Hi folks,

need some advise on how to hadel the situation when the charackters want to flee.

For example:

two PCs fighting a squad of evil Stormtroppers.

they suddenly realize that they are out numbered. And decide to flee the scenerie.

One player starts at Midrange

The other is engaged

what option is better:

1. let one more round happen: both PCs using theire manuveur and action for a movement well the enemy could do the same but they are minions and will only use one manuveur to move and the action for a shoot.

So the chase would start on Short and big distance for the players.

Or

2. start the chase Immideatly at, well, engaged and midrange.

and then how long let the chase go on? just 2-3 turns or until the escaping heroes reach extrem?

What if they get captured again (thx to bad dice luck) let the enemys shoot one time an allow them to escape once again or should they have to wait at least 1-2 turns until a new orpputunity opens to run?

Could realy need some ideas on this one...

If it's their turn to act I say just start the chase.

Dunno where the chase is happening but if in a city or whatever use stellar phenomona and setbacks etc to simulate dodin and weavin through stuff.

Then just let the dice decide. They should give enough results to give you the narrative leeway to let the PCs get away, so it need not be all determined by range.

First, give yourself an inward cheer that your players are acting smart and running when they should be. MY players would stand their ground and "hope for some good rolls" if faced with a battalion of elite storm troopers, AT-ST support, TIE air cover, rancor cavalry and a squad of Darth Vaders.

If you're concerned it might be too easy to run, give the enemy a chance to cut them off from their preferred escape route. Don't make it impossible to escape, unless a capture is necessary to the story. Consider the detention block scene in A New Hope: The reinforcements cut off their only escape route so they improvised and went down the garbage chute. As for what range to start the chase, pick the range where there's a majority of the enemies or players. If most of the players are at medium, and one is engaged, then the enemy around that one guy are caught unprepared and he gets to his friends before everyone else gives chase. If the majority of enemy are at range, while only a couple are close, begin at range again, and let the close guys wait for their friends before giving pursuit. Alternatively, you can have your players give covering fire or some such to let the engaged guy escape, THEN begin the chase as a group.

Wow, just noticed something in the post above. Would you really force the PCs to be captured to further your plot? Isn't that something that should just happen, or not ,as a result of an encounter. My players would be screaming " Choo choo" ie. railroading.

Please no offense meant. Is that sort of thing supported in this system?

The short answer is, sure, why not? Any system supports this, I'm not sure why you think some systems don't support it. Maybe I'm reading too much into your comment, but the implication seems to be that all encounters should be scaled so that the players have even odds of "winning"...? I don't find that very interesting. Capture (and escape) can often be extremely fun...really it all depends how the GM handles it, and has little to do with the mechanics of a system.

2P51 and Admiral Tergon

thanks for the good points.

But what would you do if the Runaway Check fails miserably.

It seems odd to me to say "oh you were cought up by thoses Stormis but hey no prob just try again..."

Would you have them to stay in battle for at least X round before they can make a new attemped?

If it were me running this, I'd have the unlucky player(s) captured and escorted back to containment for processing. Then you've got an opportunity for quite an exciting new encounter! It could be come the focus of this particular session!

Sounds like your players might be the sort to rise to the challenge of a changing scenario like this. As Terghon said, not all groups are as willing or able to adapt plans on the fly.

A discussion with a couple of my players came up with this.

The GM can plan anything he wants, can even improvise anything he wants. If you want to get the players captured, rig up a really really tough encounter designed to capture them. IF however, they somehow beat the odds... its bad form, cheating, and down right sh*tty to just arbitrarily bring in reinforcements or whatever until you get your way.

That was their big issue, the GM using God like powers not to provide a fun game but to force the players along a given path.

One player gave an example that if the players were trying desperately to escape the planet but the GM's plans included them staying a while he could provide obstacles but should never just cause the repulsor drive on their ship to fail at the last minute or something. Instead, plan a shut down of all shipping by the authorities while they undertake a mandatory safety inspection or something.

the difference is subtle but I think I see his point. The shut down should do it but if they manage to slip by, oh well, it happened.

