Since the introduction of the 1-point Tractor Beam cannon I've been thinking lately about how there are no turrets that cost less than 2 points and there are no turrets with a range of 1-3.

Imagine if we had a "Flechette Turret" in the game that costs only 1 point and has a range of 1-3 with a 3-dice attack ... but the trade-off is that this turret does ZERO damage. If the attack hits, cancel all dice results and deal one stress to the defender.

Would you want or use such a turret?

Even if the flechette turret doesn't hit and deal stress there is a good chance that the defender will burn focus or evade tokens trying to avoid the stress from the flechette turret ... thus leaving the defender without tokens for the next attack from another ship in your list.

It obviously wouldn't be good for dealing damage, but I can imagine uses for such a cheap turret.

The first idea that springs into my head is that you could build a swarm of five BTL-A4 Y-wings; they can't fire outside their primary arc but they each get a chance to deal 2 damage (3 damage at range 1) and a chance to deal 1 stress.

The turret is also paying for the 360 degree arc.

The turret is also paying for the 360 degree arc.

That is why I made it deal zero damage. The Flechette cannon deals damage and stress at range 1-3 for 2 points. I figured if I wanted a flechette turret to cost only 1 point it can't be as good as the cannon.

The other reason I think a 1-point turret like this is justified is that there are several ships that can ignore stress or even "benefit" (to some extent) from stress in this game. Heck, even if the defender hates stress they could potentially just accept the attack from a flechette turret and take the stress to avoid burning focus or evade tokens.

You can't make a "stress turret" that does zero damage cost as much as turrets that deal damage.

Double stressing people with Chopper? Yes please

Double stressing people with Chopper? Yes please

I didn't think of that ... but that would be another great use for a turret like this!

Ah, let us make the most sucky Secondary a turret!
pure evil.

just to make sure Flechette Cannon is miserable enough.

Stresshog would love this.... 3 stresses a turn

Ah, let us make the most sucky Secondary a turret!

pure evil.

just to make sure Flechette Cannon is miserable enough.

The only thing "sucky" and "miserable" about the Flechette Cannon is that it doesn't allow stacking stress ... but I keep hoping that the devs will update the FAQ to allow Flechette Cannons to give stress even if a ship already has stress.

That is the only thing hurting the Flechette Cannon ... and if the devs corrrect that error in a future FAQ we would see more Flechette Cannons in the game as well.

It's not like the ion cannon can't deal an ion token if a ship already has an ion token. If it did then far fewer people would use ion cannons ... and that is why few people currently use flechette cannons.

That's why I didn't say anything about the flechette turret only being able to deal stress if the defender doesn't have stress ... because that limitation is TERRIBLE. And I hope the devs read this.

... Because we want stresshog to deal three stress in a single round for a 5pt discount?

Sure, you lose the chance for a point or two of damage over the course of the game, bit that's a bargain for its primary goal and expected life span.

I've never understood the stresshog argument. There are quite a few lists out there that eat stresshogs for lunch and some ships (and upgrades) that can turn stress into an advantage. I just don't see the imbalance problem that other people see with lists that stack stress.

Can a stresshog list that deals multiple stress be powerful against a list that depends on actions? Yep. Can you build a wide variety of lists that can still murder stresshogs even if they deal lots of stress? Yep.

It's not like the problem that existed with TLTs obliterating arc-dodgers before the introduction of autothrusters. There are many counters to stresshogs.

I'll happily put a list up against a swarm of stresshogs over triple U-boats or a pre-nerf TIE Phantom any day.

5 Y-Wings with Flechette turret and Unhinged or r2 astromech. I suspect aces will not do a single action or red maneuvers past the 2 round of the game.

The reason you can stack ion tokens, but not stress tokens, is that stacking ion tokens doesn't do anything; once you resolve the ion 'effect' all tokens go away. Normally, the following movement phase.

Stress, by comparison, stays with you for several turns. I've no problem with a flechette turret, but 1 point is way too cheap for a range 1-3 stress-causing ability.

Frankly, I think the flechette cannon is good. It's just best used on the Scyk - its function is to give the scyk a third attack dice for relatively few points; the stress is a side bonus.

5 Y-Wings with Flechette turret and Unhinged or r2 astromech. I suspect aces will not do a single action or red maneuvers past the 2 round of the game.

Not "all" aces. Yes, there are many interceptor aces that hate stress, but if your list is heavily weighted with ships that hate stress you have to expect to be vulnerable to lists that deal stress.

I've run lists where I lost because my ships absolutely melt when facing arc-dodgers, or can't handle turrets, or I have aces that die horrible deaths as soon as a ship shows up that has a way to lower my pilot skill.

