So I was reading about Snooker today. interesting sport. At the highest level of play, they have what I think Doug and other fly casual advocates were looking to emulate.

Per Wikipedia, it states- "Professional players usually play the game in a sporting manner, declaring fouls the referee has missed, acknowledging good shots from their opponent, or holding up a hand to apologize for fortunate shots, also known as 'flukes'."

Unfortunately, Fly Casual has become so gummed up between Paragoombaslayer's "Screw over your opponent at every opportunity. But be nice about it!" and (insert username here)'s "If you fly me off the board you're an awful human being", that it basically means nothing anymore.

What's wrong with that? I'm polite and I follow the rules. I'm flying /casually/ with a laid back attitude.

Nothing wrong with letting your opponent move his ships at the same time and then put focus tokens down, and then withdrawing consent for his missed opportunities when his ships are range 1 of your 5 red Interceptors next turn when he misses all of his action opportunities.

Thanks for emphasizing my point Para.

My point is that the points between what "Fly Casual" means are so broad between one side and the other, that it's impossible to identify what it really means. You say flying casual is taking advantage of the rules as written to the fullest extent, to the point of risking making the gaming experience extremely uncomfortable for an unassuming opponent as long as you feel it is done politely, and the other far extreme says that anyone who would be "dirty" enough to do what the rules allow when a mistake is made, even when they are fully deserved, is not flying casual because they made them pay for that mistake.

What I'm saying is that all that matters is that you're polite and follow the rules. That's flying casual.

Doing what I did is certainly more casual than firing out of PS order and having a, "you serious bro? Are you ******* serious? Do you /really/ want to play that way? It's just a casual tournament bro" fit when I deny you shots with your PS 8's because you fired first with a PS 6. Because of "fly casual", people fly sloppy and expect to have their hand held.

What I'm saying is that all that matters is that you're polite and follow the rules. That's flying casual.

Doing what I did is certainly more casual than firing out of PS order and having a, "you serious bro? Are you ******* serious? Do you /really/ want to play that way? It's just a casual tournament bro" fit when I deny you shots with your PS 8's because you fired first with a PS 6. Because of "fly casual", people fly sloppy and expect to have their hand held.

But that's different than my definition of fly casual. If in that situation the players were playing by my definition, that player wouldn't even have the opportunity to feel offended because as he is going down to make measurements for his PS 6, his opponent would inform him that he may have forgot to shoot with his PS 8, and then allow him to do so. Not because the player needs or deserves to be coached on how to fly his own list, but because, simply put, it's a nice thing to do. I'm sure that burns your eyes to read with how hug happy these forums are, right? But even on that note, I don't expect a player to continue to do this throughout. First time, kindly remind them of a possible missed opportunity, but let them know you're going to take full advantage if they fail to do it again.

As to your definition of fly casual- To me, there are some, what I would call, tactics you use I don't agree with (mainly denying actions to ships when the player reveals multiple dials at once when you had previously allowed them to perform actions when this occured, but that conversation has been had and no need to discuss it again here), but if you say you play that way and people respect you and aren't bothered by it, and most importantly you personally aren't bothered or effected negatively by it, then keep doing what you do.

But, the fact that our definitions of fly casual differ so greatly I think clearly shows it's kind of a rotted theme, no matter how good the original intention was.

I once had someone get stroppy with me about a bomb they'd forgotten to drop. This only came up after I'd moved a ship to exactly where the bomb would have been. Naturally I refused this "missed opportunity" as he'd seen where I was going and totally defeats the point of the bomb rules. I was as nice as I could be and stated that it's really not fair as he now knows 100% it would hurt me as opposed to if he'd brought it up BEFORE I moved any of my ships. He then said something like "Fine. You're not taking back any mistakes.". Fair enough. Them's the rules. To me this was also Fly Casual. I didn't get angry or argue or even flustered, just continued to play as per the rules.

In what galaxy would anyone allow the bomb to drop other than playing against your own little children. This is an excellent example of abusing the "fly casual" rule and not understanding its true meaning. I would never want to play this player twice.

That's pretty much why I used the example. Had the guy moved his ship and instantly said "****, I meant to drop my proton bomb" I'd have been fine with it but after the game state has changed and moved on it's ridiculous. I see a lot of people trying to get away with things under the moniker "Fly Casual" and it's very frustrating. It almost feels like people forget it's only a game at times...

I think a lot of you misunderstand what Fly Casual means. It has nothing to do about playing casual games rather than competitive tournaments, in fact it was first used by Hothie at the first Worlds.

Everyone seems to have their own take on it, but the common idea is about having fun (win or loose), and how you treat your opponent.

