Weird. I feel like HotAC has pretty well shown that you can do a ton of stuff with this game.

You CAN do a lot of stuff with this game, but sadly a lot of communities are obsessed, playing that single scenario (deathmatch) at the same points level (100) with the same terrain (six rocks) over and over and over...

I think a lot of people get into this game because they love Star Wars, and then they get crubstomped by TLT spam or toilet seat spam, or clever stacking of abilities and upgrades, and they see how hard it can be to get X Wing to really feel like Star Wars.

A lot of people really want to run their X Wings against TIE Fighters, or play HotAC, or Epic matches, or use the campaigns from the Epic ship boxes, but club nights in many areas are dominated by tournament games and that can be really off-putting to a wide section of the potential gaming community.

I've rarely play in a tournament game where someone hasn't cheated. At the recent Hoth open, players were forced to share a set of dice because one guy was accused of using loaded dice. At Worlds I had to call a TO in almost every game due to shady activity. That and collusion happens a lot too. The best advice is if you're not prepared for shady activity, it's best not to play competitive (except maybe for seasonal store kits). Leagues like PTL Toronto allow you to show up with fun lists you've always wanted to try and pilots you don't often use. It promotes flying casual.

I think if players are approaching the game with that attitude (expecting people to cheat) they will find reasons in their mannerisms and or choices (or even things that are accidental, like bumping a ship) that they think confirm that bias.

I've played over 200 games in tournaments from store level to multiple worlds and I've only needed to call a judge over less than a handful times and none of them were due to behavior related to possible cheating. Those time were all due to either a) needing a rules interpretation that wasn't clear to either or both and b) getting a third perspective on a close measurement (as part of an amicable discussion of the game situation).

I've even had conversations with a regular FFG developer and tournament judge at World's about judging X-wing. He talked about the fact that judging X-wing is so much easier than other games he's seen or been a part of and that it especially lacks situations where players tried to bend rules and use judges to leverage their own side of things.

I guess my point is that I believe that while we may be seeing more incidents of cheating as the community grows, what we're seeing/hearing more of is actually more about the people who come in with a negative attitude about the players they are facing and are finding reasons to accuse them of cheating when that really isn't the case (like the people at Hoth that were accusing opponents of loaded dice). We're getting far more accusations and, dare I say, expectation of cheating than is actually going on.

Whenever I hear "Fly Casual!" I always think of one of the first X-Wing videos I watched on Youtube. I think it was the 2014 worlds final (but I may be wrong) and if memory serves me correctly Paul Heavier let his opponent retrospectively assign a focus token to a ship he forgot. This was one of the videos that made me think "Wow, this is going to be a pretty nice community.". Even at the highest levels of competitive play; 2 players who respect each other can allow each other the occasional brain fart in the highest pressure setting.

This isn't to say that the mantra should be used for all these situations. The tournament rules about "missed opportunities" are quite clear. It has, however, affected the way I personally approach the game. I'm more than willing to allow my opponent the occasional brain fart in a competitive environment but it really shouldn't be used as an excuse for sloppy play. The rules is the rules at the end of the day.

For example; my opponent moves 3 y-wings and only assigns focus tokens to 2 and forgets the third. I'm more than happy to say go for it and give the other one it's focus so long as we haven't reached the dice rolling and it's come up all eyes. No reason game wise you'd have not taken an action. However if my opponent demands he assign a token and demands I fly casual; I simply will dig my heels in as... RULES! They're there for a reason! I want my opponent to have fun and not feel like I'm curbstommping or winning solely due to their errors. I want us both to feel like it was a great game and the better dice roller came out on top. Again though; this doesn't mean they should be getting away with deliberately nudging ships, rolling blanks and saying "oh, I meant to target lock" etc. Just that people are only human and do forget things at times.

I once had someone get stroppy with me about a bomb they'd forgotten to drop. This only came up after I'd moved a ship to exactly where the bomb would have been. Naturally I refused this "missed opportunity" as he'd seen where I was going and totally defeats the point of the bomb rules. I was as nice as I could be and stated that it's really not fair as he now knows 100% it would hurt me as opposed to if he'd brought it up BEFORE I moved any of my ships. He then said something like "Fine. You're not taking back any mistakes.". Fair enough. Them's the rules. To me this was also Fly Casual. I didn't get angry or argue or even flustered, just continued to play as per the rules.

