Wolfpack fans and fat PWT critics beware, this is about loaded JM5Ks!

*builds at the bottom*

I've been experimenting with Dengar and Tel builds and I wanted to see if anyone had their own experiences to discuss. I've had multiple games with Dengar and a few with Tel and overall I'm leaning towards Tel as the better choice. He's cheaper, much more durable, and doesn't give up too much in offense compared to Dengar.

What Dengar has to his advantage is his pilot skill (especially with Engine Upgrade) and excellent offense. The biggest problem I've had with Dengar so far is getting his ability to work. Don't get me wrong, it's not hard to just joust in with a big ship and exchanged a couple rounds. The problem is picking the right time to do it, particularly at a time when it's only a single ship you're jousting and not a situation where you'll lose half your health in a turn. And that's the problem of Dengar. He is a fragile arc dodger with only two dice (but good enough to be one!) but his ability requires jousting. That's a confusing spot to put half your squad points! I mean arc dodging is hard enough with a lopsided dial, but now you have to line up arc-to-arc.

Tel on the other hand only needs to focus on staying alive, and he has extra health and regeneration to help him. He loses some offense by not having K4, but predator does the job good enough. And at only 51 points you aren't stuck in that awkward ~40 point spot that scum has trouble filling at the moment.

I don't think Dengar is bad, but he's in a confusing spot that has a high learning curve to really get right. He has more damage potential than Han, and in the right hands his 3 dice are better than Dash's. Tel is more of the traditional fat PWT, and is in a great position to really use Gonk regeneration effectively. You can potentially resurrect yourself and then get all your shields back!

So now that we have the ships and have had 2 weeks to test them out, what are your thoughts on the new scum PWT?

Builds:

-(56) Dengar, Push the Limit, Engine Upgrade, K4 Security Droid, Punishing One, Unhinged Astromech

-(51) Tel Trevura, Predator(or Push the Limit), Experimental Interface (or Hull Upgrade), Gonk, Punishing One, Unhinged Astromech

not as good as the torp boat is the prevailing reaction over here

Dengar's fun, at least, since you can never tell where he's going to end up. Problem is he's not entirely brainless, because his price and capabilities are engineered with his bonkers ability in mind

I flew against Dengar at a tournament recently. His ability was annoying, but I killed his escorts first and focused him down after that.

Then again, I was flying Chewie w/3PO, so I really didn't give a crap if he got shot twice.

Tel Trevvura

-Deturmination

-Greedo

-Pnishing One

-Hull upgrade

Astromech and illicit of choice. Salvaged Asromech is basically a 2 point shield upgrade.

My impression of Dengar has been very negative so far.

His ability encourages you to get into the thick of it and slug it out with opponents, but he's a 50-point with only 9 HP so he's rather terrible in a slugging match. And if you ignore his ability, then he's just another turret that wants to kite around the fighting. Every time, I can't help but think "Why am I flying this loser instead of a Ghost, a Falcon, a VT-49, or Dash?"

Don't get me wrong, I like his ability and the direction FFG tried to push him (ie. a turret that makes use of the arc), and I do wish they'd done something similar with the other turreted ships. But they didn't, so now Dengar just looks terrible by comparison.

My impression of Dengar has been very negative so far.

His ability encourages you to get into the thick of it and slug it out with opponents, but he's a 50-point with only 9 HP so he's rather terrible in a slugging match. And if you ignore his ability, then he's just another turret that wants to kite around the fighting. Every time, I can't help but think "Why am I flying this loser instead of a Ghost, a Falcon, a VT-49, or Dash?"

Don't get me wrong, I like his ability and the direction FFG tried to push him (ie. a turret that makes use of the arc), and I do wish they'd done something similar with the other turreted ships. But they didn't, so now Dengar just looks terrible by comparison.

I think people have the wrong idea with dengar, trying to leverage the ability as often as possible. I find it better to use it as a form of deterrent. Use it to make people take bad shots, or even not take the shot at all due to not wanting to take more damage, if you can get it to where he's only in arc of one ship, you'll find people not taking the shot surprisingly often.

