I haven't tried it yet, but I was kicking a Rebel list around that uses Esege, Garvin, and Dutch. Garvin would end up dumb firing a plasma, but Dutch and Esege would get full mods on their munitions. Starting to sound better to me after reading this thread.

I ran a list like that a while back and it did well. I'll dig up the precise list and post it in this thread.

Ahhh Zoidberg, you're becoming a crafty consumer!

Here's my build:

Garvin 29

Plasma Torpedoes

Guidance Chips

Dutch Vander 31

R2-D6

Deadeye

Extra Munitions

Proton Torpedoes

Guidance Chips

Esege Tuketu 40

Extra Munitions

Homing Missile

Seismic Chargers

Recon Specialist

Guidance Chips

The concept is that Garvin acquires a target lock, Dutch does the same and passes the extra TL to Esege. Esege takes a double focus.

Garvin fires first, with the plasma torp's shield killing ability, the chips, and a focus from Esege to back it up. Ideally, Garvin the passes a focus to Dutch who then fires his first Torpedo at the same target with target lock. Esege follows up with a very accurate Homing Missile.

I don't know the math, but I think it's safe to assume 10-11 hits conservatively. That's a lot to avoid with 2 agility.

Ok, here is the list ran. It was actually Nera, Esege, and Dutch. Keep in mind I ran this pre-Wave 8, hence no Guidance Chips, but it's the obvious addition. From memory, I actually ran Plasma Torps and gave Nera Munitions Failsafe with the extra point. Now I would run Protons and give her GCs.

The idea was that Nera would focus to fire her torps; Dutch would give her a TL and she would use one of Esege's focuses (focii?) to maximise the modification of her torp strikes. Is a very synergistic list and is weakened considerably with the loss of members. But given the inherent durability HP point wise, it took a lot of focus fire to bring them down.

Another important thing about keeping to all PS 4. A U-Boat opponent has to place all of his ships first, whereas with one PS 2 ship of yours already being put down, he's clued into where your PS 4's are going to go.

What about this as the third ship?

Green Squadron Pilot, Adaptability, Crack Shot, Homing Missiles, Guidance Chips = 25

It would be the final shot against Scouts, and so could kick in Crack Shot if they got lucky and you needed an extra damage pushed through. Against aces, it could flank or block. You wouldn't get a first turn strike against them, but Homing + Crack Shot is ready scary to token stackers, and it's a great blocker. It leaves points spare to put more goodies on the K-wings, like Intel Agent or bombs of whichever variety you like.

I like the idea, but do they hit as hard as Uboats? Without access to the Deadeye + Agromech combo, I worry maybe they don't. LRS may help with that though.

Regarding my above suggestion:

Green Squadron Pilot 19

Adaptability 0

Crack Shot 1

Homing Missile 5

Guidance Chips 0

25 points

Guardian Squadron Pilot 25

Homing Missile 5

Extra Munitions 2

Long Range Sensors 0

Autoblaster Turret 2

Intel Agent 1

Prox Mine 3

38

Guardian Squadron Pilot 25

Homing Missile 5

Extra Munitions 2

Long Range Sensors 0

Autoblaster Turret 2

Prox Mine 3

37

This is a very powerful alpha strike against lower PS ships, and between Autoblaster Turrets, 3 blockers guided by Intel Agent, and Prox Mine drops you're a living hell to low HP aces.

I like the idea, but do they hit as hard as Uboats? Without access to the Deadeye + Agromech combo, I worry maybe they don't. LRS may help with that though.

It's pretty much as hard. 4 dice TL/Focus is 4 hits about 75% of the time, I think (don't quote me on that, I sort of pulled that number from nowhere). It's not exactly as good as Protons on the Jumpmaster, but it's within spitting distance, and ignores an Evade token.

What about this as the third ship?

Green Squadron Pilot, Adaptability, Crack Shot, Homing Missiles, Guidance Chips = 25

It would be the final shot against Scouts, and so could kick in Crack Shot if they got lucky and you needed an extra damage pushed through. Against aces, it could flank or block. You wouldn't get a first turn strike against them, but Homing + Crack Shot is ready scary to token stackers, and it's a great blocker. It leaves points spare to put more goodies on the K-wings, like Intel Agent or bombs of whichever variety you like.

