Well it's now the "iconic" rebel carrier now!

Oh I dunno. Only ONE quasar was ever stolen by the rebels (As far as we know). To me that still makes it an Imperial ship. certainly could be though I suppose.

Thing is, it is now shown iconically from this point on, with the primitive Rebel-Firebird Iconography...

Kind of like how the Neb-B is an Imperial Ship, but iconically a Rebel one...

Very little difference, as it is all perspective.

Fair point. I WAS going to cite the Lambda shuttle from X-WIng being Imperial - only... however you DO see it used by various Imperials in ROTJ AS WELL as rebels.

The problem with doing all of the stuff from Rebels right now, is that we've seen 3 new capital ships belonging to the Rebels.... and only 2 new capital ships for the Empire. This would throw the balance WAY off track, as the Imps are already behind. I want to see ALL of the ships from rebels... even that Pelta which had very little screen time. However I'm not sure how they can even out the numbers if they do a Rebels wave. Can they throw extra Imperial ships in there?

Putting the Carrier on the Imperial Side, would balance things perfectly from a numbers perspective. The Imps would have 3, the rebels would have 2. But thematically, it wouldn't be right.

MAYBE the Carrier could come in a "Stolen Ships" type pack, which includes both Imperial AND rebel cards... but also includes Imperial cards for the Nebulon B, so now the numbers balance out?

Personally, I don't care what ships we get in Wave 4, as long as they are well done, balanced, and properly tested.

I'm more interested in upgrade cards that get various pieces of the meta in line where they need to be:

-Fleet Commanders that synergize with Squadrons.

-Cheap /unnamed fleet commanders. (ex: Imperial: Newly Promoted Admiral. Rebel: Retired Naval Career Officer). These guys could do anything from simply fulfill the Commander role for a cheap 5 pts., or affect minor things. (one us only type dudes.)

-More Objectives Cards.

-Secondary Mission Cards. This is just an idea I'm kicking around. Basically a secondary set of mission objectives that you build into your list (like objectives), but that YOU get to pick from at the beginning of the game in response to your opponent's fleet. These secondary mission cards could set a paradigm for helping to correct metaissues that pop up.

-Officers, Titles, or Commanders that help with the last/first activation clobbering that can happen in the game. (ie, Demolisher, but any ship can really abuse this part of the game.)

-A full campaign/mission pack.

-More obstacles. Would love to see an Attak Wyng style planet, ion clouds/storms

Oh I dunno. Only ONE quasar was ever stolen by the rebels (As far as we know). To me that still makes it an Imperial ship. certainly could be though I suppose.

Thing is, it is now shown iconically from this point on, with the primitive Rebel-Firebird Iconography...

Kind of like how the Neb-B is an Imperial Ship, but iconically a Rebel one...

Very little difference, as it is all perspective.

Fair point. I WAS going to cite the Lambda shuttle from X-WIng being Imperial - only... however you DO see it used by various Imperials in ROTJ AS WELL as rebels.

The problem with doing all of the stuff from Rebels right now, is that we've seen 3 new capital ships belonging to the Rebels.... and only 2 new capital ships for the Empire. This would throw the balance WAY off track, as the Imps are already behind. I want to see ALL of the ships from rebels... even that Pelta which had very little screen time. However I'm not sure how they can even out the numbers if they do a Rebels wave. Can they throw extra Imperial ships in there?

Putting the Carrier on the Imperial Side, would balance things perfectly from a numbers perspective. The Imps would have 3, the rebels would have 2. But thematically, it wouldn't be right.

MAYBE the Carrier could come in a "Stolen Ships" type pack, which includes both Imperial AND rebel cards... but also includes Imperial cards for the Nebulon B, so now the numbers balance out?

Do we need Balance in numbers, though?

Because essentially, The Imperials have the more expensive ships anyway... That itself, is a form of dichotomous equilibrium.

I think with so few ships in the game, we do. I tend to play Imperial more often than not, and it's really difficult for me to build a list that doesn't include an ISD and/or a Gladiator w/Demolisher. These two are almost auto-includes. This results in very few options in terms of build-diversity. Obviously everyone is going to have their own build-process, but for me, having that extra Imperial ship would go a long way towards better build diversity.

Granted my sweet spot would really be like 7-8 ship-types per faction, THEN they could slow down to smaller waves.

I won't say that having additional choices wouldn't be nice... It certainly would be nice... But its not neccessary.

I mean, I take your comment and go as such myself:

I tend to play Rebel more often than not, and its really difficult for me to build a list that doesn't include an AFMK-II or Two, if I'm not including a Mon-Cal. Its an Auto-Include.

