Well, this is still early in SW timeline. There's nothing to say he doesn't get promoted to Grand later.

I think we'll have our answer during SW celebration either way.

I seem to recall that Thrawn was not a Grand Admiral in TIE Fighter until round about the end.

As a point for consideration .. how much research do the movie makers put into these things? We nerds are going to over-analyse every single scene, prop, word, etc. But I'd argue we're a minority. Most people who see this film will be your average fair weather SW fan who couldn't even tell you the name of Luke's wingmen in the Yavin battle, let alone what helmets they wore.

Despite being an interesting topic of conversation ... is it possible that we're looking for something that is just simply not there? Maybe Disney just applies the Rule of Cool to Imperial uniforms, AT-AT design, character names, etc. within the design space that identifies the character's affiliation, vehicle ,etc.

Actually, they put a lot into it. Academy Awards are on the line. Plus they derive their own personal pleasure (and reputation in the film industry) from the quality of their work.

Everything you see on screen was carefully - or carelessly - put there by someone with deliberate thought and intent. Everything was designed by someone and (likely) made by someone else. And you don't get involved in the making of a film like a Star Wars movie by being sloppy.

Just for reference, based on helmet decorations:

http://imgur.com/gallery/0UGmFqc/

Wedge, Wes Janson, Davish Krail (Pops), John Brannon, and Wenton Chan are in the trailer.

I'm not sure that those helmet designs are made for entire squadrons...I often wonder where those helmet designs come from. I personally doubt that the pilots you named are the ones in that still (It would be neat if you were right, though).

Not sure what you mean, the various X-wing pilots shown on-screen in the movies indeed have their own unique helmet designs. Wedge wears the same one in both ANH and Jedi, for instance. Some of the helmets in the screengrab do indeed seem to match up to pilots from ANH; Wenton Chan and Davish Krail specifically. Others not so much; The one that is supposedly John Brannon is missing details and has the wrong color at the 'nose', Wes Janson has been discussed, 'Wedge' is hard to tell since it's not entirely clear what angle he's holding it at, but it looks like the area that's over the ears is gray instead of white. All that said, it's not unreasonable that's who these guys are, given this is very clearly the base at Yavin IV and they were all stationed there. Curious to see if they're involved at all or just background nods.

It's not like nobody's ever lost their helmet before. Or had it damaged and had to replace it or touch up the paint. Or inherited their helmet from someone who died.

Why would anyone train in martial arts at all today when we have guns?

Because it's a hobby, because it keeps you fit, because it's part of your culture, because you like it, because you want to compete in it...

People in Star Wars just get to ALSO use it in combat situations when they can.

A- The proper utilization of a firearm is a martial art.

B- The use of melee weapons can be ceremonial - think of the Pope, protected by his brightly colored Swiss Guard (Emperor Palpatine is, in many ways, an evil space Pope).

C- The martial art that you compete in, practice as a hobby, &c., is more likely to get you f___ed up. The martial art you use to defend yourself from someone while unarmed or with improvised weapons is not the martial art you learn in your average karate dojo. And most of the people with the most experience fighting people to the death while unarmed, with knives, baseball bats, or other weapons, improvised or otherwise, have never set foot inside such a place.

Remember Godzilla had a good trailer too...

Sounds like you've already made your mind up, just like the Anti-JJ crew had already made their mind up about the Force Awakens months before it was released..

Well yeah i've watched his movies before i know how this song and dance routine goes.

And i was spot on about tfa so really that's not a point against me but in my favour.

Thing is, Godzilla had solid action and characters. It was more the fact that it was based on a story trying to make me care about a giant lizard fighting a giant flying lizard that lost me and made me not like the movie. Rogue one on the other hand is trying to make me care about the Rebellion, which I care very much about.

As someone who is a long time die hard Godzilla fan the new movie was awesome and exactly the breath of fresh air that the franchise desperately needed. Edwards knows how to bring new concepts to long established franchise without loosing the core tenets of the source.

Wait, the white caped imperial officer: how are we talking about him being anyone other than Tarkin?

For me because he's wearing white and we saw him wearing virtual the same uniform from ANH at the end of RotS.