I ran him in this list twice:

Dengar: title, adaptability +1, R4 Agromech, Rec Spec

Black Sun Soldier: Proton Rockets, Guidance Chips

BSS: Concussion Missiles, Guidance Chips

BSS: Concussion Missiles, Guidance Chips

The keeps Dengar down to 50 points while still being pretty effective. The escort tries to loose their ordinance while Dengar flanks. If you go after Dengar I'll pull him toward the Headhunters so they can get their ordinance off. Either way, after the missiles are gone the Z95s try and get in the way of my opponent's ships and limit their maneuver options while Dengar cleans up.

I have only played it twice but it works really well. Dengar can get a little pricey to quickly. The arc dodging build all but requires the title, engine and PtL at 52 points but you don't necessarily have a ton of offense and if you are stressed you are very predictable. Unhinged helps a little but you still need something to help modify your offensive dice while you try to boost+barrel roll out of arcs. It is awfully easy to get to 54+ points which is Dash territory but without the HLC.

Tel with Hull, Gonk, FBA, and the painbot. Almost never dies. If left at the end of a match with Soontir or any of the other Imperial A-Holes, they lose. I LOVE this build.

Dengar does not need to joust to leverage his ability. He does just fine chasing turrets too. Wanna fire that TLT at me? Sure, you can do at most 2 damage, I can do 6 (maybe more depending on crits).

In the hangar bay, I used Guri/Dengar. Got paired against a corran chopper. The game came down to corran and dengar (shooting at 0). He shot, I shot, R5, I shot, he shot. If he had rolled a hit on his major explosion I would of won. Was a very interesting game.

Dengar, certainly in the "Super" build from OP isnt a jouster at all. At least until he can go one on one. My opinion is anyone flying him that way is setting themsef up to fail. Don't fly into the teeth. He is basically the photo-negative of Superdash. Arc dodging but into range 1. His ability creates a huge no fly zone and I leverage it more to reduce Incoming damage than I do to increase outgoing damage.

Engineer a one on one with Poe, go face to face at range one and watch your opponents take a 4die TL shot (possibly focused too if you didn't need to reposition) and then be too hurt to risk even taking their own 4die shot. With PTL and K4, you will still have 1 reposition action available. You either dodge the return shot or have the option of just making that return shot very unappealing.

I've been flying him with loaded Guri (LW, AT, SJ, Stims) and so far, people going after her instead first have struggled to take her out quickly while basically conceding table position to me trying to do so.

I'm going to second (third?) what's already been said - the PtL/EU/UA/K4 Dengar build doesn't want to joust. It's an arc-dodging PWT that want to be (and has the mobility to be) at Range 1. I've had good results flying it like that, and using his pilot ability as a deterrent to return fire when I can easily use it. Certainly it's not something I've tried to bring to bear every turn, as not getting shot at all is usually notably better than taking a return shot.

That said, I'm eager to try Tel at some point. It seems you could go for a notably cheaper build than Dengar while being annoyingly durable.

My dengar solo'd a fat Han the other day. Gave han initiative and got in behind him. The difference in health was more than made up for by shooting twice. That was the game that sold me on his ability.

Builds:

-(56) Dengar, Push the Limit, Engine Upgrade, K4 Security Droid, Punishing One, Unhinged Astromech

-(51) Tel Trevura, Predator(or Push the Limit), Experimental Interface (or Hull Upgrade), Gonk, Punishing One, Unhinged Astromech

If nothing else, I think your build is illegal as the Punishing One title appears to be unique.

Has anyone tried R5-P8 (the shoot back droid) instead of Unhinged on Dengar?

Builds:

-(56) Dengar, Push the Limit, Engine Upgrade, K4 Security Droid, Punishing One, Unhinged Astromech

-(51) Tel Trevura, Predator(or Push the Limit), Experimental Interface (or Hull Upgrade), Gonk, Punishing One, Unhinged Astromech

If nothing else, I think your build is illegal as the Punishing One title appears to be unique.

It says 'builds', not 'build'.

And would add to 107 points.

