My play group is on the verge of embarking on a new campaign. As the overlord I mostly got steamrolled during the LoR-campaign (using the basic OL deck).

I´m considering switching to Basic II for our next run. However, the lack of Dash/Frenzy sort of puts me of.

What are your opinions on the strength/weaknesses of the Basic II deck vs. Basic? Will the Basic II deck penalize groups that has two or more of the same archtype? (Because of the class-effect on the cards.)

I´ve yet to find a comprehensive discussion about this, hence this post.

Basic 2 has a couple things going for it that a lot of people overlook. The big thing you have to remember is that the extra text that shows up at the bottom that's archetype specific is in addition to the other effects of the card.

When the card is played on a hero that matches the listed archetype, the listed effect for the matching archetype is applied in addition to the card’s normal effect

You don't have Dash, but you have Blinding Speed which can be better. If you use it on a Warrior and they fail both tests, the monster gets 6 movement points, whereas they only get 2 if any hero fails 1, or if the Warrior fails only 1. The other important thing to realize regarding Blinding Speed is that this gives movement points, not a move action, so this gets around Immobilize.

Frenzy doesn't have a direct counterpart, instead it has 1-2 pseudo counterparts and only 1 really being on par or better than Frenzy: Flurry. You need a surge to make it work, but the additional attack gains a Green Die which can give a nice damage boost. It's situational though, if you roll excess surges on the first attack to which you could use all the surge abilities you wanted and still make use of Flurry, then Flurry is better because the second attack will carry the extra green die. On the other hand if you had to use the only surge you had for the extra attack instead of that nice +3 damage ability and then your flurry attack rolls crap, then it's worst.

The other card that is sorta like Frenzy is Overwhelm, but it's tricky to pull off and if you work too hard to make it happen, then it might not be worth it. Either you get an extra attack, or the target is stunned/immobilized. Again, it's situational.

Befuddle is amazing during quests that have attribute tests or if you really want Blinding Speed or whatever else to go through.

Mimic is great, sometimes pulling a search token away from the heroes can really mess with their heads. If they have to split up to chase it down and you can capitalize on it, bonus points.

Reflective ward is the pseudo Dark Charm, except it's only for damage. I have weird results whenever I've used it, I always catch a hero with 0-1 fatigue, but they tend to miss or roll poorly on the attack.

Mental Error and Dirty Fighting are good, used on the right archetype and they give a nice boost.

Grease Trap if used right is amazing, splitting up the heroes at the right time (or just costing them an action) is always good.

To Sum up, Basic 2 can be better, but it can also be worst. Its power can be situational and you have things to help tip the scales in your favor. If you want to have reliable power, then go with Basic 1. Also keep in mind though that if the Heroes pick a Warrior with high Awareness/Knowledge, then Blinding speed/Mental Error won't be that good. If the Mage has high Willpower/Awareness, then Uncontrolled Power/Grease Trap won't be as good. I'd stay away from Basic 2 if the heroes have attribute tests that directly counter some of the cards.

One of the key points about Basic 2 is that it really, really depends on your party. It can be absolutely devastating to some parties, hitting them right where it hurts. You have a runemaster with mana weave who is consistently tearing you apart with surges? "Uncontrolled Power" turns those surges against him. The healer has some extra armor? You can add a surge and pierce 1 to your attack at the same time. As jadedbacon said, though, a high knowledge warrior or a high willpower mage is really going to mess with the effectiveness of the deck (whereas such a change would have no impact on Basic 1). It's important to remember (and take advantage of) the fact that you can choose your deck AFTER the hero players pick their heroes and classes. If they pick Alys Raine or Astarra (let alone both), you might want to take another look at Basic 1.

If the heroes have Lindel....

If the heroes have Lindel....

Not sure what that means.

But I thank you for the replies. I guess the thing that sticks is the point about evaluating the new hero team before selecting my deck. (All of us have finished a second campaign (SR + LoR),( and as an OL I was steam rolled. Except for the first quest and the two rumour quests)).

Still considering Basic II....

If the heroes have Lindel....

Not sure what that means.

But I thank you for the replies. I guess the thing that sticks is the point about evaluating the new hero team before selecting my deck. (All of us have finished a second campaign (SR + LoR),( and as an OL I was steam rolled. Except for the first quest and the two rumour quests)).

Still considering Basic II....

Many of the Basic 2 cards hinge on attribute tests. Lindel (effectively) has a 4 in every attribute, giving him about a 75% chance of passing anything.