It is very few options in terms of build-diversity...

But they are self-imposed. And they are only a snapshot. I mean, an ISD-I with a Carrier Build is vastly Different than a Super-ACC Leading Shot ISD-II with Gunnery Teams... To the point that they would almost be worth calling different ships completely...

I'm all for getting 7-8 ship types per faction.

But I don't want to suddenly have that tomorrow. It'd throw any possible learning curves into chaos, and we'd get THIS IS OP and THAT IS OP crying everywhere like we did when we had Wave 2 Announced... Because that was a Massive Shakeup...

I'm all for smaller waves from this point on... More frequent than yearly or not, doesn't matter... I prefer time to digest all possible combinations before having to jump on the next new thing...

Star Wars: Armada for me is the Scotch Drinking Game... I can sit back, Stroke my beard, and contemplate in the middle of a battle...

Other games are far too hectic for that... Or at the very least, garner me odd looks from Opponents and Onlookers when I do.

Do we need Balance in numbers, though?

Because essentially, The Imperials have the more expensive ships anyway... That itself, is a form of dichotomous equilibrium.

I do think balance in numbers would be a good thing. In fact, that is partly 'because' the Imperials ships cost more. Since they cost more, and have less choices, Imp lists are consequently less diverse than Rebel lists. Add to that the perception (unfair IMHO) that the VSD is obsolete, and there really isn't as much list diversity as there could/should be. So yeah, I would like to have more diversity on the Imperial side. I wouldn't go so far as to say that an ISD and a Demo are pratically auto-includes (maybe at least one of the two though), but they do tend to show up a lot. Getting the Imps another small or medium ship would help.

Course, the flotillas will help quite a bit with that, but the Imps will always have less chance at list diversity as long as they have less ships. Simple numbers.

Course, maybe that isn't necessarily a bad thing and is a bit more flavorful.

I'm all for giving the Imperials another Medium based ship...

But which would be more prevelant:

1) Glee From Imperial Players that they got another Medium Based Ship!
2) Disgust from Imperial Players that it (probably) comes at the cost of the Rebels getting another ship as well.

?

I'm all for giving the Imperials another Medium based ship...

But which would be more prevelant:

1) Glee From Imperial Players that they got another Medium Based Ship!

2) Disgust from Imperial Players that it (probably) comes at the cost of the Rebels getting another ship as well.

?

That doesn't have to be the case though. A future Wave could easily be 2 Imp ships and 1 Rebel (still on par with the smallish waves I am hoping continue moving forward), or 3 and 2 (eh). That said, the more I think about it, I think the flavor win of Imps having less, larger, nastier ships to the rebels generally smaller, cheaper and more abundant options is OK with me (right up until I build my next Imp list that is )

I won't say that having additional choices wouldn't be nice... It certainly would be nice... But its not neccessary.

I mean, I take your comment and go as such myself:

I tend to play Rebel more often than not, and its really difficult for me to build a list that doesn't include an AFMK-II or Two, if I'm not including a Mon-Cal. Its an Auto-Include.

It is very few options in terms of build-diversity...

But they are self-imposed. And they are only a snapshot. I mean, an ISD-I with a Carrier Build is vastly Different than a Super-ACC Leading Shot ISD-II with Gunnery Teams... To the point that they would almost be worth calling different ships completely...

I'm all for getting 7-8 ship types per faction.

But I don't want to suddenly have that tomorrow. It'd throw any possible learning curves into chaos, and we'd get THIS IS OP and THAT IS OP crying everywhere like we did when we had Wave 2 Announced... Because that was a Massive Shakeup...

I'm all for smaller waves from this point on... More frequent than yearly or not, doesn't matter... I prefer time to digest all possible combinations before having to jump on the next new thing...

Star Wars: Armada for me is the Scotch Drinking Game... I can sit back, Stroke my beard, and contemplate in the middle of a battle...

Other games are far too hectic for that... Or at the very least, garner me odd looks from Opponents and Onlookers when I do.

Great post.

I also wouldn't want 7-8 ships tomorrow. It could very well overwhelm people. Not everyone can afford to preorder 1 of each new ship when there's 8 different ships coming with this new hypothetical MEGA-Wave. Plus, how well are we going to get to know each of our new ships? It takes time to feel something out well enough and learn it's interactions. I can appreciate that. I just want more than 1 ship per wave, and these flotillas feel like too little for me... (assuming this is the only thing we're getting in 2016).