Just watched the trailer again for the umpteenth time & had a thought:

Are we sure that Forest Whitaker's character is a good guy? It looks like he's wearing a cape in the shot in the trailer. Anyone else think he might be an Inquisitor & also hooded figure in the room with the royal guards?

Just watched the trailer again for the umpteenth time & had a thought:

Are we sure that Forest Whitaker's character is a good guy? It looks like he's wearing a cape in the shot in the trailer. Anyone else think he might be an Inquisitor & also hooded figure in the room with the royal guards?

You're assuming all of that because he has a cape?

Wullf was a colonel.

Wait, when did he get demoted...I mean moved from the rank of Admiral to Colonel? He was admiarl of Anakin's flagship during the Clone Wars, right?

Is that a Kylo shuttle I see getting blown up?

Not quite

Maybe the same manufacturer, but looks like a heavy lander that becomes a base of operations..... if it's even a ship. Could just be a building, but it looks like engines in the shot.

My first thought was "two upsilon-class shuttles in copula"

My next thought was, "It totally wouldn't surprise me to see Godzilla on that beach."

Tarkin had the good sense and restraint not to wear such a silly cape.

But he wore comforterable slippers while destroying Alderaan... Although I agree it's definitely not Tarkin. To close to A New Hope for it to be Tarkin. Probably a throw away Villian, but with the White uniform it probably means he works for, is equal in rank to, Admiral Yularen, who is one of the top leaders of the Imperial Security Bureau (basically star wars version of the gestapo). And it makes sense, having someone works in intelligence protect the secret documents.

Just watched the trailer again for the umpteenth time & had a thought:

Are we sure that Forest Whitaker's character is a good guy? It looks like he's wearing a cape in the shot in the trailer. Anyone else think he might be an Inquisitor & also hooded figure in the room with the royal guards?

Whitaker vs Donnie Yen. Duel of the millennium.

Wullf was a colonel.

Wait, when did he get demoted...I mean moved from the rank of Admiral to Colonel? He was admiarl of Anakin's flagship during the Clone Wars, right?

It seems like a good idea to review the Wulf Yularen since it is likely that some people have no idea who he is, and others probably don't know his convoluted history.

As I understand it (and I could have things wrong here), in a new hope, during the briefing room scene, there was a random old guy in a white uniform. No dialog or anything, just a guy who sits there and watches Vader almost kill Motti.

Being the original Star Wars, when early EU was being created, EVERYONE in the movie got a name and backstory. Someone, somewhere (west end?) decided that the guy was the DS head of the ISB (basically the spymaster/commissar/political officer) and that his name was Wulf Yularan.

Timothy Zahn comes along and writes the Thrawn trilogy, which invented the concept of "Grand Admirals" (not unreasonable, since there were "Grand Moffs) and declared that White Uniforms were used by these Grand Admirals.

Many people not as familiar witht he more esoteric parts of the EU assumed that the guy on the DS was, therefore, a grand admiral.

Some of the people in charge of producing the Clone Wars were among that group. they figured Wulf Yularan was a grand admiral in ANH, so it would be a neat nod to the universe to put him in the show as a "mere" admiral during the clone wars.

Problem was, there was already a lot of backstory to the character as a high ranking ISB agent. So, instead of chucking some of the conflicting material and saying "this is wrong", an elaborate backstory was created to explain a character being a naval admiral, then retiring, then feeling compelled to return to service by entering the ISB.

I have no idea if any of the "ISB Agent" backstory has any confirmation in new canon material. I kind of assumed that when Disney took over they would go with the intentions of the Clone Wars producers and simply make him a very high ranking Admiral sitting at that table, but who knows.

That is who many people are assuming the guy in the white outfit is in the trailer.

In new canon "Tarkin" novel he is an ISB officer.

So the kneeling figure in the black cloak, are we to assume its Vader? My buds and I are debating, I went with "an agent of Vader" possibly... but it could be him so who knows.

Have we ever seen Vader in a hood?

Maybe he goes for the hooded look while his helmet is getting repaired from Ahsoka's damage to it?

(Now that would be a nice continuity wink, wouldn't it? Probably too much to hope for, if this movie really is supposed to lead RIGHT into the events of Episode IV, though...)

Not likely. The end of Rebels season 2 is roughly 3 years prior to the events of New Hope. Do you really think Vader walked around with a chunk missing from his helmet (which provides life support!) for 3 years?

