Friends,

I'm a big fan of bombers. When a pair of them races across the table in unison it is just delightful. So, with Imp Vets on the way I revisted my bombers and began to build a list with a pair of them.

I ran into a bit of a problem, I can't choose between Guidance Chips or Long Range Sensors. I have no experience with either.

Can someone please outline the benefits of each card and/or recommend a good build. I was leaning towards Jonus and Gamma Squadron Pilot, both with Assault Missiles and LRS .. but this is about 50 pts and I can't see them being overly effective after that initial alpha strike.

Help me FFG community, you're my only hope.

LRS for low PS, GC for high.

I too love bombers, but have little experience with bombers with Guidance Chips as I normally pack my bombers with Proxy Mines, but this is a choice that I have also pondered and I came to a decision regarding it.

It comes down to your load out. Concussion missiles come loaded up with a 'built in' guidance chip, allowing you to change a blank focus to a hit. That to me is what makes concussion missiles the best out there for the missile slot, next to Assault Missiles. With Long Range Scanners and non-title bombers (because they lack the EPT slot) you can target lock first turn or second turn, then the following turns use focus, launch missiles with target lock and spend your focus token to help out, if you roll 2 hits, a focus and a blank, you spend the focus and change the blank and boom, 4 shots with concussion missiles.

Without Long Range Scanners and non title bombers you just rely on Guidance Chips to change a result and hope for as many hits as you can with the target lock being spent to send the missiles downrange. To me the Long Range Scanners allow you to enter combat from a distance with the target lock already there (first turn action) and then you can get yourself a focus, spend the target lock, and use the good wills of the Dice Gods and your focus token to help you with those red dice.

For Pilots like Jonus and Rhymer, you can use that EPT slot for Deadeye and use a Focus instead of a Target Lock, but once again, situational. Would you rather spend the Target Lock to send the missiles downrange and hope you roll hits and eyeballs or use the focus to send them downrange and maybe use the target lock to re-roll the dice that didnt land in your favor. Long Range Scanners allow you to obtain the target lock early, strike, fly out of range and acquire another target lock, while guidance chips just helps you with dice if you aren't already using concussion missiles and want to use other missiles or torpedoes.

TLDR It depends on your list and use of specific ordinance and tactics.

LRS if your just firing one torp, chips if you're going to fire more than once.

That's my thinking anyway.

LRS if you can't take Deadeye and are low PS, GChips if you can take Deadeye or are high PS.

Posted a thread asking about this a while ago, and it boils down to this.

Picture a PS2 Scimitar with a Homing Missile approaching a PS4 X-wing.

In the first situation, the ship has Guidance Chips installed.

• The first round, the two ships are out of range of each other. Their actions are fairly meaningless.
• The second round, the TIE bomber moves first. It's still out of attack range of the X-wing and can't target lock it, so it takes a focus action. The X-wing moves second and moves into attack range. With no target lock the TIE bomber cannot fire its missile and thus the two ships trade primary weapon shots.
• The third round, the now damaged TIE bomber moves first again. It target locks, leaving it with no defensive action. The X-wing shoots first and may kill the bomber before it can shoot, leaving the ordnance unused. It can also race into Range 1 and exploit the R2-3 range restriction on the Homing Missile.

In the second situation, the ship has Long Range Scanners.

• The first round, the two ships are out of range of each other. The bomber target locks the X-wing while out of range.
• The second round, the TIE bomber moves first. It's out of attack range of the X-wing and takes a focus action. The X-wing moves second and moves into attack range. The X-wing fires first and may damage the bomber. The bomber then fires its Homing Missile. Ordnance delivered, damage done to the X-wing.
• The third round the TIE bomber and X-wing trade primary shots. The TIE bomber no longer risks dying before firing its missile as it has fired it already, and this round it has defensive focus making it harder to kill.

In summary, Long Range Scanners are advantageous for attacking a higher pilot skill opponent with ordnance.