Basic 2 isn't always as powerful as Basic 1; I've regretted picking it for power reasons, but I have never regretted picking it from a standpoint of fun- the deck really makes OL card playing more interesting (for me).

If the heroes have Lindel....

Not sure what that means.

But I thank you for the replies. I guess the thing that sticks is the point about evaluating the new hero team before selecting my deck. (All of us have finished a second campaign (SR + LoR),( and as an OL I was steam rolled. Except for the first quest and the two rumour quests)).

Still considering Basic II....

Many of the Basic 2 cards hinge on attribute tests. Lindel (effectively) has a 4 in every attribute, giving him about a 75% chance of passing anything.

Basic 2 isn't always as powerful as Basic 1; I've regretted picking it for power reasons, but I have never regretted picking it from a standpoint of fun- the deck really makes OL card playing more interesting (for me).

This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. I've played against parties where Basic II felt as strong as Basic I and in quite a few circumstances and quests it feels superior. More often than not I think Basic I is the more powerfull deck though, but I always felt that Basic II is more fun and more exciting to play (because of the added tension of the attribute tests and the more tricky card-effects).

The lack of consistent flat out powerfull cards like Haste, Frenzy and Tripwire is the biggest detriment to the power of the Basic II deck and their more tricky equivalents are most of the time only with some luck as good as their Basic I counterparts, but always more fun to pull off.

If you have generally a hard time utilizing your OL cards, I think Basic I is the better choice.

I agree that Basic I is a more straightforward, reliable and consistent, but more boring deck than Basic II.

But Basic II can really shine when it's played against the right heroes (so requires some thought in advance), but also depends on a bit of luck as well.

In our upcoming Mists of Bilehall campaign, I'll be facing Sir Valadir who, with his knowledge of 3, isn't the best target for Blinding Speed, as well as Zyla, who I could grease trap and stun into Hazard/Sludge terrain, but she has 3 Awareness and ignores terrain anyway (**** that sh*t in the bilehall campaign, which is all about terrain). I know I could play these on other heroes, but that would be to sub-optimal effect.

So even though it is going to be boring (and too bad I can't use the grease trap), I'm afraid I'll have to go with Basic I on this one.

Many of the Basic 2 cards hinge on attribute tests. Lindel (effectively) has a 4 in every attribute, giving him about a 75% chance of passing anything.

I see.

Off topic: Where to get a good Descent 2 dice probability calculator anyways?

On topic: I've decided to try out Basic II. Attribute tests = mind games, which is reason good enought!

I always champion Basic II, but I think it's a matter of taste. I am using Basic currently in a campaign and I can't say that I don't like it, but I do miss my Befuddles and Mimic cards.

Basic II is more impredictible than Basic I, which also has an impact on psychologic warfare. Just that fact alone makes me chuckle.

But generally speaking Basic II has more variance in power than Basic has, mainly because everything comes down to attribute tests. Basic is safer and more stable in general.

This is why Basic II feels like it requires slightly more management and expertise from the Overlord to run to best effect compared to its predecessor.

I personally find cool that you are never garantee success when playing an ability. It find it fun, as opposed to unconditional card denial from the heroes' side.

Basic III will be far superior to both. Monster-trait based effects are uncounterable by the heroes, and taking the best out of Basic and Basic II mixed into Basic III makes it the next generation OL deck.

Basic III will be far superior to both. Monster-trait based effects are uncounterable by the heroes, and taking the best out of Basic and Basic II mixed into Basic III makes it the next generation OL deck.

Interesting read. But....

Basic III? It this something upcoming, or a rib?

Basic III will be far superior to both. Monster-trait based effects are uncounterable by the heroes, and taking the best out of Basic and Basic II mixed into Basic III makes it the next generation OL deck.

Interesting read. But....

Basic III? It this something upcoming, or a rib?

FFG could kinda make a rule or something so you could mix the two decks. (So you could choose Basic I or II or the Basic III which is a fix set of cards from I and II)

Or make at least some of the Cards purchasable.... (like a new OL Class which has for Basic I some cards from Basic II and vice versa... they could just say the EXP cost of these in the forum or something)

If I could buy cards like Grease Trap and Mimic for XP I totally would Great way to improve my Basic I deck with the best that Basic II has to offer.

I'd love to see more choices for the OL, as far as the basic decks go.

My playgroup just selected heroes for the SoN-campaign we are starting on friday. Two scouts with mediocre attributes. They go all in for mobility. Basic II feels like a good choice now.

I would like to see Basic-decks that in principle can be a "counter" to DPS, Mobility, Treasure (good gear) groups....