Fly Casual to me is way more about how you conduct yourself as a person knowing you're representing the game and yourself to any onlookers as opposed to being casual about the rules because, let's face it, without rules we may as well just buy micro-machines and run around shouting "PEW-PEW!".

Fly Casual to me is all about being a great sport, helping newer players find their feet and not being a muppet. I.E no table flipping, rants etc. Missed opportunities are for both players to agree on and that's the rules. Chanting "Fly Casual" every time a player forgets something or wants to change their dial is a great way to NOT fly casual.

All that said; there is a rise in competitively minded players and I'm happy to meet them on their own terms. This is also Fly Casual. I'm just prepared for the different types of opponent and motivations for playing the game. Hey, you want to not allow any missed opportunities? That's fine with me. So long as we're both on the same page. So long as we're both playing and holding ourselves to the same standard; that's just as much fly casual as any other situation so long as there's no un-sportsman like behaviour.

Just my opinion and not necessarily that of anyone else.

We have a pretty big community where we play X-wing and we have promoted the fly casual mind set since the start but it's getting harder.

X-wing is very popular and it has a growing player base full of experienced players so people play more and more compedetive. Then it's the part of all the fixes being released that makes it hard for new players too just jump in to the tournament scene.

you wanna to fly darth vader?, better buy the raider

A-wings?, rebel aces

Y-wings? most wanted and prob a k-wing and the list goes on.

The game is very good for veterans since you get more and more cool prizes and fixes for old ships that gives us new ways to play ships. For newer players it's getting more and more expensive to jump into the current tournament scene if you don't wanna place at the bottom most of the time.

Funny enough, with the whole business scheme, FFG has made it excruciatingly hard for new players to get all the cards they need for a tournament. And then the way the game is set up, there are basically a few optimal max best builds for certain pilots, and not running them tends to be a disadvantage numerically. (Sorry guys! But the results and numbers say that certain tried and true ship configurations are the best!)

Really? You can be tournament ready with a starter and 2 small expansions. Now, that doesn't mean you are fielding a top tier squad. But, you don't need a top tier squad to play this game. This whole "it is difficult for players to get into this game" is silly. If you are focused on the top tier squads, sure. But you don't need the top tier squads to have fun with this game.

Don't recommend a new player to go out and get all the good expansions. Encourage them to build up slowly. Much like getting into an older LCG, going all in is daunting. But a slower approach is best.

We've modified the phrase. Check my sig out for the new one.

Never believed in or promoted Fly Casual myself. The initial post of it was a jab at players who played with a competitive mindset and made it seem like playing casually made one somehow superior.

Over the years since that ideal started, people in the community perverted it for their own means and took things to the extreme, expecting their opponent to be lenient every time they made a mistake, etc... rather than living with their mistakes and learning from them.

If you want to promote a good community, host some casual game nights and show the fun atmosphere and attitude one can have while playing. Talk with the newcomers about maintaining an atmosphere of fun. Find a couple people who are regular that are willing to promote a relaxed attitude with you.

I think the point of "Fly Casual" was to not push people out of the game by making the expectation perfect rules understanding before you try it or gtfo. When you are growing a new gaming community hyper competitive mindsets will make sure your game has a very hard time growing as everyone takes time to learn. Now that there is a wide variety of opportunities for play of various styles you can select events that cater to your level of competition.

If "Fly Casual" simply means "Don't be a jerk" I think there are a more significant undertones when combined with a lot of (this forums) majority vocal viewpoint of other nerd games:

Nerds are the worst.

Tabletop board gamers have a bad stereotype attached to them: smelly white dudes with poor social skills.

If Fly Casual is the X-Wing community attempting to change the general public view of tabletop gamers, then heck yes, sign me up. But we also need to understand that it isn't really about the rules, individual games, ships, list building, winning, losing, mistakes, etc.

It's about presenting a good face to the public when they walk into a game shop to buy Monopoly.

It means not sneering at someone for saying their favorite game is Cards Against Humanity.

It means toning down the inside nerd jokes when introducing people to the game so they feel more welcome.

It means making your best attempt at treating women like a part of the nerd family.

I'm starting to think "Fly Casual" means more about how we present ourselves as a community to the public, and less about how we treat each other.

I'm starting to think "Fly Casual" means more about how we present ourselves as a community to the public, and less about how we treat each other.

Or that both of those two axis are important.

I'm starting to think "Fly Casual" means more about how we present ourselves as a community to the public, and less about how we treat each other.