I could probably take it slow, like you suggest, if it wasn't for the fact that I'm seeing people sell their stuff and lose interest in Armada left and right. This may not represent the global interest in the game, but as it applies to my personal situation. To be frank, I'm running out of people to play with. And it's a shame. Some have suggested things like "Start up a league, advertise the game, etc". Funny thing is... I did that. I started a facebook group and a weekly play night. It grew, but quickly evovlved into an X-Wing and Imperial Assault group, because almost everyone who was playing Armada stopped... and went on to greener pastures.

I'd hate to just sit back and relax, and in 2020 when we have 9 ships per faction, finally go looking for a game, only to find that nobody cares anymore. That's my fear. That's why I'm worried. That's why I start discussions asking if the game is dead. It sucks to see one of your favorite games collect dust because nobody will play.

I'd hate to just sit back and relax, and in 2020 when we have 9 ships per faction, finally go looking for a game, only to find that nobody cares anymore. That's my fear. That's why I'm worried. That's why I start discussions asking if the game is dead. It sucks to see one of your favorite games collect dust because nobody will play.

The trouble is with those discussions is, essentially a case of "what Now?".

You've brought up the case point...

Armada is being sold off in your area. This is observable fact to you.

Armada, however, is selling great guns around the world, and is only increasing. This is observable fact.

You ask the question - is Armada Dead. The answer to that, based on the World scale, is No.

So that leaves us.

Where Now?

What Now?

What can actually be done for you, other than:

1) Rampant Wishlisting (Which won't be listened to.)

2) Demands on FFG (Which won't be listened to.)

3) Unsolicited Design Production (Which won't be listened to.)

4) Telling you to Shut up (Which, really, isn't fair of anyone involved.)

5) Letting Others Soapbox that the Sky is Falling (See Point 4.)

You tried setting up the league - and it evolved into X-Wing and IA... That's too bad. And unfortunately, thats how it goes sometimes.

I feel, you can either wallow in negativity... Give up. Not do anything. Complain. Etc, etc, etc.

Or, you Set up another Group. Cast the Net Wider. Advertise. At least see if anyone new will get involved... For lack of a better term... Waste your time Trying... because if you're not playing, you're wasting your time one way or another... Its either wasted in wondering what went wrong, in asking if its dead, or its wasted in potentially, fruitlessly attempting to keep it going. Its not easy. It really isn't... But only one of those two options has a potential payoff.

In the very least... Again, personal experience, I found rounding up flyers and advertising a Gaming Club as an After-School Program that involved my favourite game was a hell of a distraction from the fact that I'd not played a game in 8 months... Because I was otherwise community building.

I do plan on trying to get games going again here, but it'll likely be after the X-Wing wave 8 hype settles down. If that don't work I gotta hope for more new products.

I do plan on trying to get games going again here, but it'll likely be after the X-Wing wave 8 hype settles down. If that don't work I gotta hope for more new products.

You may think that is your last hope...

But there is Another...

But it will only come through diligence...

If you accept that the cost of failure is nothing changing, then you have nothing to lose by continually trying.

Mostly because, what I am skeptical about... Is New Product driving people back to the game.

Because even if it does... How Temporary is it? How Frivolous is it, for something to act like that - especially with the price-point of the game as it is...

You are always best served at catering to the loyal. Providing benefit and advantage to those who see something from it.

I mean, what can I do to help, right?

Tell you what... Go to set up a league, go to set up a night... You said there wasn't many tournaments around there, because people weren't showing up...

PM me your Address. I have 5 copies of the Alt-Art X-Wing Card sitting on my desk leftover from my last league. I'll send them to you. Use them as Incentives... Come and play a game, get the Alt-Art Card, just as if it were a tournament... Or maybe set up a league, and have them as incentives to the first 5 who register, or something like that.......

The offer is there, postage on me, if you are willing to give it a shot. If it doesn't work, hey, no price of failure, eh? But if it does work, then Booya. All up from there.

Only condition is you don't give up

Star Wars: Armada for me is the Scotch Drinking Game...

If only The Sentry Box were licenced... oh how the dice would fly!!!

Star Wars: Armada for me is the Scotch Drinking Game...

If only The Sentry Box were licenced... oh how the dice would fly!!!

Dickens Pub used to hold Gaming Sundays... They'd throw boards over their Pool Tables and you could game while the Bar was open - and it was advertised as a gaming/nerding Sunday, so there was (apparently) little regular crowd - only gamers.

I don't know if they still do, though.

other than you could be spending that time playing a game that has a community.

Sure, giving up is an option... But it also removes any legitimacy behind complaints or discussions at the same time...

And I'd personally rather fight Negativity... Even if the fight is fruitless and berated by others.