I believe the damage expectation for Focus + Target Lock on a four die attack is slightly lower than Target Lock + Guidance Chips, but that damage doesn't matter if you fire much later or not at all.

I believe the damage expectation for Focus + Target Lock on a four die attack is slightly lower than Target Lock + Guidance Chips, but that damage doesn't matter if you fire much later or not at all.

The expected damage for a 4 dice attack with TL + Focus is 3.75. With 4 dice with TL + Chips its 3.68. So for Homing missiles LRS is superior. Now the 3 dice ordnance (IPM, AHM) that don't require spending the TL, there isn't really any difference between them. Guidance Chips are better on the ordnance that have built in dice modifications, which I believe are only the Proton Torp and Concussion Missile. However, you still run into the problem of getting that TL effectively if your PS is lower.

I believe the damage expectation for Focus + Target Lock on a four die attack is slightly lower than Target Lock + Guidance Chips, but that damage doesn't matter if you fire much later or not at all.

The expected damage for a 4 dice attack with TL + Focus is 3.75. With 4 dice with TL + Chips its 3.68. So for Homing missiles LRS is superior. Now the 3 dice ordnance (IPM, AHM) that don't require spending the TL, there isn't really any difference between them. Guidance Chips are better on the ordnance that have built in dice modifications, which I believe are only the Proton Torp and Concussion Missile. However, you still run into the problem of getting that TL effectively if your PS is lower.

Proton torps work best with Guidance Chips; both Ptorps and Concussion work out the same mathematically, but one of them is giving you a crit rather than a hit for its internal modification.

Concussion missiles work out better with LRS, however, because your Focus token can already modify all the eyeballs you ever roll (which PTorps would help with), but not blanks (which PTorps can't).

It's importaint to know, though, that while LRS means you'll get a Focus but not Guidance Chips will always mean that your TIE Bombers will never hit as hard as the Jumpmasters; their specific perfect-storm set of upgrades (EPT for Deadeye, so they don't need to TL a target; Agromech for the R4 Agromech so spending a focus grants them a TL) will mean they will reign supreme in terms of ordnance capabilities.

... Of course, they also cost more, so there's that to bear in mind too; while their individual shots will hit harder, you can pretty easily field four such shots to their three; you can even manage five if you really wanted to!

I've been thinking about this alot as well. I've realized that deadeye really adds to your flexibility, So much so that even on a single shot it's worth it.

Right now, the most effective use of ordnance is massed. Massed fire means multiple ships, and that generally means lower pilot skill.

The part that can really blunt your plans is when your locked target gets out of your arc, not counting Nera. Deadeye gives you the opportunity to fire from the hip, in a single action, as long as they are in arc. As many of the forum Vets will tell you, range 3 is pretty big. It's not impossible to get a ps9 ace in arc at range 3 and you deny them the extra die on defense. Not bad.

The point is, LRS can help maximize deadeyed munitions. Firing from the hip is great, but with limited shots it is still better to have some mods. Hell, lighting up a target with all your target locks on turn 1 might even disrupt your opponent's plans, causing him to come at you piecemeal.

Obviously it would depend on the opponent's list. But are Assault Missiles too expensive? At 5 pts a pop, on 2 ships, that's 10% of our points on 1 shot .. which requires good weather. Concussion missiles are obviously better for non swarm/formation opponents.

Obviously it would depend on the opponent's list. But are Assault Missiles too expensive? At 5 pts a pop, on 2 ships, that's 10% of our points on 1 shot .. which requires good weather. Concussion missiles are obviously better for non swarm/formation opponents.

Assault Missiles do not self modify like Proton Torpedoes, Proton Rockets, (Advanced) Homing Missiles, Concussion Missiles, and Ion Pulse Missiles. You do not want a naked 4 attack dice shot + chips, it's going to suck. You want something like Homing Missiles which can use its own TL to modify + chips.

Stop accounting for swarm/formation opponents. No one flies them and even against swarms assault missiles aren't good. Build to counter Aces and U-Boats and fat ships like Ghosts and Dual Aggressors and other lists people actually play.

