Okay, first off, I must be too dense to get it, but I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how the character creation points were spent for the example characters for the preview adventure (A day late, a shilling short).

So take Kurgi the Troll Slayer for an example. His characteristic stats alone put him over on allowed creation points by my calculation. Raising Str to 5 costs him 9 points (4+5), same for Toughness, and Agility and intelligence are 3 points each. That means he's spent 24 points before buying any skills! Then, he's got to spend 3 more points on Special action cards (Troll feller strike, double strike, shrug it off), plus one more point on skill training (Weapon skill and Intimidate). Even if I assume he's totally broke and his equipment was a gift, I've spent 28 points making this guy, which is way over what Dwarves start with.

Now, is it possible that all the characteristic stats start +1 over the default stats? I know there's a sentence talking about how if you increase each stat by 1 that's the average stat for the particular race, but you don't automatically get that do you? If that's the case I assume you would also gain an 6 extra points from lowering Kurgi's Fel and WP from 3 to 2, and would have plenty to buy him completely, but I don't think that's the case, because if everyone starts out with +1 characteristic why would they make the stats lower in the default table at all?

I feel like this is obvious to everyone else, but I am having trouble with making characters to match the examples in the adventure. Can someone please walk me through this?

I've heard that these Demo characters were not, in fact, at starting level.

I can't post any proof, however...

valhallan said:

Starting characteristics are based on race *and* career. So for a trollslayer they are 4,4,2,2,2,2 Str and To are 3,3 because he's a dwarf, and +1,+1 coz those are the primary characteristics of the Trollslayer career.

It's on p.28 under Generate Characteristics.

Yup, those extra 8 points were the ones you used to raise his strength and toughness from 3 to 4.

Aha! Yep, that's it. That's what I was missing. I knew I had to be missing something very simple to not see anyone else have this problem on the forums. I don't know how I missed the career stat bonus, but I did. That helps out a lot, thanks.

Do characters start with any skills at character creation beyond what they can choose with creation points? I found it odd that a wizard's apprentice could start out not knowing how to channel or cast spells.

Lord_Daxl said:

I am pretty sure that if you read the back of the Career card it states that an Apprentice begins with channeling and casting actions. Otherwise, it does explicitly state so in the character creation rules.

There is some debate as to whether or not initiates begin with the curry favor and its corresponding spell casting actions. IMHO, since neither the rules nor the career state that an initiate begins with the curry/cast actions I have to believe that they do not automatically gain them. This is in keeping with the setting that casting priestly spells is more difficult, albeit safer, than magic.

Agreed. It was always more difficult to advance as a priest and call on divine power than to sling Chaos energy around in 1st edition. I think it's similar here and Initiates do not start with those skills for free.

Read the skill section in the character creation chapter. It talks about wizards (and maybe priest) getting additional cards related to channeling and spells.

FYI,

I went and tried to recreate the characters (roadwarden, troll slayer, and wizard) in the scenario and they all seemed to be at cost or just a little bit under witha caveat. This caveat was that they started with the trappings that was listed on there career cards (so the wizard had a channeling quarterstaff and robe he did not buy). Unfortunately I could not find anywhere that stated you started off with the "suggested trappings" on your career card and hard to purchase that stuff with starting wealth.

nub5 said:

Yeah, I made a post awhile ago about how the demo characters were not beginning characters. But now I am wondering if maybe they ARE brand new characters, and that you DO get the equipment listed on the back of your career card, in addition to your starting money. Not sure what I'll do now.

[q]There is some debate as to whether or not initiates begin with the curry favor and its corresponding spell casting actions. IMHO, since neither the rules nor the career state that an initiate begins with the curry/cast actions I have to believe that they do not automatically gain them. This is in keeping with the setting that casting priestly spells is more difficult, albeit safer, than magic.[/q]

I'm at work so cannot give a page reference, but I seem to recall that in the character creation section under the acquire action cards step it says something to the effect of "special characters such as wizards and priests " get special action cards. Wizards get Channel Power and their petty magic, and priests get Curry Favor and their minor blessings. I believe this is stated in the same paragraph or the one following.

zelbone said:

I am changing my opinion on initiates. I am now of the opinion that initiates begin with all basic prayer actions, which (I believe) would mean that they do begin the game with Curry Favor, et al.

At character creation you get any Basic action cards that you meet the requirements for. The issue is that nowhere does it say that initiates start with (gain for free) the Invocation or Piety skills, which are requirements for the priestly basic action cards. Conversely, ToM says that apprentice wizards get Channeling and Spellcraft for free. So, in order to get the priestly basic action cards, initiates would need to purchase Invocation and Piety skills during creation.

If you move into a career later, you must purchase all action cards. A good example of this is mentioned when it talks about basic defense cards (I don't have a page reference right now though). The rules mention that if you don't meet the characteristic requirement for a basic action card, you don't get it. If you later increase your characteristic such that it meets the requirement, you must purchase the action separately (you don't get it automatically). Similarly, if you move into a new career, you would need to purchase any basic action cards separately.

So, yeah, if you want to be a priest or wizard, you're best starting as one rather than going into it later.

Right...Skills....totally forgot about those.