Hi everyone,

Had an encounter where two PCs went down - the Jedi due to exceeding the Strain Threshold, and the Smuggler through exceeding the Would Threshold. The Jedi who was zealous with Parrying melee attacks and was then hit by a few Stun blasts/Force Pike set to Stun. The Smuggler was hit by several blaster bolts.

It seemed odd that the Medic was able to bring the Smuggler around with a Stimpack (the use of which brought him back below the Wound Threshold and thus back to consciousness), whereas there was nothing that could be done for the Jedi save for a Medicine check that would have required 6 Advantages to bring him back below the Strain Threshold. Given they were in the midst of a firefight and attempting to flee the scene there wasn't much enthusiasm for taking that chance.

Now, I since read that a character that has exceeded his Strain Threshold is not necessarily unconscious - in hindsight I would have been happy for the Jedi to have been slapped awake and herded, staggering, to the getaway vehicle rather than requiring a fireman's carry. After the battle, the Jedi rolled his Discipline for Strain recovery but did not get many successes. So the problem persisted afterwards where it looked like nothing short of a night's rest would rouse the character back to functionality. It seemed to be a worse position to be in than with lethal damage exceeding the Wound Threshold (criticals aside) in that a Stimpack was all that was needed to bring the character back to consciousness despite both characters were around 5 points over their respective Thresholds (the Medic has Stim specialist).

I am loathe to introduce a Strain-recovering version of the Stimpack (Adrenals?) as they would break the game. It'd be Parries and Reflects for days... but on the flip side, I feel like a character should be roused from unconsciousness due to Strain damage a bit more easily than is possible with Wounds. Furthermore, just how much more unconscious is a character who is zapped by 10 Stun blaster shots than they are by one? There seems to be no maximum value for Strain damage like there is for Wounds (twice the Wound Threshold).

I was contemplating a maximum Strain damage amount as equal to Strain Threshold +1. Therefore, after a battle a Cool/Discipline check would only require a single Success for them to recover. Similarly, a Medicine check would only need one Advantage. Or two given that it should be below the threshold, but I like the consistency of "at Threshold = ok" for both Wounds and Strain.

Has anyone got any of their own suggestions, or critiques of mine to solve this problem? I would very much like to hear them!

You don't track once you hit the threshold for Strain. You just go unconscious/incapacitated. So there's no 6 Adavantages needed.

As a houserule I allow a Stimpack to "wake" someone. Like smelling salts. It won't heal Strain, too much abuse/OP potential, and it also counts as one of the uses.

Then there’s the Verpine Headband, introduced in “Strongholds of Resistance”, on page 15.

However, I personally consider that to be more of an instrument of torture than anything else.

I ruled it so that a strain faded out char can be woke up but just slapping his face or throwing water in his face or how ever you would wake someone in real life that has fainted. The Strain would be set to the maximum in that case so one more strain and he´ll faint again.

Set fire to his robes; he'll wake up.

Set fire to his robes; he'll wake up.

oh yeah that could help , fire baby!

"I am loathe to introduce a Strain-recovering version of the Stimpack (Adrenals?) as they would break the game."

I am new to the system to take this for what it worth but I don't see why something like that should break the game. (The GM can always limit its availability if nothing else.)

At first reading I found it odd that there was a "healing potion" for Wounds but not one for Strain. When you think about it a Stimpak by definition sounds like a stimulant, not a miracle healing agent. Sure it has bacta in it but its logical that it would perk up the person as well, nullifying the vary things Strain is suffered for. (Stress, exhaustion, minor cuts and bruises etc.)

Its a bit early in the game for me start house ruling yet but I did make notes during my reading and this is definitely one area I intend to address. There is an excellent thread about this Stimpak business you might check out. It gave me some pretty good ideas of how to provide relief for combat strain but not have it get out of hand. (Think downside to taking it)

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/202521-wounds-strain-and-stimpaks-slight-adjustment/?hl=stimpak

It breaks the game because Strain is balanced to be a finite resource that buffs combat potential and to allow a 'health pot' that can restore it with a maneuver turns combat balance on its head.