One of my favorite elements of X-wing is that the devs appear to be trying to make everything vulnerable to at least one other thing ... usually multiple other things. Yes, one ship, pilot, or upgrade might have a huge advantage against a certain type of opponent ... but it is vulnerable against another type of opponent.

For example, stresshogs sacrifice burst damage for the ability to deal stress ... which makes them more vulnerable against ships that deal heavy burst damage (alpha strikes) and don't rely on actions (or have pilot abilities or upgrades that turn stress into an advantage or allow them to ignore stress).

Ships that deal multiple stress are no more OP than ships that can roll 4 attack dice at range 3, or TLTs that roll six attack dice every turn, or an arc-dodger with the ability to treat all attacks as range 1, or ships that can roll 5 or even 6 green dice to avoid hits ... it's all part of the beautiful variety of list building in X-wing.

The reason you can stack ion tokens, but not stress tokens, is that stacking ion tokens doesn't do anything; once you resolve the ion 'effect' all tokens go away. Normally, the following movement phase.

The reason you can stack ion tokens, but not stress tokens, is that stacking ion tokens doesn't do anything; once you resolve the ion 'effect' all tokens go away. Normally, the following movement phase.

Stress, by comparison, stays with you for several turns. I've no problem with a flechette turret, but 1 point is way too cheap for a range 1-3 stress-causing ability.

Frankly, I think the flechette cannon is good. It's just best used on the Scyk - its function is to give the scyk a third attack dice for relatively few points; the stress is a side bonus.

except that it costs....4 points Т_Т

on an overpriced ship.

Cost 3 Turret secondary

range 1-3 3 dice. if this attack hits add 1 stress and cancel all dice results. after adding the stress deal damage to the target equal to the number of stress tokens on the defending ship.

I'd be happy never to see another turret at all, personally.

Personally I'm not a massive fan of ANY turrets in the game.

Not in that I think any are OP, or that it ruins the game for me there being turrets (it would be hard to have a Millennium Falcon without them, and having a Star Wars spaceship game without the Millennium Falcon would be nigh-unthinkable).

Its just that for me a lot of the fun in X-Wing is using your dial and your arc to win the game - that thrill of a perfectly executed move where your TIE-fighter causes his ace to bump so that your ace can hit him hard in the flanks. Or that moment where you get that super-tight hard-1 turn near an asteroid, just avoiding it - a move which your opponent didn't forsee (him thinking you'd have to go the long way round - or land on the 'roid), so now you've got your ship, all it's actions intact, ready to blaze away at him)... That's what makes the game for me.

I think that turrets, for the most part, are not badly done in this game - I especially like how the Jumpmaster works (it's got a turret, but whether it's Dengars pilot ability or the U-boats, they've still got a good reason to get arcs on their enemies) in the latest wave.

Anyway,

TL;DR: Nah, no more turrets for me.

The other reason I think a 1-point turret like this is justified is that there are several ships that can ignore stress or even "benefit" (to some extent) from stress in this game...

Could you shoot at your own guy to give him stress?

Frankly, I think the flechette cannon is good. It's just best used on the Scyk - its function is to give the scyk a third attack dice for relatively few points; the stress is a side bonus.

Flechette cannon is capped at one damage.

If your going to fix turrets, can we get the Blaster Turret fixed so it doesn't need the Focus?

And can we have the TLT Cannon, and the Heavy Laser turret also?

Cost 3 Turret secondary

range 1-3 3 dice. if this attack hits add 1 stress and cancel all dice results. after adding the stress deal damage to the target equal to the number of stress tokens on the defending ship.

That will make the cries over TLT look like nothing. Getting hit by 4 of those in a single round is 10 points of damage. The second round gets even nastier.

Cost 3 Turret secondary

range 1-3 3 dice. if this attack hits add 1 stress and cancel all dice results. after adding the stress deal damage to the target equal to the number of stress tokens on the defending ship.

That will make the cries over TLT look like nothing. Getting hit by 4 of those in a single round is 10 points of damage. The second round gets even nastier.

make it unique or something special new like squad limited to 2

The reason you can stack ion tokens, but not stress tokens, is that stacking ion tokens doesn't do anything; once you resolve the ion 'effect' all tokens go away. Normally, the following movement phase.

That is the case with small ships, but large ships require 2 ion tokens. Can you imagine how useless having two ships with ion cannons would be against large ships if the Ion cannon could only deal ion tokens to ships that don't already have ion tokens? Most competitive lists that rely on ionizing opponents have two ion turrets or two ion cannons just in case they face an opponent with large ships.

The point is that Ion tokens above what is needed to Ionize have no further effect and are removed during the following activation phase. If you get 20 ion tokens in a round it has the exact same effect as if you had received one (two for a large ship). 20 stress tokens on the other hand have just denied a ship red maneuvers and actions for the entire game.

I'm leaving Huge ships out of the discussion for now as the ion token mechanics are completely different.