First of all: I truly envy you that you have players that even think about running when things aren't going their way.

Sometimes I feel like most groups have a strong "LEEEEEEEEEEERRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYY JEEEEEEEEEEENNKIIIIIINSSS" mindset, no matter the odds.

I'd say rule-wise the simplest would way would be to take 2 maneuvers to move away and then do a athletics check to determine the gap to their followers. Or, ideally the fastest PC could do the two maneuvers, then say he lays covering fire for the rest of the group with an appropriate ranged check with the goal of handing out boosts or setbacks.

Up to the GM if the stormtroopers give chase the same turn (and spend one maneuver to move, spend action for another maneuver or follow with an athletics check) or try to shoot them in the back.

2P51 and Admiral Tergon

thanks for the good points.

But what would you do if the Runaway Check fails miserably.

It seems odd to me to say "oh you were cought up by thoses Stormis but hey no prob just try again..."

Would you have them to stay in battle for at least X round before they can make a new attemped?

Being captured can be fun. Mechanically you could just rinse and repeat and on the PCs turn to act start the chase music again.

It can be a little frustrating when PCs aren't being terribly imaginative, but they can do things to aid in their getting a head start both narratively and mechanically. If they are imaginative, like they shoot the water tower, or cause a big cloud of smoke, or whatever, definitely given them at least a mechanical head start, if not a little GM fiat/hand wave and let them skeedaddle.

At some point out of game you could always discuss basic tactics about certain situations. There are a number of things that cause Ensnare, which can obviously be helpful in this situation. A little home brew item making is in order I think, smoke grenades, flash grenades, etc, for covering an exit and giving that head start, etc.

It really comes down to reinforcing running away is a good option. I think a lot of folks get into the murder hobo/video game mind set that all targets must be eliminated and this is all that equals victory.

the difference is subtle but I think I see his point. The shut down should do it but if they manage to slip by, oh well, it happened.

I absolutely agree. If the encounter doesn't go the way you planned, you can't be ham-handed about it and force a result.

I'd consider the number of failures on the chase check (assuming that the enemy had "caught" the PC) to be the number of rounds of combat they'd have to survive in order to attempt to flee again.

Of course YMMV.

2P51 and Admiral Tergon

thanks for the good points.

But what would you do if the Runaway Check fails miserably.

It seems odd to me to say "oh you were cought up by thoses Stormis but hey no prob just try again..."

Would you have them to stay in battle for at least X round before they can make a new attemped?

There's no restriction on when to end a chase. It typically ends when the chaser gets a certain distance to the chaseee, but it doesn't have to.

So you can just keep the chase rolling, narrating the action as the players continue to try and run. For reference think about all those cop movies and tv shows where the perp runs and the cop catches up and makes a tackle only to have the perp fall, kick the cop in the face and hop back up and keep running.

So the chase doesn't have to stop and turn into a sticky-cover firefight, just narrate it as a fight on the move.

It worked in Raiders of the Lost Ark...and Temple of Doom... and Last Crusade... and Crystal Skull... I think I just threw up in my mouth a little....

Can i quickly ask that when you say "Chase" are specifically referring to the Chase side bar in the Starships and Vehicles chapter? Using Competitive checks to determine the change in distance between participants each round?

Can i quickly ask that when you say "Chase" are specifically referring to the Chase side bar in the Starships and Vehicles chapter? Using Competitive checks to determine the change in distance between participants each round?

yes! just with athletics since it is on foot.

Awesome. Consider letting PC's use other skills as well, coordination to dodge through a crowd or cross a narrow steam pipe from building to building. streetwise or stealth to blend into a crowd and change direction unnoticed. Knowledge skills to pick short cuts and use the topography. Even social skills to bluff their way into a secure area that seperate a them from the pursuers.

The biggest problem with this, is the constantly reinforced mindset that Stormtroopers are incompetent. It takes a dedicated GM to show the players early, an hammer it home there is a reason the Empire, and it's Navy and it's shock troops have subjugated the galaxy.