In higher XP games, you'll find your PCs can do some really powerful things at the cost of strain. Without strain being such a mitigating factor, the potential of your PCs could quickly become out-of-hand. If you don't think this will be a problem at your table, then feel free to introduce a strain-recovery consumable.

Well I did say I was new to the system after all, I am sure your points are valid. It just feels a little off when you can inject a person with something that removes the symptoms of a blaster shot (pain, bleeding, loss of function, potential infection or whatever) but there is no similar cure for a long run, or a sleepless night. I would argue we have drugs that would counter Strain loss, as described in the rules, now!

I get that the designers have built a sort of self limiting mechanic around the voluntary use of Strain for special purposes but it just seems out of place with something that is also affected by the very mundane (crawling up a rope, feeling worried about one's debts being called in, getting cold etc.)

I will admit I have worried how I was going to explain this perceived 'collapse' when the Strain Threshold is reached by such trivial causes. I understand the game mechanic but as is often stressed in many of the threads here, this is a narrative game. I have to make it sound as if it makes sense realistically, not just by rule mechanic.

So, Ill just ask.. if the OP doesn't mind my jumping in on his thread.

How do you narrate a PC collapse at Strain Threshold from trivial uses? ie. A couple for Obligation worries, a few for extra maneuvers, a couple for a hot, dry environment and then loss of a couple due to threat on shooting attempts for example.

Exhaustion.

Because the system has many ways of regaining strain too. After "encounters" everyone rolls to recover. A nights sleep gets it all back. Advantages can bring back strain.

The game has options to replenish the stain threshold value. Be very careful about adding more.

As to what it looks like when the strain threshold is exceeded, what it looks like depends on what caused it to happen. Exhausted collapse. Overwhelmed in terror. Gobsmacked speechless. Incapacitated with stun gas. Retching on the floor from poisoned food. Emotionally Numb and in a fugue state from the immensity of it all.

Exhaustion.

Laugh, makes the big heroes seem kind of wussified! "Ive been so worried about my debts and then there was that nasty hike through the jungle and now, I cant seem to even hit anything with this blaster! Oh, I feel feint!" LOL

No offense meant, it just hit me as funny.

Because the system has many ways of regaining strain too. After "encounters" everyone rolls to recover. A nights sleep gets it all back. Advantages can bring back strain.

The game has options to replenish the stain threshold value. Be very careful about adding more.

As to what it looks like when the strain threshold is exceeded, what it looks like depends on what caused it to happen. Exhausted collapse. Overwhelmed in terror. Gobsmacked speechless. Incapacitated with stun gas. Retching on the floor from poisoned food. Emotionally Numb and in a fugue state from the immensity of it all.

Yes, your right... its not necessarily a collapse, just a state of ineffectiveness I guess. I need to remember that.

It's also an economy - players need to balance spending Advantages for cool effects - criticals, bonuses, etc... - with keeping their Strain where it's supposed to be.

Interesting question. I've not rendered of may PCs unconscious via strain from threat. I'm not as cruel as some GMs. If I see the character is low on strain, I'll spend that threat to move some NPCs around, or to pass some setback dice, or boost die to the opposition.

I use their Threat from things that would make sense for them to incur Strain, but flat unconscious maybe not so much. I can definitely see incapacitating them, real easy to throw out your back very badly running, jumping, crouching, rolling around, etc and just not be able to move. Been there done that, I wasn't unconscious but I was most certainly combat ineffective.

Well I did say I was new to the system after all, I am sure your points are valid. It just feels a little off when you can inject a person with something that removes the symptoms of a blaster shot (pain, bleeding, loss of function, potential infection or whatever) but there is no similar cure for a long run, or a sleepless night. I would argue we have drugs that would counter Strain loss, as described in the rules, now!