Jim

So the kneeling figure in the black cloak, are we to assume its Vader? My buds and I are debating, I went with "an agent of Vader" possibly... but it could be him so who knows.

Have we ever seen Vader in a hood?

Maybe he goes for the hooded look while his helmet is getting repaired from Ahsoka's damage to it?

(Now that would be a nice continuity wink, wouldn't it? Probably too much to hope for, if this movie really is supposed to lead RIGHT into the events of Episode IV, though...)

Not likely. The end of Rebels season 2 is roughly 3 years prior to the events of New Hope. Do you really think Vader walked around with a chunk missing from his helmet (which provides life support!) for 3 years?

Jim

Well, ergo the comment "if the movie is supposed to lead right into..."

After all, it may span a period of time. 'Empire Strikes Back' covered something close to a year of time, after all. A single movie COULD go further.

I agree it's pretty unlikely, but it'd be amusing, and certainly possible. Start the movie with that scene - hooded figure receiving orders from the Emperor, and no more of that person until the end when Vader is revealed undamaged some time later.

...it's just a bit unlikely if the events really are LITERALLY to lead right into 'A New Hope'. If this whole story is covering the period from, say, 3 BBY to 1 BBY, on the other hand...

The use of melee weapons can be ceremonial - think of the Pope, protected by his brightly colored Swiss Guard (Emperor Palpatine is, in many ways, an evil space Pope).

Very good point, but see this:

Although many would think the Vatican is protected by a token force of spear-slinging cosplayers, this is not the case. Although the Vatican does not like to discuss it, many plain-clothed officers are nearby the Pope when he is moving about. This especially includes when he travels abroad. These Swiss Guard officers pack the best weaponry available, namely tricked-out Heckler & Koch MP7 personal defense weapon (PDW) that fires armor piercing small caliber rifle rounds. This weapon is extremely popular with elite units ranging from SEAL Team Six to presidential protection units around the globe. It is also compact enough to be packed in an underarm-sling that can be concealed underneath a sport coat.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-pope-has-a-small-but-deadly-army-of-elite-warriors-1733268646

Wullf was a colonel.

Wait, when did he get demoted...I mean moved from the rank of Admiral to Colonel? He was admiarl of Anakin's flagship during the Clone Wars, right?

It seems like a good idea to review the Wulf Yularen since it is likely that some people have no idea who he is, and others probably don't know his convoluted history.

As I understand it (and I could have things wrong here), in a new hope, during the briefing room scene, there was a random old guy in a white uniform. No dialog or anything, just a guy who sits there and watches Vader almost kill Motti.

Being the original Star Wars, when early EU was being created, EVERYONE in the movie got a name and backstory. Someone, somewhere (west end?) decided that the guy was the DS head of the ISB (basically the spymaster/commissar/political officer) and that his name was Wulf Yularan.

Timothy Zahn comes along and writes the Thrawn trilogy, which invented the concept of "Grand Admirals" (not unreasonable, since there were "Grand Moffs) and declared that White Uniforms were used by these Grand Admirals.

Many people not as familiar witht he more esoteric parts of the EU assumed that the guy on the DS was, therefore, a grand admiral.

Some of the people in charge of producing the Clone Wars were among that group. they figured Wulf Yularan was a grand admiral in ANH, so it would be a neat nod to the universe to put him in the show as a "mere" admiral during the clone wars.

Problem was, there was already a lot of backstory to the character as a high ranking ISB agent. So, instead of chucking some of the conflicting material and saying "this is wrong", an elaborate backstory was created to explain a character being a naval admiral, then retiring, then feeling compelled to return to service by entering the ISB.

I have no idea if any of the "ISB Agent" backstory has any confirmation in new canon material. I kind of assumed that when Disney took over they would go with the intentions of the Clone Wars producers and simply make him a very high ranking Admiral sitting at that table, but who knows.

That is who many people are assuming the guy in the white outfit is in the trailer.

An excellent exposition of just one of the problems with the EU's fevered efforts to flesh out every single character in the films. For the love of Mike, leave something to our imaginations!

If I could purge something from my brain, it would be the nonsense 'Dr Cornelius Evezan' backstory relating to the scumbag whom Obi Wan dices in the cantina in ANH.