Besides, easily obtained 4/4 hit Homing Missile shots are good against everything lol.

you guys are missing the boat here. I did this list this weekend to 2nd place and a lot of fun

2x Scimitar, w/ chips, concussion missiles, extra munitions, seismic charges, tracers

1x Scimitar w/ chips, homing missile, extra munitions, seismic charges

1x scimitar w/ chips, assault missiles, extra munitions seismic charges

It was in a word, Amazing. the idea is to move up and focus with the whole squad every turn. ideally the first tracer will hit allowing the other 3 to shoot missiles with a focus and chips. You don't need deadeye because of tracers. You do need 2 tracers, incase you run up against someone who can strip a focus, Wes or Palob. And the bombs are insurance. if someone goes on a flank maneuver, drop with all 4. It is a huge pie plate of damage, and if you get lucky, you will catch someone with all 4. Tycho died from full in a ball of bombs. You have enough ordinance to melt just about anything out there. Might have a problem with Ghost or Deci in one turn. but you still have munitions for the next turn. Was a lot of fun. Took bro bots to a tie and melted the other 2 i fought. Still need lots of practice and testing but I really like it.

weeeeeeeelll....

rename the thread and it'll be true

It depends on the weaponry you have on board. If you are using stuff which requires a target lock, but doesn't use it go for the sensors.

The problem with this modification is that it is useless at closer ranges so will disallow target locking for the most of the game.

I'd go for chips in most of the cases unless you really need to target lock and fire some torpedoes in earlier stages of the game or your missiles do not exhaust the TC token.

My Scimitar loadout will definitely be LRC, EM, a missile/torpedo and a bomb. Being able to hit them with a missile and follow up with an unavoidable bomb the next turn is really powerful, unless you happen to get a horrible crit on the first pass.

Stop accounting for swarm/formation opponents. No one flies them and even against swarms assault missiles aren't good. Build to counter Aces and U-Boats and fat ships like Ghosts and Dual Aggressors and other lists people actually play.

I disagree with the first point more because one of the two proper swarm players in the area is me (one TIE fighter swarm, one Z-95 swarm) than being able to argue that swarms are rare. I'd still agree that assault missiles aren't that awesome, though.

The second point I do agree with. TIE fighters aren't bad at dodging ordnance if they know it's coming - agility 3 with an evade token is not exactly whisper or soontir fel, but it's far from an automatic hit.

More importantly, don't assume a TIE swarm has to come in in a tight box. Especially with Youngster, I can fly quite loose with a swarm and still get all the dice modifiers I need because unlike Howlrunner, Youngster isn't tied to range 1.

Finally - more a point with Long Range Scanners versus a Black Squadron Pilot than anything - yes, you can lock up a TIE on turn 1. but you're telegraphing your target and nothing stops me breaking that one ship off from the swarm. I'll trade not shooting with a 15 point TIE for a turn denying you the use of 40+ points of bombers' main weapons.

Assault missiles aren't bad. I would never use them as a primary arm for the reasons above - no built-in dice modification and no ability to use the target lock that fires them either - but throwing one assault missile into a primarily concussion salvo if you have a point spare is not an awful idea. It's actually a lot better against heavy rebel/scum snub-fighters - 1-2 agility ain't gonna avoid the missile, which means that the splash damage is more or less guaranteed, which helps persuade people to break up formations. Persuading people to spread out limits their ability to concentrate fire.

Even then, of course, most rebel heavy fighters obsess over shield regeneration, so it's not that great an option.

Long Range Scanners are best for a cheap bomber, especially if loaded with a single missile volley. I'd agree that the best ones to pack are probably concussion, or flechette torpedoes. Homing missiles are okay, but that extra point takes you over the magic 20 points if you want a pure bomber squad. I think scanner-loaded bombers are better for a 'filler' in a squad, though.