Or that both of those two axis are important.

Sure, but I've never run into any real issues the few times I've interacted with people in person at X-Wing events. But I speak the language, know most of the inside jokes, and can pretty much be an equal. Honestly, for the most part any gaming community, once you are a part of it is generally pretty good. The problem is when a new person interacts with a gaming community for the first time.

Fly Casual has and always will be this:

Don't be a jackass.

It doesn't mean be lenient. It doesn't mean letting your opponent correct mistakes.

It means taking the bad with a laugh, the good with modesty and humbleness.

It means being friendly and welcoming.

It does not mean cursing, yelling loudly, throwing things, or insulting people.

It does not mean cheating.

It does not mean having to let your opponent correct mistakes or having to remind them of "may" triggers.

This.

One can WAAC with a casual polite attitude and while adhering to the rules.

Fly Casual can be interpreted so many ways.

To me it means:

Keep a positive attitude

Be a graceful winner

Don't be a sore loser

Don't cheat

Remind your opponent about the little things(didn't take action, forgot to attack)

Don't be ocd about movement

It does not mean:

Letting your opponent change their dial

Reminding them of "may" abilities

Most tourneys I compete in I'm pretty relaxed concerning things. I'm not trying to be a jerk. But I am trying to have fun. You know what's fun?

Winning

Attacking and taking an action are 'may' abilities.

Fly Casual can be interpreted so many ways.

To me it means:

Keep a positive attitude

Be a graceful winner

Don't be a sore loser

Don't cheat

Remind your opponent about the little things(didn't take action, forgot to attack)

Don't be ocd about movement

It does not mean:

Letting your opponent change their dial

Reminding them of "may" abilities

Most tourneys I compete in I'm pretty relaxed concerning things. I'm not trying to be a jerk. But I am trying to have fun. You know what's fun?

Winning

Attacking and taking an action are 'may' abilities.

while playing against my friend who loves using Dash, i bug him by reminding him Dash's ability is a may.... Every time he lands on a rock im like "Are you using his ability?"

I think a lot of you misunderstand what Fly Casual means. It has nothing to do about playing casual games rather than competitive tournaments, in fact it was first used by Hothie at the first Worlds.

Everyone seems to have their own take on it, but the common idea is about having fun (win or loose), and how you treat your opponent.

I once had someone get stroppy with me about a bomb they'd forgotten to drop. This only came up after I'd moved a ship to exactly where the bomb would have been. Naturally I refused this "missed opportunity" as he'd seen where I was going and totally defeats the point of the bomb rules. I was as nice as I could be and stated that it's really not fair as he now knows 100% it would hurt me as opposed to if he'd brought it up BEFORE I moved any of my ships. He then said something like "Fine. You're not taking back any mistakes.". Fair enough. Them's the rules. To me this was also Fly Casual. I didn't get angry or argue or even flustered, just continued to play as per the rules.

In what galaxy would anyone allow the bomb to drop other than playing against your own little children. This is an excellent example of abusing the "fly casual" rule and not understanding its true meaning. I would never want to play this player twice.

We have a pretty big community where we play X-wing and we have promoted the fly casual mind set since the start but it's getting harder.

X-wing is very popular and it has a growing player base full of experienced players so people play more and more compedetive. Then it's the part of all the fixes being released that makes it hard for new players too just jump in to the tournament scene.

you wanna to fly darth vader?, better buy the raider

A-wings?, rebel aces

Y-wings? most wanted and prob a k-wing and the list goes on.

The game is very good for veterans since you get more and more cool prizes and fixes for old ships that gives us new ways to play ships. For newer players it's getting more and more expensive to jump into the current tournament scene if you don't wanna place at the bottom most of the time.

Funny enough, with the whole business scheme, FFG has made it excruciatingly hard for new players to get all the cards they need for a tournament. And then the way the game is set up, there are basically a few optimal max best builds for certain pilots, and not running them tends to be a disadvantage numerically. (Sorry guys! But the results and numbers say that certain tried and true ship configurations are the best!)

Really? You can be tournament ready with a starter and 2 small expansions. Now, that doesn't mean you are fielding a top tier squad. But, you don't need a top tier squad to play this game. This whole "it is difficult for players to get into this game" is silly. If you are focused on the top tier squads, sure. But you don't need the top tier squads to have fun with this game.

