Hi all,

So I am toying with the idea of the fleet below, which is a variant of a previous tournament list. My think is that I would rather have lots of capital ships for a) hull, b) extra firepower with Vader, and c) activations. Basically the aim is to make a dual ISD list which addresses some of the limitations. Here goes:

Vader's Space Raiders 399/400

ISD-1, Vader, Relentless

ISD-1, Avenger

GSD-1, Insidious

Raider-1

4 X TIE fighter

Most Wanted

Hyperspace Assault

Intel Sweep

Ok, so I stretched the truth about no upgrades - there are titles here. But it feels like titles add the most value here when points are tight. Vader can cruise onboard the Relentless for flexibility, and his ability to add rerolls will up damage potential across the fleet. Avenger can be the follow up to one of the other ships, putting out a respectable amount of damage with Vader and the ability to ignore exhausted defence tokens. The GSD is there to act as he finisher after the ISDs, picking off wounded targets that try to outflank. While the Raider and 4 X TIEs address enemy fighters.

I like aspects of the fleet (total 31 hull, 40 shields on the table, lots of firepower and activations) I am unhappy with:

- would prefer Demolisher over Insidious

- would like ordnance experts and a title on the Raider

- turbolaser upgrades on the ISDs

- more fighter cover

What do you guys think? I am not worried about the lack of bid (this fleet loves to go first and has some horrendous objectives for my opponent). What would you change?

You could drop one ISD and have VSD I with Corrupter and 4 bombers for 400pts if you keep Avenger title.

That gives you 8 deployments and little bit more flexability

Maybe have Contested Outpost and Minefields to herd opponents ships towards your guns

I can see how Vader offsets lack of upgrades to help get the most from your ships

Otherwise I can only advise playing to see if lack of upgrades works for you

The only way you'll get Demolisher over Insidious, without compromising on your other points, is...

... Screed instead.

Which with your one point left over, gives you a 5th TIE Fighter.

... but that's it. And you're now at 400...

I am with Jimble here. Flagship VSD to womble along at the back with Vader. Though I'd prefer lots of black dice TA's to burn tokens. (Or Howlrunner intercepters to decimate the opponent)

No Dras, do not doubt the Vader in this list!

-You dont need OE on the Raider, thats the whole point of Vader.

No Dras, do not doubt the Vader in this list!

Oh, I completely agree...

But I do feel the only way to get Demolisher instead of Insidious, without compromising the other points (Mainly, More Fighter Cover)... Is to go to Screed...

Because yes, you could do it if you dropped a TIE fighter.

Dropping a second TIE fighter would also net you a single Turbolaser Upgrade...

... But now you're only at 2 TIE fighters, and you're missing out on that desire of "More"

Thanks guys. It's a tough one - a VSD (which I had in the old list) worked just great with Vader, the main problem is that as a battleship its complete lack of speed and yaw are a real disadvantage. It worked better as a piñata to fly alongside a pair of GSDs which did the heavy lifting in killing enemy ships.

Do you think I should drop the Raider for more fighters, or trade the GSD down to a Raider? That might free up enough points for some more upgrades.

Without Vader this list would really stink, he is what gives the reliable damage output in exchange for defence tokens. Ordnance experts on Raider-1s are great flak platforms though, and could still act as a sweeper behind the big guns.

You gave us four desires here:

- would prefer Demolisher over Insidious
- would like ordnance experts and a title on the Raider
- turbolaser upgrades on the ISDs
- more fighter cover

Prioritise Them for us, and we'll make it happen.

Dropping to a VSD it to use it as a carrier for bombers, so would be slow rolling any way

If your opponent choses Hyperspace Assault from your objectives, surprise them and use the VSD and 3 Bombers instead of the usual Gladiator tactic.

If you want to run twin ISDs, drop the raider and use points on fighters/upgrades

Dropping to a VSD it to use it as a carrier for bombers, so would be slow rolling any way

If your opponent choses Hyperspace Assault from your objectives, surprise them and use the VSD and 3 Bombers instead of the usual Gladiator tactic.

If you want to run twin ISDs, drop the raider and use points on fighters/upgrades

The more I think about it, I really like this idea. The bombers let the VSD 'reach out' and hit the enemy that try to flank the big guys. And putting this thing in Hyperspace Assault would be pretty nasty, with both bombers and Vader-enhanced firepower.

Given my aim with this list though is to use two ISDs, the Raider probably becomes the disposable element. It makes me sad to lose the fourth activation, but that is probably the easiest trade-off. In which case, the question becomes:

- What do I spend the 44 (raider) + 32 (TIEs) = 76 pts on to get the best bang for my buck?

I like the ISD-1s and Vader, so will probably keep those.

How to juice up the GSD?

Can we build an effective fighter bomber force with the remaining points? (I have 2 Imperial fighter packs and 2 rogues and villains)

Your advice is appreciated!

Rhymer with 5 Tie Advanceds is 76pts. (replace TA with Jumpmaster for flavour)

They can be activated by the ISD to either shield, or pepper defence tokens before Avenger.