Guy guys. Its the most useful thing to know how to fight without a weapon. Or to fight at close range with a knife, which can sometimes be deployed faster than a gun. Also a knife is good for cutting through bonds, breaking locks, etc. Quietly dispatching someone. Its also easy to conceal, and small and fits on you without much effort.

What I'm asking about is why the wanna-be not-jedi stick fighter. Who carries around a heavy ******* ass stick. Its big. Its long. Its conspicuous. And everyone thinks you're compensating for something.

Why would anyone train in martial arts at all today when we have guns?

Because it's a hobby, because it keeps you fit, because it's part of your culture, because you like it, because you want to compete in it...

People in Star Wars just get to ALSO use it in combat situations when they can.

Shooting weapons is also a martial discipline in its own right. If shooting were so easy everyone would be a sniper and there would be no terrorist bombs. You have to have proper sight alignment, trigger control steady grip. It is more than just pointing and pulling the trigger like any FPS game.

This.

Shooting ain't easy. Even in short distances it can be a challenge. Nobody can just be given a weapon and told, "You point it at them and shoot" because there's several functions to take into account.

Sure, reloading is a button push in a video game... But let's take a handgun for example.

Mag release, extract magazine, replace magazine, unlock slide (Given that it's already back- and it should be.). That's all part of reloading. Now, I can do a full reload in just about three seconds- and believe me when I say that's not exactly fast but somebody untrained is going to take a lot longer to reload.

Rifles are a little different. Though the principles remain about the same. Still different motions you have to practice.

And hell, once you're out of ammo? Dude, sorry but you're out of ammo. Nobody's got time to do a full mag load in a heavy situation. You run dry, you run dry. (Don't... like, throw your magazines around the field though.)

That's also why I like revolvers, by the way. You can load a couple rounds faster and easier than you can sans-mag with a semi auto. (Actually, you really can't in a semi-auto. Not realistically/easily that's for sure. I mean you could but seriously come on.)

But yeah.

Firearms are not idiot sticks. They're complicated machines that require finesse and care to use properly. Same goes for every weapon, honestly.

Plus: Melee weapons don't jam

Re: question of why modern soldiers train with melee weapons?

Ever see Starship Troopers?

Who needs a knife in a nuke fight? Sir?

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/o9ewG1Y

It also distorted the scene from the book to the point of almost being unrecognizable.

It also distorted the scene from the book to the point of almost being unrecognizable.

Well, it's pretty awesome, so it's probably better than the one in the book.

It also distorted the scene from the book to the point of almost being unrecognizable.

Well, it's pretty awesome, so it's probably better than the one in the book.

Nah, the movie had the ST property added a good bit into the making of the movie, the book is much, much better.

If we can use an H-bomb--and as you said it's no checker game; it's real, it's war and nobody is fooling around--isn't it sort of ridiculous to go crawling around in the weeds, throwing knives and maybe getting yourself killed . . . and even losing the war . . . when you've got a real weapon you can use to win? What's the point in a whole lot of men risking their lives with obsolete weapons when one professor type can do so much more just by pushing a button?'

Zim didn't answer at once, which wasn't like him at all. Then he said softly, 'Are you happy in the Infantry, Hendrick? You can resign, you know.'

Hendrick muttered something; Zim said, 'Speak up!'

I'm not itching to resign, sir. I'm going to sweat out my term.'

I see. Well, the question you asked is one that a sergeant isn't really qualified to answer . . . and one that you shouldn't ask me. You're supposed to know the answer before you join up. Or you should. Did your school have a course in History and Moral Philosophy?'

What? Sure--yes, sir.'

Then you've heard the answer. But I'll give you my own--unofficial--views on it. If you wanted to teach a baby a lesson, would you cuts its head off?'

Why . . . no, sir!'

Of course not. You'd paddle it. There can be circumstances when it's just as foolish to hit an enemy with an H-Bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an ax. War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him . . . but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing . . . but controlled and purposeful violence. But it's not your business or mine to decide the purpose of the control. It's never a soldier's business to decide when or where or how--or why--he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why and how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the violence; other people--"older and wiser heads," as they say--supply the control. Which is as it should be. That's the best answer I can give you. If it doesn't satisfy you, I'll get you a chit to go talk to the regimental commander. If he can't convince you--then go home and be a civilian! Because in that case you will certainly never make a soldier.”