2x Scimitar, w/ chips, concussion missiles, extra munitions, seismic charges, tracers

1x Scimitar w/ chips, homing missile, extra munitions, seismic charges

1x scimitar w/ chips, assault missiles, extra munitions seismic charges

It was in a word, Amazing.

Would love to fly 4 of these bad boys. Alas, only have 2 at moment and wanted to get a game in with them before Imp Vets drops and bombers become 'on trend'. Seismics are a must!

The problem with this modification is that it is useless at closer ranges so will disallow target locking for the most of the game.

That's exactly what I'm worried about. With LRS we can get a brilliant alpha strike in there .. but you're kinda stooged for the rest of the game. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how to pad out the rest of the the list. At the moment I have a Kath at 48 points. I don't think she's the best choice though.

Stop accounting for swarm/formation opponents. No one flies them and even against swarms assault missiles aren't good. Build to counter Aces and U-Boats and fat ships like Ghosts and Dual Aggressors and other lists people actually play.

Besides, easily obtained 4/4 hit Homing Missile shots are good against everything lol.

But splash damage is so appealing . homing missiles are 5 pts a pop. That's a huge investment. If I could guarantee 2 shots with them .. maybe.

The point is, LRS can help maximize deadeyed munitions. Firing from the hip is great, but with limited shots it is still better to have some mods. Hell, lighting up a target with all your target locks on turn 1 might even disrupt your opponent's plans, causing him to come at you piecemeal.

I hard though eh? Needing an Elite slot for Deadeye means a higher costed pilot .. which negates the point of your earlier point regarding massed fire.

In summary, Long Range Scanners are advantageous for attacking a higher pilot skill opponent with ordnance.

Your post was great as it clearly outlined the scenarios which we might expect to encounter with either upgrade. Thank you very much! You make a very convincing argument for LRS. Particularly if I'm wanting to run several low PS pilots.

LRS if your just firing one torp, chips if you're going to fire more than once.

That's my thinking anyway.

This was my initial thinking too. Getting the bombers back to R3 for a TL might be tough. I had thought of putting tracers on another ship to help re-engage.

LRS for low PS, GC for high.

This seems to be the general consensus.

If you are worried about the range restriction on LRS you haven't flown Bombers enough imho, slow-roll, drop bombs then either move 4-forward to prepare, or go ahead and use that 5K + 1-Forward.

Edit: I wouldn't recommend putting LRS on all your Bombers however.

If you are worried about the range restriction on LRS you haven't flown Bombers enough imho, slow-roll, drop bombs then either move 4-forward to prepare, or go ahead and use that 5K + 1-Forward.

True. I had considered their speed. But at the time of writing I had filled the rest of the list with Kath, Lone Wolf, S-thread Tracers, Seismic charges, Flechette Cannon and Rebel Captive (48 pts). Any player would know that staying in R2 of the bombers keeps them safe and because of Lone Wolf, Kath won't be there with them.

If you are worried about the range restriction on LRS you haven't flown Bombers enough imho, slow-roll, drop bombs then either move 4-forward to prepare, or go ahead and use that 5K + 1-Forward.

True. I had considered their speed. But at the time of writing I had filled the rest of the list with Kath, Lone Wolf, S-thread Tracers, Seismic charges, Flechette Cannon and Rebel Captive (48 pts). Any player would know that staying in R2 of the bombers keeps them safe and because of Lone Wolf, Kath won't be there with them.

Just checking regarding carrying tracers and LRS. The LRS prevents you from acquiring a target lock at range 1 and 2. So tracers is somewhat useless if you're equipped with LRS.

Yes?

Yes.

I had an idea that id like to try out

4 bombers

The two in front with lrs, and the 3 in back with gc.

That way the ones in front can have their target locks early on to set up for their alpha strike.

Meanwhile the ones in back can get into position and fire off their payload next round

Problem with bombers though

1) arc dodgers

2) two agility they melt from tlt

3) susceptible to crits

As much as it like them, I still don't think it'll be enough. Not from what I've seen so far

They don't really have a way to mitigate dmg.