How about Thermal detonators instead of prox mines? They're action independent and would deny a white sloop and focus torpedo volley. The problem with the K-Wings is that when the U-Boats get behind them, they can't return fire with a second volley of HM's and just end up getting torpedoed from behind. If you can just start dropping these behind you, he's done ******. He's at PS 3 so you drop bombs after he's moved.

Regular bombs also synergize with SLAM. Drop a bomb, move, and SLAM for freebie damage.

This list has just gotten much more scary. Sometimes I consider keeping these concept builds I come up with to myself, but I end up sharing them anyways because I love talking about this game and someone always suggests something that vastly improves the list.

I like regular bombs, too. It's sort of a flex upgrade that you can shift depending on what you think the worst matchup is.

Edit: Ion Bomb could be pretty scary to Scouts and Aces both, especially when combined with an Intel Agent informed block that traps someone in the blast.

I like regular bombs, too. It's sort of a flex upgrade that you can shift depending on what you think the worst matchup is.

Edit: Ion Bomb could be pretty scary to Scouts and Aces both, especially when combined with an Intel Agent informed block that traps someone in the blast.

Drop Ion bombs, and do SLAM U-Turns and fire off the second volley of homing missiles.

I like regular bombs, too. It's sort of a flex upgrade that you can shift depending on what you think the worst matchup is.

Edit: Ion Bomb could be pretty scary to Scouts and Aces both, especially when combined with an Intel Agent informed block that traps someone in the blast.

Drop Ion bombs, and do SLAM U-Turns and fire off the second volley of homing missiles.

Remember with LRS, you'll have to be at Range 3+ to grab a lock, so you might need to use Ion Bombs to tarpit a ship so you can do a couple 3-banks away from the fight before grabbing a new TL and turning around.

Nice effort but it is just not cutting it and to be honest it is probably still going to lose against the very list it is trying to counter especially if you drop a Guardian to a Warden. So i would go with all Guardians and rather have one less ABT or look for other options.

You have the PS advantage, sadly it's still very difficult to get TLs on a single Jumpy to get the complete alpha-Strike in. If you do, you have a decent chance of killing it. But if you don't the Jumpys are nearly guaranteed to kill a Y-Wing in return. The 1 agility is a big difference in that situation actually.

I also prefer the flexibility of deadeye and R4 over the better Missiles you get. Barrel Roll is also in this case better than Slam since youare blocking better with your large base and get to shoot!

Against Aces the Missiles are actually a lot better because evades dont work, but getting an AB shot is really not going to ever happen at that PS. Also what you pay for your better PS is just wasted... Ps1 vs Ps 8 is better than PS 7 vs Ps8 because you oay less...(barring Predator ofc)

There is a reason why Jumpmasters are so hyped, and no one is playing K-Wing alpha strike lists.

K's are really good ships, but they do not have the incredible value that these scouts have for 25 points.

I hereby move that the Guardian Squadron pilot with EM, Chimps/LRS, a missile, and maybe a turret be called a G-Man.

Nice effort but it is just not cutting it and to be honest it is probably still going to lose against the very list it is trying to counter especially if you drop a Guardian to a Warden. So i would go with all Guardians and rather have one less ABT or look for other options.

You have the PS advantage, sadly it's still very difficult to get TLs on a single Jumpy to get the complete alpha-Strike in. If you do, you have a decent chance of killing it. But if you don't the Jumpys are nearly guaranteed to kill a Y-Wing in return. The 1 agility is a big difference in that situation actually.

I also prefer the flexibility of deadeye and R4 over the better Missiles you get. Barrel Roll is also in this case better than Slam since youare blocking better with your large base and get to shoot!

Against Aces the Missiles are actually a lot better because evades dont work, but getting an AB shot is really not going to ever happen at that PS. Also what you pay for your better PS is just wasted... Ps1 vs Ps 8 is better than PS 7 vs Ps8 because you oay less...(barring Predator ofc)

There is a reason why Jumpmasters are so hyped, and no one is playing K-Wing alpha strike lists.

K's are really good ships, but they do not have the incredible value that these scouts have for 25 points.