It also distorted the scene from the book to the point of almost being unrecognizable.

Well, it's pretty awesome, so it's probably better than the one in the book.

Nah, the movie had the ST property added a good bit into the making of the movie, the book is much, much better.

If we can use an H-bomb--and as you said it's no checker game; it's real, it's war and nobody is fooling around--isn't it sort of ridiculous to go crawling around in the weeds, throwing knives and maybe getting yourself killed . . . and even losing the war . . . when you've got a real weapon you can use to win? What's the point in a whole lot of men risking their lives with obsolete weapons when one professor type can do so much more just by pushing a button?'

Zim didn't answer at once, which wasn't like him at all. Then he said softly, 'Are you happy in the Infantry, Hendrick? You can resign, you know.'

Hendrick muttered something; Zim said, 'Speak up!'

I'm not itching to resign, sir. I'm going to sweat out my term.'

I see. Well, the question you asked is one that a sergeant isn't really qualified to answer . . . and one that you shouldn't ask me. You're supposed to know the answer before you join up. Or you should. Did your school have a course in History and Moral Philosophy?'

What? Sure--yes, sir.'

Then you've heard the answer. But I'll give you my own--unofficial--views on it. If you wanted to teach a baby a lesson, would you cuts its head off?'

Why . . . no, sir!'

Of course not. You'd paddle it. There can be circumstances when it's just as foolish to hit an enemy with an H-Bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an ax. War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him . . . but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing . . . but controlled and purposeful violence. But it's not your business or mine to decide the purpose of the control. It's never a soldier's business to decide when or where or how--or why--he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why and how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the violence; other people--"older and wiser heads," as they say--supply the control. Which is as it should be. That's the best answer I can give you. If it doesn't satisfy you, I'll get you a chit to go talk to the regimental commander. If he can't convince you--then go home and be a civilian! Because in that case you will certainly never make a soldier.”

In short, Clausewitz's dictum, "War is the continuation of politics by other means."

In short, Clausewitz's dictum, "War is the continuation of politics by other means."

Absolutely.

It is also literally von Clausewitz who also said "war is a means to force others to do our will".

ST is a great book, with much food for thought. Too bad Paul Verhoeven, who I like as a person and a director both, got introduced to the book when making Attack on Outpost 9.

Everyone's saying Thrawn. But wasn't he a chiss? The admiral in the trailer is definitely not blue lol.

Maybe he's not Thrawn.

Maybe he's not-Thrawn.

Fleet Admiral not-Thrawn.

Noth'raw'nuruodo

EDIT: Disregard, posted early in the morning.

In short, Clausewitz's dictum, "War is the continuation of politics by other means."

Absolutely.

It is also literally von Clausewitz who also said "war is a means to force others to do our will".

ST is a great book, with much food for thought. Too bad Paul Verhoeven, who I like as a person and a director both, got introduced to the book when making Attack on Outpost 9.

It may not be exactly true to the book, but it did eerily get more relevant as time passed.

Im just excited this movie should bring on a fix for the T-65 when FFG releases Rouge One wave.

Is it broken? Not that I don't want new one, but are the old ones so bad?

Rey Katarn. I like the sound of that...

Hell's yeah!

Much excitement!

I'm confident they'll make another good, enjoyable, rewatchable movie.

And although it would be cool to see the old team back together, I do hope they give us some new names for pilots, because there are only so many colours and greek letters FFG can put "Ace" and "Leader" behind to create new uniques.

Hype on!

So, I watched the trailer and while a lot of it -interested- not a lot of it -excited- me. I wondered why? It has familiar faces, the music, it has stormtroopers and rebels and action! But then I thought about it...

Most of the trailer is "shoe leather". That's the term used to describe showing movement between places, and not much else. There's a whole lot of people walking and people running in this trailer. Past that? One action scene in the end, two clips of a fight in the middle and two clips of dialogue. The parts that got me excited we're seeing the Death Star, the imperial agent, and the end fight scene. Though I feel this trailer didn't show as much as the TFA trailet, but tricked you into thinking it did. So I'm withholding true excitement till I see more.