The bleeding and loss of function are represented by Critical Injuries. I basically consider stimpacks to be a mix of really good stimulants and painkillers. It doesn't cure jack squat, but it lets you keep fighting despite the pain of your broken nose, that blaster burn that your armor deflected, and the ankle you twisted fighting that nexu. And yes, I agree that having three different health tracks might be a bit much, just try not to overthink it. When I've considered building a conversion for other genres, I've considered rolling Strain and Wounds into a single pool called Morale. Then I imagine building talent trees from scratch and just shelve the idea entirely, so I'm not sure how that would work out.

So that's why the Doc calls it a 'strain'.

Oh dear, I just typed that out loud.

Its a sound mechanic, it just feels a bit awkward in the mix sometimes, or so I would imagine. A stun weapon has a better chance to render you incapacitated if you've been worried a lot, just proved yourself inept at firing a weapon recently, or maybe saw something scary.

Im just jerking around now though, I get it. I myself probably wouldn't implement the 'collapse' rule or whatever unless there was sufficient cause to render the character affected 'right then', not as a result of an accumulation of lesser stressors. It would just look weird otherwise.

I cant imagine a hero falling to pieces because he missed badly.

Well I did say I was new to the system after all, I am sure your points are valid. It just feels a little off when you can inject a person with something that removes the symptoms of a blaster shot (pain, bleeding, loss of function, potential infection or whatever) but there is no similar cure for a long run, or a sleepless night. I would argue we have drugs that would counter Strain loss, as described in the rules, now!

The bleeding and loss of function are represented by Critical Injuries. I basically consider stimpacks to be a mix of really good stimulants and painkillers. It doesn't cure jack squat, but it lets you keep fighting despite the pain of your broken nose, that blaster burn that your armor deflected, and the ankle you twisted fighting that nexu. And yes, I agree that having three different health tracks might be a bit much, just try not to overthink it. When I've considered building a conversion for other genres, I've considered rolling Strain and Wounds into a single pool called Morale. Then I imagine building talent trees from scratch and just shelve the idea entirely, so I'm not sure how that would work out.

Good point on Critical Injuries, I failed to take that into consideration.

Wounds are obviously intended to be either far less serious injuries (bumps and scrapes) or more intangible effects (exhaustion, pain etc.)

Oddly the section under Stimpaks is rather specific. "...and other medications designed for quick healing in the field." (emphasis mine)

I would think that if they were as you say (and logically so I will add), designed to suppress symptoms only instead of actually healing anything, the effect would be temporary or extremely minimal and the actual reduction of Wound Threshold left to well...time and medical attention.

I get the blend of physical and emotional trauma represented by Strain though and am fine with how it is portrayed. I still think it odd there is no pharmaceutical agent to restore it. It seems a mix of Prozac, Hydrocodone, some B-12 and other vitamins, some sugar, a little caffeine etc. would work just fine!

Exhaustion.

Laugh, makes the big heroes seem kind of wussified! "Ive been so worried about my debts and then there was that nasty hike through the jungle and now, I cant seem to even hit anything with this blaster! Oh, I feel feint!" LOL

No offense meant, it just hit me as funny.

No offense taken. But, it's how you describe it. Your original example wasn't just about a nature hike and worried about debts..

So the hero begins battle stressed out already over the debt his family owes to the Hutt. Then, a firefight ensues in the hot, dry desert outside the Hutt's fortress. He's showing some signs of dehydration before the fight even begins. During the fight, he's forced to give 110%, sprinting about (extra maneuvers) while under the extreme stress of combat. Yes all of that together could lead to exhaustion.

If you've been in a life or death struggle, it's surprisingly fatiguing. Even a minute of fighting in a very fearful, stressful, situation can exhaust a reasonably fit person. It's more about mental exhaustion then physical muscle failure.