Don't recommend a new player to go out and get all the good expansions. Encourage them to build up slowly. Much like getting into an older LCG, going all in is daunting. But a slower approach is best.

Go ahead. Show me a competitive list with starter and 2 small expansions.

Play it against this, which is what the people at the nearby FLGS are playing for casual games:

2 IG

4 TLT

Ghost builds

3 Scouts

The Worlds level players in the area are playing Palp Aces also.

Best I can do with 1 core, 2 small expos:

old core, Y and K

Luke Skywalker (28)

I think a lot of you misunderstand what Fly Casual means. It has nothing to do about playing casual games rather than competitive tournaments, in fact it was first used by Hothie at the first Worlds.

Everyone seems to have their own take on it, but the common idea is about having fun (win or loose), and how you treat your opponent.

I agree. Its about being a good person and being good to others and having fun while playing.

It's about being friendly to people when they forget an action and go to move another ship. You remind them before they move the other ship to take the action with the previous ship. It's about helping each other out and being great to each other. The action with the ship is just one example.

I think a lot of you misunderstand what Fly Casual means. It has nothing to do about playing casual games rather than competitive tournaments, in fact it was first used by Hothie at the first Worlds.

Everyone seems to have their own take on it, but the common idea is about having fun (win or loose), and how you treat your opponent.

I agree. Its about being a good person and being good to others and having fun while playing.

It's about being friendly to people when they forget an action and go to move another ship. You remind them before they move the other ship to take the action with the previous ship. It's about helping each other out and being great to each other. The action with the ship is just one example.

When I'm in a tournament I'll only give them one reminder/take back with their action, after that they're on their own, unless they're obviously a new player. But I'll never ask for the same. For me that's a big part of the tournament, higher stakes, and since the prizes are usually kind of weak (imho), it's the round to round skill and efficiency that I really love.

If my opponent makes some perfect maneuver i didn't foresee, or rolls a bunch of hit and crits, wiping one of my ships off the board I'll congratulate them. For me that's Fly Casual, having a good time playing a game with someone, regardless of how I'm doing in the match.

We have a pretty big community where we play X-wing and we have promoted the fly casual mind set since the start but it's getting harder.

X-wing is very popular and it has a growing player base full of experienced players so people play more and more compedetive. Then it's the part of all the fixes being released that makes it hard for new players too just jump in to the tournament scene.

you wanna to fly darth vader?, better buy the raider

A-wings?, rebel aces

Y-wings? most wanted and prob a k-wing and the list goes on.

The game is very good for veterans since you get more and more cool prizes and fixes for old ships that gives us new ways to play ships. For newer players it's getting more and more expensive to jump into the current tournament scene if you don't wanna place at the bottom most of the time.

Funny enough, with the whole business scheme, FFG has made it excruciatingly hard for new players to get all the cards they need for a tournament. And then the way the game is set up, there are basically a few optimal max best builds for certain pilots, and not running them tends to be a disadvantage numerically. (Sorry guys! But the results and numbers say that certain tried and true ship configurations are the best!)

Really? You can be tournament ready with a starter and 2 small expansions. Now, that doesn't mean you are fielding a top tier squad. But, you don't need a top tier squad to play this game. This whole "it is difficult for players to get into this game" is silly. If you are focused on the top tier squads, sure. But you don't need the top tier squads to have fun with this game.

Don't recommend a new player to go out and get all the good expansions. Encourage them to build up slowly. Much like getting into an older LCG, going all in is daunting. But a slower approach is best.

Go ahead. Show me a competitive list with starter and 2 small expansions.

Play it against this, which is what the people at the nearby FLGS are playing for casual games:

2 IG

4 TLT

Ghost builds

3 Scouts

The Worlds level players in the area are playing Palp Aces also.

Best I can do with 1 core, 2 small expos:

old core, Y and K

Luke Skywalker (28)

R2-D2 (4)

"Dutch" Vander (23)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Miranda Doni (29)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Conner Net (4)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Adding the Falcon though, gives you VI on Luke, and Chewbacca on Miranda. MUCH BETTER.

Adding the T-70 gives you possible Ello Asty with VI and R2D2 and Integrated.

Core and Falcon has always been okay. A big ship is really good for new players.

Decimators are basically their own build a bear workshop.