Sure the players will shoot up a minion squad of troopers, but make it clear that minion group has comlinks. 2 TIE's call on their ship ship to heave to and be boarded. So when the players jump into the turrets, can they clear the field to make the jump before the Victory class Destroyer at Extreme range can launch supporting flights?

You are not railroading the players when the Heavy stands an fights as more an more arrive, while players whose head does more than keep their helmets from falling upon their shoulders scream" Drake, we are leaving!"

When I GM these situations, I make the weight of numbers argument clearly by the piles of Setback, difficulty, and challenge dice that start appearing from behind the GM screen. Players really get the message when you start flipping Destiny....

I prescribe to the theory that Stormtroopers are the Elites in the Imperial arsenal and the Army field regular troops in the vast majority. The idea seems to be supported by FFG which includes a mention of the difference in their books and stats. I rather like the idea although it does fly right in the face of the apparently incompetent marksman in the movies.

Incompetent marksmen that can still shoot the tracks off a Sand Crawler in a recognisably accurate way...

i think they are what they are, Rival Stormtroopers can hit hard, Minion Stormtroopers are useless.

There are many types of troopers, some of which are incompetent (or nearly so), and some of which might be the most deadly thing on any planet they happen to be on.

It all depends on which ones you happen to run into.

Strangely enough, they all seem to wear the exact same armor under the same circumstances, and be about the same size and shape.

So, what do the players do?

Do you take the risk and stand and fight, or do you do the smart thing and retreat to regroup and come back at this in some other direction?

Myself, I have no problem whatsoever with bringing in more and more groups of enemies.

Or having enemies run away when the PCs are too strong.

And I have no problems with stuff that just happens to break on the ship.

Sometimes it is the dice that tell me that this is what happens, through Threat and/or Despair.

Sometimes it’s me, in my role as the GM trying to figure out what the “bad guys” would naturally have done in such a situation.

Sometimes it’s me trying to keep the story from going too far off-track, or to get it back on-track.

But it does take a certain trust between the players and the GM.

If you’ve always been in “Us versus Them” mode and you cannot break that habit, then you’re going to have a much harder time.

Unless they retain stuff in Rebels that particular Rebel cell is known for not using lethal force unless forced.

Your group doesn't have that reputation so unless you're facing raw recruits who have yet to shake off the fact they're the bad guys and cannon fodder they shouldn't be incompetent unless they're having a really bad day!

If your gm is running them as incompetent please don't suggest they check out Darth & Droids where they provide a reason why they're like that and when they're not!

My impression is that thanks to the destruction of the Death Star the Empire is short on competent personnel and is slowly trying to rebuild their forces using otherwise very low grade personnel to fill the gaps.

Given Tarkin's reputation before he was killed I kind of suspect the majority of the empire's forces wasn't keen on the kind of ruthless bloodshed Tarkin would have endorsed and those that would are strictly in the minority at present as the competent ones would have met the same fate as any would be Sith seeking training from Vader...

Unless you prefer them to be mindless psychopaths I'd be more inclined to make them more cautious and better prepared each time they run into your PC's after all what's scarier the odd guard you decide to snipe at range or the one who waves at you as you realise there's a dozen red laser markers indicating whilst you were focusing on the one you can see their twelve friends were sneaking up on you...?

There are many types of troopers, some of which are incompetent (or nearly so), and some of which might be the most deadly thing on any planet they happen to be on.

It all depends on which ones you happen to run into.

Strangely enough, they all seem to wear the exact same armor under the same circumstances, and be about the same size and shape.

So, what do the players do?

Do you take the risk and stand and fight, or do you do the smart thing and retreat to regroup and come back at this in some other direction?

Unless the character has a special knowledge of Imperial Army or Stormtrooper units that would clue them in on whether they're facing greenies or hardened combat units (Army); or ideological zealots or hardened crack troops (Stormies) -- that would be a good "color knowledge" for certain character backgrounds, especially if the character is keeping his Imperial past a secret from his new Rebel friends. "How the heck did you know those guys were from the 501st?"