I can recall being in a ground fight at work once just a few years ago while being in reasonable shape. It was one on one and I admit I got surprised and overwhelmed at first. Fear led to extreme all out exertion which allowed me to come out on top. It was over in probably 45 seconds. Afterwards I was exhausted. I recovered pretty quickly so it wasn't much about physical muscle fatigue.

Google "post adrenaline rush fatigue" for a scientific explanation for strain making your buff heroes collapse.

Exhaustion.

Laugh, makes the big heroes seem kind of wussified! "Ive been so worried about my debts and then there was that nasty hike through the jungle and now, I cant seem to even hit anything with this blaster! Oh, I feel feint!" LOL

No offense meant, it just hit me as funny.

No offense taken. But, it's how you describe it. Your original example wasn't just about a nature hike and worried about debts..

How do you narrate a PC collapse at Strain Threshold from trivial uses? ie. A couple for Obligation worries, a few for extra maneuvers, a couple for a hot, dry environment and then loss of a couple due to threat on shooting attempts for example.

So the hero begins battle stressed out already over the debt his family owes to the Hutt. Then, a firefight ensues in the hot, dry desert outside the Hutt's fortress. He's showing some signs of dehydration before the fight even begins. During the fight, he's forced to give 110%, sprinting about (extra maneuvers) while under the extreme stress of combat. Yes all of that together could lead to exhaustion.

If you've been in a life or death struggle, it's surprisingly fatiguing. Even a minute of fighting in a very fearful, stressful, situation can exhaust a reasonably fit person. It's more about mental exhaustion then physical muscle failure.

I can recall being in a ground fight at work once just a few years ago while being in reasonable shape. It was one on one and I admit I got surprised and overwhelmed at first. Fear led to extreme all out exertion which allowed me to come out on top. It was over in probably 45 seconds. Afterwards I was exhausted. I recovered pretty quickly so it wasn't much about physical muscle fatigue.

Google "post adrenaline rush fatigue" for a scientific explanation for strain making your buff heroes collapse.

Very good points. As a 22 year retired firefighter/medic I am fully familiar with what you are talking about. Its the triggering loss that Im concerned about describing, if that last Strain is something petty.

It would be like coming back from a fire where you worked interior suppression for an hour, then had to manage a victim found in cardiac arrest, and then loaded hose for an hour afterward. You come back to the station right on the edge of exhaustion and then realize someone forgot to make coffee.

ARGGHGGGH! You curl up in a fetal position and cry.

I will probably rule it takes a physical or extreme emotional stressor to push a character over. Otherwise, they hang at 1.

Nuff said though, I get it. The GM can wing the description the way he does a lot of other things.

You don't track once you hit the threshold for Strain. You just go unconscious/incapacitated. So there's no 6 Adavantages needed.

As a houserule I allow a Stimpack to "wake" someone. Like smelling salts. It won't heal Strain, too much abuse/OP potential, and it also counts as one of the uses.

This is good stuff, thanks! I will utilise both these ideas.

From the rest of the discussion, depending on the reason why the PC went over the Strain Threshold, I might allow the character a single Manoeuvre that can be used to crawl/stagger about or else take cover (huddle behind/in something) during a combat encounter.

Thanks everyone! I think the players will be happy with this solution.

Just avoid any items for healing Strain, at least in combat. Post encounter, like maybe some kind of combat ration that gives a point of two as long as the PCs can take a break and grab some food and water might be an ok houserule item.

During combat is a no no. More or less guts poor ol Second Wind. Certainly diminishes post encounter Talents like Balance and Rapid Recovery.

I am new to the system to take this for what it worth but I don't see why something like that should break the game. (The GM can always limit its availability if nothing else.)

Right off the top of my head, it would turn lightsaber fights into a dice rolling marathon.

"I hit him with my saber!"

"He uses his parry to mitigate damage for strain. He hits you with a saber"

"I use my Parry to mitigate damage and hit him back."

"He uses his parry and then takes a Strain Stim, putting him back to full health."

And so on. Congrats, you've just broken Saber Combat.