As a new player (only 3 games so far) that owns at least 1 of every ship and mulitples of many. I can build any competitive list I want, but I've gotten my ass kicked every game so far simply because the other guy was better. If I took the XYK list you mentioned and spent some time learning how to fly it well I'd do much better than I do and could still slowly add ships to make better lists. I of course don't think it hurts to have a lot of resources, but I also don't think it's the worst advice to tell a new person they don't need everything to play at first. With most things the expectation for somebody new to it isn't to be competitive from day 1; I'm not sure why it would be any different with this. I want to have fun and get better. If I have fun I'll stick with it, if I stick with it I'll get better, if I keep getting better I'll eventually be competitive.

Fly Casual

V The act of keeping your distance (but not looking like you're keeping your distance)

"I don't know, fly casual!"

I think a lot of you misunderstand what Fly Casual means. It has nothing to do about playing casual games rather than competitive tournaments, in fact it was first used by Hothie at the first Worlds.

Everyone seems to have their own take on it, but the common idea is about having fun (win or loose), and how you treat your opponent.

I agree. Its about being a good person and being good to others and having fun while playing.

It's about being friendly to people when they forget an action and go to move another ship. You remind them before they move the other ship to take the action with the previous ship. It's about helping each other out and being great to each other. The action with the ship is just one example.

You can be friendly and deny people missed triggers.

So I was reading about Snooker today. interesting sport. At the highest level of play, they have what I think Doug and other fly casual advocates were looking to emulate.

Per Wikipedia, it states- "Professional players usually play the game in a sporting manner, declaring fouls the referee has missed, acknowledging good shots from their opponent, or holding up a hand to apologize for fortunate shots, also known as 'flukes'."

Unfortunately, Fly Casual has become so gummed up between Paragoombaslayer's "Screw over your opponent at every opportunity. But be nice about it!" and (insert username here)'s "If you fly me off the board you're an awful human being", that it basically means nothing anymore.

So basically, in everyone's own mind they 'fly casual'.

I have run a casual venue in Seattle since the game launched and it's stronger than ever. I probably wouldn't still be playing if I only played against hyper-competitive people; I have other hobbies and can't spend the time it takes to MASTER THE META. I still lose most of my casual games, but at least it's friendly and social!

So I was reading about Snooker today. interesting sport. At the highest level of play, they have what I think Doug and other fly casual advocates were looking to emulate.

Per Wikipedia, it states- "Professional players usually play the game in a sporting manner, declaring fouls the referee has missed, acknowledging good shots from their opponent, or holding up a hand to apologize for fortunate shots, also known as 'flukes'."

Unfortunately, Fly Casual has become so gummed up between Paragoombaslayer's "Screw over your opponent at every opportunity. But be nice about it!" and (insert username here)'s "If you fly me off the board you're an awful human being", that it basically means nothing anymore.

What's wrong with that? I'm polite and I follow the rules. I'm flying /casually/ with a laid back attitude.

Nothing wrong with letting your opponent move his ships at the same time and then put focus tokens down, and then withdrawing consent for his missed opportunities when his ships are range 1 of your 5 red Interceptors next turn when he misses all of his action opportunities.

So I was reading about Snooker today. interesting sport. At the highest level of play, they have what I think Doug and other fly casual advocates were looking to emulate.

Per Wikipedia, it states- "Professional players usually play the game in a sporting manner, declaring fouls the referee has missed, acknowledging good shots from their opponent, or holding up a hand to apologize for fortunate shots, also known as 'flukes'."

Unfortunately, Fly Casual has become so gummed up between Paragoombaslayer's "Screw over your opponent at every opportunity. But be nice about it!" and (insert username here)'s "If you fly me off the board you're an awful human being", that it basically means nothing anymore.

What's wrong with that? I'm polite and I follow the rules. I'm flying /casually/ with a laid back attitude.

Nothing wrong with letting your opponent move his ships at the same time and then put focus tokens down, and then withdrawing consent for his missed opportunities when his ships are range 1 of your 5 red Interceptors next turn when he misses all of his action opportunities.

Thanks for emphasizing my point Para.

My point is that the points between what "Fly Casual" means are so broad between one side and the other, that it's impossible to identify what it really means. You say flying casual is taking advantage of the rules as written to the fullest extent, to the point of risking making the gaming experience extremely uncomfortable for an unassuming opponent as long as you feel it is done politely, and the other far extreme says that anyone who would be "dirty" enough to do what the rules allow when a mistake is made, even when they are fully deserved, is not flying casual because they made them pay for that mistake.