I bid to PS 4 in order to screw over triple U-Boat. I have Autoblaster Turrets because I hate Soontir and it's to the point now where you can literally just slap 5 Autoblaster Turret Y-Wings down on the table and win an SC, well previous to wave 8 of course.

Soontir is so ridiculous that if you don't build a list that can deal with him, you WILL lose the game. Either you try and take him out early and do nothing to him, or you don't shoot at him all game and now you have to face end game Fel which is even worse now.

If a Soontir player just dodges your arcs or just shrugs and dice mods his way through your torps, you're ******. Of if he just blasts forward during the approach from range 4 into range 1 he can arc dodge you at range 1. The ABT prevents that.

Range 1 with a turret isn't that hard to get.

I need to practice more with the list and try out the Green Squadron variant Biophysical suggested so I'm not saying it's foolproof.

I ran a triple Y-Wing ordnance list last night.

Gray Squadron with IC Turret, Plasma Torps, Proton Torps, R2 Unit, and Guidance Chips. Fire before most other generics, and still move early enough to block aces. Once the Ordnance is expended, start circling and using those turrets!

Went 2 from 2.

I was thinking about this list concept and thought I might add to the discussion - albeit a couple weeks late. So rebels have to find a verstile list that deals with triple u boats and imperial aces. Despite having access to a 5 a-wing crack swarm, I think this concept could do it. I might be getting ahead of myself and being deluded, but how about integrating a decent agile ace instead of a guardian? My idea is as such:

2x Guardian Squadron pilot

-Extra munitions

-Homing Missiles

-Intelligence agent

-Autoblaster turret

Tycho Celchu

-Chardaan Refit

-Title

-Rage

-Push the Limit

-Autothrusters

It has a decent alpha strike (not as good as 3 guardians)

Intelligence agent applies some well sought information regarding high PS aces

Intelligence agent and SLAM leaves for some nice blocking opportunities where tycho can pounce in

ABT is still deadly for aces

Tycho gives a little bit more long term survivability.

Alternatively you could replace tycho with Jake and have tactician k-wings/seismic/ion bombs

Or

You could have Nera dantels w/ deadeye, plasma torps, extra munitions and guidance chips.

Or (Just spontaneously thinking of an idea...)

Have biggs with r4d6, IA and implement prox mines on the guardians (no intel agent)

Thoughts?

Well, seeing how it's already been resurrected, how about bringing a different tool to the table?

Two Guardians specced as you suggest Para, flying with BB8/VI Wes Janson? You lose the third alpha, but you cause new problems for scouts and aces alike. It also gives you a little insurance against higher ps-bidding ordnance users (something that's surely going to develop soon), with Wes nerfing their guns, and the Ks getting a chance to return fire.

Well, seeing how it's already been resurrected, how about bringing a different tool to the table?

Two Guardians specced as you suggest Para, flying with BB8/VI Wes Janson? You lose the third alpha, but you cause new problems for scouts and aces alike. It also gives you a little insurance against higher ps-bidding ordnance users (something that's surely going to develop soon), with Wes nerfing their guns, and the Ks getting a chance to return fire.

I really, REALLY approve of this idea! If you can perfectly position this list against one U boat - you have a distinct advantage- your 11 red dice versus your opponents 2. That right there sets you up for success! Even if you have to engage against 2 U boats, you're still only one torpedo - which is still a great bargain!

Against aces and especially against fel - he has an oh crap moment. Wes beats him in PS, has out of movement repositioning and is able to remove one of his focii. That synergises perfectly with homing missles, negating his evade token. If the guardians can have range 3 in arc - connecting with the missles is much more probable. Another thing in this scenario, if you catch fel with his pants down by being in arc with your force (slightly possible), him turtling up is great for your force. Wes removes a focus token, homing missles negate evade, practically forcing fel to use his last focus token defensively!

Really great idea, Cyber forum High Five!

Chips over LRS. Still though not as effective as with deadeye the Scouts can hit anyone in their firing arc. As for the TL well at least with the PWT they can get a 2 dice attack with rerolls.

Faction clones of other successful builds have to beat the original. One could argue that Brobots was just a Scum version of Buzzsaw shuttles. Well whatever the case is you don't see Buzzsaws anymore as Borbots are the better choice. I don't think this build will surpass U-boats. The EPT makes all the difference.