Again only two agility, no autothrusters, and no evade action.

Sadly they make great cheap crew carriers. And I've done well with 3 escorting vessery

Can someone please outline the benefits of each card and/or recommend a good build. I was leaning towards Jonus and Gamma Squadron Pilot,

First off.....let me say that Jonus is a trap. Once Extra Munitions has come out, it's cheaper to just get Homing Missiles for your Bombers than it is to pay for the points for Jonus, who doesn't even get to use his own ability. Oh, and you can only re-roll 2 dice, instead of all of them.

LRS for low PS, GC for high.

This is really the key. The whole problem with low PS Bombers is getting that TL and being able to use it before you are destroyed. I've flown a lot of Tie Bombers and it's a challenge. Oh, I've done it and there are ways of getting it, but just being able to grab that TL ahead of time is so much easier.

Now, you can use the Focus to modify your dice even more, but you may not have to. Let's say you have someone like a Soontir Fel or someone else. Maybe using that action to Barrel Roll will put you in a better place. It's a good thing to do to move to ensure you get to fire at who you want to fire at. It's really easy to keep anyone in arc with the slow 1 movement and the BR action. A one bank and then BR will cover a lot of flank and stop all those ships that think they can just use the magic phrase "arc dodge" and auto win.

If you have a high enough PS that you aren't worried about getting the TL on an enemy, then you can go Guidance Chip. Or.....if you have an EPT you can go with Deadeye and GC. That's probably preferable.

If you are worried about the range restriction on LRS you haven't flown Bombers enough imho, slow-roll, drop bombs then either move 4-forward to prepare, or go ahead and use that 5K + 1-Forward.

Edit: I wouldn't recommend putting LRS on all your Bombers however.

I agree with this. If you fly Bombers, you tend to notice that they don't turn well. It's usually best to just 5 K-turn and then go green for a turn to get into a better position. With this, it's usually not a challenge to find yourself out of R2 to grab another TL. I have not proxied LRS, but I don't think it will be too much of a problem. Will there be times when it will? Of course. Will it be crippling to you? No.

Personally, I think Homing Missiles are the best to use with LRS Tie Bombers. For one, you might not use your TL if you happen to roll extremely well. The chances aren't high, but it is possible. Also, I find the averages are much better on a TL and Focus Homing Missile than just GC and Proton Torp. Both are good, but Homing Missiles are better to even out the averages. Being able to re-roll dice usually means you get better averages. If you roll all blanks with the Proton Torp, you only modify one. I've been there.

If you are worried about the range restriction on LRS you haven't flown Bombers enough imho, slow-roll, drop bombs then either move 4-forward to prepare, or go ahead and use that 5K + 1-Forward.

True. I had considered their speed. But at the time of writing I had filled the rest of the list with Kath, Lone Wolf, S-thread Tracers, Seismic charges, Flechette Cannon and Rebel Captive (48 pts). Any player would know that staying in R2 of the bombers keeps them safe and because of Lone Wolf, Kath won't be there with them.

Just checking regarding carrying tracers and LRS. The LRS prevents you from acquiring a target lock at range 1 and 2. So tracers is somewhat useless if you're equipped with LRS.

Yes?

Ahhh, so if Gamma Squadron Pilot has LRS, he/she can't be gifted a TL from someone else if the Target Lockee is within R1-R2.

I didn't consider that. I thought the card read that the Gamma Pilot can't acquire their own TL but assumed it would be OK to receive a TL from elsewhere.

I was wrong.

Correct.

Personally, I'm not sold on Tracers. They take an attack to fire them and you have to hit. Unless you are using Blount, it's not worth it. I'd rather just use a real attack and try to fly better to get the TL. I do love the just stay out of R3 tactic, and then bum rush them to R1 to try to bump. You grab the TL and they can't focus fire. You get to drop Seismic Charges next turn as you 5 K-turn behind them.....with a TL to fire.