn't in it at all. Everything that went on in the movie seemed like a very simple Imperial bureaucratic thing, that didn't need the Dark Lord of the Sith's involvement. Tarkin and the other guy were perfectly adequate to deal with the issue. He was clearly shoehorned in because Star Wars fans, who are watching a movie during the OT timeframe, who don't get Darth Vader, get pissy, and whine on the internet if he isn't there.

I actually enjoyed this scene because it was the first time in the whole movie where I actually felt invested in the events. The nameless Rebel mooks, fighting off Vader in the hallway, got me more invested than the entire main cast in 2 hours of watching them stumble around. But that one Rebel, the one banging on the door, yelling for help, and then, in a moment's resolution, stops yelling for help, and just starts yelling for someone to take the plans, knowing he was dead, but refusing to give up on the Rebellion, even with the incarnation of Death behind him. THAT GUY, that nameless guy, who's actor is probably buried at the bottom of the cast list as something like "Yelling Rebel Guy" or "Dude Stabbed Through the Door", THAT GUY, got more emotional investment from me than anyone else.

So yeah, when I've finished your 2+ hour movie, and only, in the last 5 minutes, find one person who I give a crap about? Your movie clearly didn't hit any of my emotional trigger buttons.

I don't disagree with most of your criticisms, KungFuFerret. I can see the message being rambling because the guy is trying to justify himself to his daughter. His primary concern *isn't* to get the Death Star destroyed, it's to show his daughter that he's not a willing collaborator in the construction of the Genocideomatic 5000.

I disagree, that his primary concern isn't to get the Death Star destroyed. He became a double agent for YEARS, specifically to accomplish that very task. He even says as much in the message. That he knew they would build it without him, but if he was there, he could undermine their efforts.

Addressing the message directly to Jyn can also be viewed as a personal means of focus for Galen.

He went with Krennick (with Jyn hidden for Saw) to save Jyn.

He built in a flaw to prove to Jyn (himself, really) that he wasn't a bad guy.

He addressed the message to Jyn (whether she'd really see it or not) to show her (whoever' watching, really) that he wasn't a bad guy.

She was his point of focus in his actions, and so that's who he addressed the message to, on some level, knowing full well she probably wouldn't see it.

With Twin Peaks about to come back, it's like how some people, during the original run, theorized that Diane wasn't a real person, just a device that Cooper used when recording his notes and observations.

I didnt see it as a romance. I thought it was a "Here comes a wave of approaching death, I will take comfort in my last few moments with someone who's been through a lot of S with me."

A moment of human connection, not a moment of lust.

Same here, definitely didn't see that section as romance. Which actually made me kind of appreciate the sequence more, because I was worried they were going to turn it into a romance.

What are you guys going on about? What about the romance subplot between Krennic and the Death Star. He was so infatuated with her. Then that jock Tarkin shows up in his Imperial High letterman jacket and steals her away.

Speaking seriously, though, I liked that scene. Regrettably, it said more about Cassian and Jyn than a lot of their other scenes.

Yes, there are some things that could have cut out of the movie in order to provide some more time for the main characters to shine. But why does no one mention the completely overblown space battle. Of course it was fun to watch, and it amuses me to no end that it was mostly ships banging into things, much in the same way children play with Star Wars toys- HOWEVER, we have no idea who any of those people were. Their struggles in space had little to do with those of the people we had spent the entire movie watching. It was fluff and little more. Fluff can be fun, but it's also really distracting.

Wich is true for most prequel materials of any franchise. I had a huge problem with this in The Clone Wars series, where any episode that featured Anakin or Obi-Wan is basically pointless, since in the end it won't affect their depictions in Revenge of the Sith in any meaningful way. Episodes that featured the Clones or other miscellaneous characters were far more interesting as a result. Same with Rebels. If it features new characters it's just more genuine, even if that sacrafices attachability it's much better than putting Wedge on the Rogue team and knowing that there is nothing at stake for him.

I wish to politely (and partially) disagree. The thing I really liked about Clone Wars was that it made Anakin's character work. We got to see how he was a genuinely nice guy and a good teacher. Although neither Anakin nor Asohka (sp?) stand out in my mind as really great characters, their relationship was handled very well, and that's great, because it finally gives Anakin (well, both of them really) a reason to go completely crazy later on.

But getting back on track, this and the end of Rogue One are good examples of people having a good, respectful relationship because people NEED other people. Romance is not always required, of course, but I honestly wouldn't mind a nice subtle romance sub-plot in one of these new movies at some point. Sometimes the robots are more expressive and passionate.

WHAT?! EXCUSE ME WHAT?!

We have finally get an OT space battle with capital ships and that's overblown? I'm sorry but I will push back there that is ridiculous. And it wasnt fluff, it wasnt fluff at all. This was the FIRST battle of the Galactic Civil War, its extremely important to show that.

Scarif was protected by a planetary shield which makes complete sense considering the purpose of the Imperial facility there. So the space battle had everything to do with what our characters were doing. You take the space battle out then how do the heroes get the transmissions past the shield? The Empire wasnt going to let them go and there was no where out besides that tiny shield gate. Okay lets say you take the shield out then...what the hell was the Empire doing putting an archives filled with all of their top level construction projects and extremely important technical plans on a planet without a shield like that?

Lets say you tone down or shorten the space battle, then how did TWO Star Destroyers get so easily defeated? You start pulling at strings then things start falling apart. No the space battle was perfectly done. Honestly the third act was perfect from the moment they went to Scarif.

Also your argument that we have no idea who the people are is ridiculous as well. That's EVERY war movie. We get to know a select group of people but once the battle comes most of the participants are unknowns.

I wonder if Disney put out a presser that said we won't be having any 'fluffy' 'pointless' space battles in this Star Wars movie, if that would help or hurt box office receipts.....?