Almost like the two ships aren't meant to be flown together.

Back on topic... Dengar is awesome. I flew against him, and actually had Vessery not shoot for a turn, because he'd managed to catch me off guard (curse that dash-like boost+barrel roll getting into firing range on turn 1!), and I wasn't in a position to return fire with more than one ship. After burning Vessery's tokens to avoid any damage at PS9... it didn't seem worth taking an unmodified shot just to risk being shot again by a glitterstim'd doom-saucer.

And that, my friends, is the real power of Dengar. Don't joust with him - but if you can arc-dodge, especially against other turret ships, he's going to be laughing.

First off, isn't Tel a female?

I think it's funny that people talk about a Gonk build with Tel and how you can peel away and regen, but never put Gonk on Dengar? He can't do that, as well? I mean, you don't get that revive bit when you get close to dying, but it's not like Dengar is a bad person to use that strategy with.

I think most people who posted are right. Don't joust with Dengar. Arc dodge with him. If he gets to use his ability, then you are doing great.

it's mostly just that gonk isn't very good

With dengars price, gonk takes too long to regen with gonk. If you have to bail early the rest of your list will die and you'll have a hard time to get in position for the rengage

I became a Dengar fan after doing 8 damage to a Decimator in one round with him.

I shoot deci for 3 damage (recon specialist focus + Predator for re-rolls)

Deci shoots me and deals 1 damage

R5-P8 triggers and he takes 1 more damage

I shoot him again for 2 hits and a critical hit which turns out to be a direct hit

Trying out Manaroo with unhinged astrometry. Boba fett and punishing one title along with ptl. The plan is people start to tl her then pass them onto a ship flying around the board with a turret that can then join in from afar. Dengar is great but against large turreted ships takes a pounding and gonk means it's hard to regen with only an action a round.Even with experimental interface it can still be a struggle getting enough shields back to not get turned to dust.

Dengar, certainly in the "Super" build from OP isnt a jouster at all. At least until he can go one on one. My opinion is anyone flying him that way is setting themsef up to fail. Don't fly into the teeth. He is basically the photo-negative of Superdash. Arc dodging but into range 1. His ability creates a huge no fly zone and I leverage it more to reduce Incoming damage than I do to increase outgoing damage.

Engineer a one on one with Poe, go face to face at range one and watch your opponents take a 4die TL shot (possibly focused too if you didn't need to reposition) and then be too hurt to risk even taking their own 4die shot. With PTL and K4, you will still have 1 reposition action available. You either dodge the return shot or have the option of just making that return shot very unappealing.

I've been flying him with loaded Guri (LW, AT, SJ, Stims) and so far, people going after her instead first have struggled to take her out quickly while basically conceding table position to me trying to do so.

This is pretty similar to how I fly my "skinny" Dengar. I keep him on the fringe of the fight, using barrel roll to dodge arcs when possible, and let the escort do their damage. If I can get it down to 1v1 with a healthy Dengar I am confident I can win because of his double tap.

I want to try your Dengar-Guri build, I love flying her and I haven't tried a fat Dengar yet.

I see a lot of Dengar players that read his ability and view him as a jouster.

It's a trap!

His ability means you should joust aces and turrets only, but you still need to avoid the hell out of actual jousters.

Dengar's just so **** expensive once fully kitted out and it's not like he can take a beating either.

I am increasingly tempted to put a Torpedo Dengar and Fat Trevura in the same list. Scuttle around your edge amassing Gonk tokens and hurl both ships in for a strike, potentially wiping out even a 10+ HP ship with Dengars second barrage.

With Glitterstim, PS9, and Large Ship BRoll Dengar can probably even get some mileage after his torpedoes pop. Using VI to make both Jumpmasters PS9 also potentially lets you pull some Activation phase shenanigans to avoid blocks and keep Dengar at R1 of enemies.

Probably not Regionals competitive, but with an amazing dial and a plethora of crazy abilities I could definitely see some mileage at a Store tournament, and with all the hate for U Boats (and as someone who actually likes Jumpmasters) I hope to give it a shot soon.