I don't think someone complaining that their local scene has died when they have put in a solid effort to revive it is wrong for asking so.

I do plan on trying to get games going again here, but it'll likely be after the X-Wing wave 8 hype settles down. If that don't work I gotta hope for more new products.

You may think that is your last hope...

But there is Another...

But it will only come through diligence...

If you accept that the cost of failure is nothing changing, then you have nothing to lose by continually trying.

Mostly because, what I am skeptical about... Is New Product driving people back to the game.

Because even if it does... How Temporary is it? How Frivolous is it, for something to act like that - especially with the price-point of the game as it is...

You are always best served at catering to the loyal. Providing benefit and advantage to those who see something from it.

I mean, what can I do to help, right?

Tell you what... Go to set up a league, go to set up a night... You said there wasn't many tournaments around there, because people weren't showing up...

PM me your Address. I have 5 copies of the Alt-Art X-Wing Card sitting on my desk leftover from my last league. I'll send them to you. Use them as Incentives... Come and play a game, get the Alt-Art Card, just as if it were a tournament... Or maybe set up a league, and have them as incentives to the first 5 who register, or something like that.......

The offer is there, postage on me, if you are willing to give it a shot. If it doesn't work, hey, no price of failure, eh? But if it does work, then Booya. All up from there.

Only condition is you don't give up

You seem like a really nice person and I mean that. Thank you for the offer. I will decline however, not because I'm "quitting", but because everyone who plays in my area already has several of those cards. At Armada's peak, (Here, this was around the Wave 2 prerelease tournaments and the Wave 2 launch) we had a small group but most of us went to all the local tournaments, so most of us all got the same prize support.

As for new product driving people back to the game - I'm fairly confident in that. Because I've seen it before. When Armada came out, there was a brief time where X-Wing started to stale out a little bit. Several X-Wing players started playing Armada. Our local "Star Wars Sundays" became all about Armada, and X-Wing was rarely seen. Then new X-Wing stuff came out and BAM, people were playing X-Wing again!

Some people don't get out that much. Some folks (like myself) are married with kids and have to get permission to go out... having new products always sparks a boost in the crowd turnout, because while the regulars will show up... the part-timers and family folks will also often show up to play as well. That's one thing that bothers me about the possibility of only one release per year with Armada. Less new release days.

The bright side is that there is still X-Wing. X-Wing is a blast and I love that too. And I'm not "Giving up" on Armada just yet, because there certainly might be some hidden product in the pipeline, but I'm also not going to throw away my cloak of "Doom and gloom" just yet either. Like, if a new person asks me which game he or she should buy, I'm PROBABLY not going to suggest Armada. Not only am I uncertain about the game's future, but I'm also uncertain about the opportunities this person will have to play. I'm far more likely to suggest X-Wing for lots of reasons. I'd love for that to change though...

You don't need to tell me about Kids and Gaming

I'm a full time stay at home Dad. My wife works 6 days a week. I havn't gotten in a game of Armada since the start of March, and won't again, until May

But the community build happens regardless, and that, I'm still working on...

One can only try, within their own area, and offer assistance outside... Even if it is politely declined

One can only try.

As far as ships I would like to see in Wave 4, I took to my Star Wars Rebellion manual:

REBELS:

Bulwark Battlecruiser

Liberator Cruiser

Corellian Gunship

Ghost

IMPERIALS:

Tector-Class Star Destroyer

Lancer Frigate

Strike Cruiser

Assault Gunboat Squadron

Commanders:

Rae Sloane

Admiral Daala

Thrawn

Crew:

Count Vidian

Tector maybe...

This is more likely going to be the next Imp heavy ship...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Procursator-class_Star_Destroyer

I really can't see FFG adding the Tector. It would basically just be an ISD model without a hangar with increased hull points and slightly more firepower.

Anyways, this is the most logical/realistic list I can think of for Wave IV.

EMPIRE:

Arquitens light cruiser

Immobilizer-418 Interdictor

Imperial Aces Pack (TIE Defender and TIE Avenger squadrons)

REBELS:

Corellian Gunship

Assault Frigate MK I
Rebel Aces Pack (Z-95 Headhunter and R-41 Starchaser squadrons)

Wave four is gonna be one ship. Jabba's Sail Barge. Calling it now.

Wave four is gonna be one ship. Jabba's Sail Barge. Calling it now.

Oh please. It's totally going to be Cloud City. Wave 4: Objectives and Obstacles. Cloud City, Golan Platforms, derelict ships, and assorted 3D Asteroids.

... Oh shut up. You know you'd buy it.

--edit--

To be completely clear, the "shut up" is totally lighthearted teasing.