I agree. Its about being a good person and being good to others and having fun while playing.

It's about being friendly to people when they forget an action and go to move another ship. You remind them before they move the other ship to take the action with the previous ship. It's about helping each other out and being great to each other. The action with the ship is just one example.

You can be friendly and deny people missed triggers.

Yes you can, but why would I want to play the game like that? I would feel like the win was for nothing. At least I know that I earned the win and it is not undeserved when i remind someone of a missed action. Some people just like winning the easy way.

We are all human. We all make mistakes. Fly casual is not about being sloppy when playing. When in a tournament around your 4th or 5th game mistakes can and will be made usually by both parties. I do not want to have an undeserved win. That to me just does not feel right. If I see my opponent make a mistake I tell him about it so he can fix it, and I do not let something go so I can feel like I one upped him. I try to make sure the game is played correctly, but I guess everyone is different.

What I'm saying is that all that matters is that you're polite and follow the rules. That's flying casual.

Doing what I did is certainly more casual than firing out of PS order and having a, "you serious bro? Are you ******* serious? Do you /really/ want to play that way? It's just a casual tournament bro" fit when I deny you shots with your PS 8's because you fired first with a PS 6. Because of "fly casual", people fly sloppy and expect to have their hand held.

But that's different than my definition of fly casual. If in that situation the players were playing by my definition, that player wouldn't even have the opportunity to feel offended because as he is going down to make measurements for his PS 6, his opponent would inform him that he may have forgot to shoot with his PS 8, and then allow him to do so. Not because the player needs or deserves to be coached on how to fly his own list, but because, simply put, it's a nice thing to do. I'm sure that burns your eyes to read with how hug happy these forums are, right? But even on that note, I don't expect a player to continue to do this throughout. First time, kindly remind them of a possible missed opportunity, but let them know you're going to take full advantage if they fail to do it again.

As to your definition of fly casual- To me, there are some, what I would call, tactics you use I don't agree with (mainly denying actions to ships when the player reveals multiple dials at once when you had previously allowed them to perform actions when this occured, but that conversation has been had and no need to discuss it again here), but if you say you play that way and people respect you and aren't bothered by it, and most importantly you personally aren't bothered or effected negatively by it, then keep doing what you do.

But, the fact that our definitions of fly casual differ so greatly I think clearly shows it's kind of a rotted theme, no matter how good the original intention was.

A few weeks ago my opponent fired with his PS 7 before my PS 9. He didn't rush me, and I only realized until well after the attack happened. I went to go attack with it, realized it was PS 9 and should have fired first, then informed my opponent of the situation. He said, "so what does that mean?" And I told him that it was a missed opportunity and it's his choice. After considering it, he very politely denied me my shot. He was flying very casually, and I was polite back to him because I was flying casually.

Also just to be clear, I only WAAC at tournaments. In a non-tournament game I remind my opponents of forgotten things and recommend things to them like good barrel rolls and such. I don't want to win a practice or 'for fun' game because my opponent forgot to cloak, I want to get practice in against lists flown optimally. But if no one wants to wake the Fuhrer in order to get permission to move the Panzers up to the beaches? Don't mind if I do. Sleep tight lol.

But a tournament, even a $5 3 round one? I want store credit so I can get another TAP, and I'm not going to allow you to perform a missed trigger in order to rob myself of MoV so that way I end up losing a place in the standings.

I am relatively new to X-Wing, but have been a gamer for decades. I have been hyper-competative with the Mechwarrior and Mageknight clix games. Semi Competitive with 40K, and have played all of about 14 X-Wing games, 6 of which were at a store championship. I only wanted the C-3P0 card, so coming in dead last was not a problem for me, but it sure confused some players. I knew the outcome of my games, simply because they were games 4-10 for me, and my opponents were all around since wave 1. They were all great guys, and helped with tactics after the game, gave some pointers for future builds, and even pointed out mistakes in game for future reference.

OK, so we're five pages into the thread now, and you'll forgive me if I'm wrong but so far it doesn't appear as though anyone has answered the question raised by the OP...

Knowing and noticing this, while also sticking with X-wing from its begginings, I remeber the intiative back on these forums called "Fly Casual", advocated by Doug Kinney and others, promoting good sportsmanship and fun above all. Here comes my question: does anyone know any contact to people who ran that campaign? I wish to promote the same ideals here at my country. I know the part of the camping was printed t-shirts with it's logo and I'd like to ask for permission to use it - because frankly, shipping those t-shirts from across the ocean in not so large amounts would make them a bit pricey...

HI Shanturin - I believe Doug goes by the username hothie on the forum (correct me if I'm wrong) - maybe send him a private message and he might be able to help you out?