I've been involved in law enforcement for ten years. I've been involved in the gaming community for more than twice that.

I've never encountered this phenomenon that this girl is talking about. Maybe she lives in a rapist heavy environment, or games in a sexual offenders rehabilitation clinic, or I dunno. She just seems to be flipping her **** about something that doesn't seem to happen.

It absolutely happens, and it happens everywhere. Just because you personally haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it's not real. What do you stand to lose by taking women at their word?

Thing is, men who harass or assault women rarely do so in front of other men. If you saw someone cat-calling or groping a woman at a convention or a game store, you'd probably try and stop it, wouldn't you? The men who act that way know that. They are discreet with their violence. In order to get away with it, they rely on other men disbelieving the victims: Stop being so emotional. I've never seen it happen. It sounds like you're overreacting. Don't be so hysterical.

That kind of flippant disregard for women's stories is exactly the reason why women have learned to stay the hell away from gaming communities. It's not safe for them. They cannot trust that men will not harass or assault them, and they cannot trust that other men will believe them if it happens.

Don't be part of the problem. Start by believing women.

Sorry, but.. no. There is a huge difference between stating that sexual harassment happens at gaming stores and trying to claim (as you do) that they are inherently more unsafe than other places women frequent like schools, bars, and work places.

"Legitimate protest" should in no way be used to describe Gamergate. Ever.

Okay, I'll partially retract that. I'll admit to missing the start and while I tried to follow the events I wasn't involved.

However it seems pretty clear that for some, if not the vast majority of supporters, it was legitimate. And certainly the main focus of the public tweats were distinctly focused on journalistic integrity, while the media only focused on the trolls.

And dont forget there were sock puppet accounts, trolling, and doxxing all round, but only one side fitted the media narritive. And a lot of people used it as a platform to make completely unrelated points.

There are no NPE lists for me, but there are NPE attitudes, of which I avoid events they attend when I have alternatives. Self-aggrandizing elitists can take a hike as far as I'm concerned. Yet instead of confronting it and "making things worse", I choose to avoid both the confrontation and situation entirely. I have many game stores to choose from and friends to play with so I'm not giving up my hobby by doing so.

I have a friend that cosplays. Every "season" she posts reminders to Facebook that regardless of the character portrayed or appearance of the cosplayer, you don't have permission to take photos of them or interact with them without politely asking them first. She only has the Cons to attend for her chosen hobby and must put up with whomever else attends.

Sorry for being obtuse, here, but what's an "NPE?"

Sorry, but.. no. There is a huge difference between stating that sexual harassment happens at gaming stores and trying to claim (as you do) that they are inherently more unsafe than other places women frequent like schools, bars, and work places.

"Sorry, but no" is not a valid argument. Try again.

It doesn't take very many terrible people to ruin a crowd of people, y'know? 60,000 geeks in Indy. Say one in a hundred is the sort of prick who'd act this way, and suddenly you've got 600 folks running around, spending 10-12 hours a day making other peoples' convention experience miserable.

Right, but is this a problem unique to gaming communities? I don't think it is. The way the tumblr post reads, gaming communities are wretched hives of scum and villainy, the stinking armpit of society filled with rapists and mysoginists. I don't think that's true, I don't think they deviate from the community 'standard' (and I use that word cautiously, I don't mean that it should be accepted, just that there is a certain level of that behaviour in the community).

Your basically asking why aren't there more girl football players! Because they don't wanna play.

But why don't they wanna play?

There are no NPE lists for me, but there are NPE attitudes, of which I avoid events they attend when I have alternatives. Self-aggrandizing elitists can take a hike as far as I'm concerned. Yet instead of confronting it and "making things worse", I choose to avoid both the confrontation and situation entirely. I have many game stores to choose from and friends to play with so I'm not giving up my hobby by doing so.

I have a friend that cosplays. Every "season" she posts reminders to Facebook that regardless of the character portrayed or appearance of the cosplayer, you don't have permission to take photos of them or interact with them without politely asking them first. She only has the Cons to attend for her chosen hobby and must put up with whomever else attends.

Sorry for being obtuse, here, but what's an "NPE?"

Sorry, but.. no. There is a huge difference between stating that sexual harassment happens at gaming stores and trying to claim (as you do) that they are inherently more unsafe than other places women frequent like schools, bars, and work places.

"Sorry, but no" is not a valid argument. Try again.

I know it's hard for you, but there is more text to the right of the quote. Try again to read it and respond if you actually have something to say.

Is this a real life conversation? A much lower percentage of girls are playing x-wing because they don't enjoy the same things boys enjoy... Your basically asking why aren't there more girl football players! Because they don't wanna play. I live in an area where I go to multiple stores to play x-wing. I have made and have many friends that play x-wing. Out of the hundreds of people I play with and yes it is hundreds I think 2 have wives that are interested and wanna play and do play. Out of those 2 I think one actually enjoys it and the other is just using it as more time to spend with there husband. People bring there girlfriends and wives a lot though and I have never seen anything like that that would persuade a girl/woman to not want to play. They don't wanna play because it's just not something the regular girl enjoys. And don't say well I'm a girl I like x-wing.... Well of course there are exceptions to everything.

I look at how Rey and related merchandise has been received. I look at how board gaming is exploding. Clearly, women are fans of Star Wars and gaming. The whole girl/boy likes different things is a complete bull answer.

Yea the fact they don't like it is a bull answer. Sexual harassment must be it. When you really want something to be a certain way you can twist it into that. This whole topic and line of questioning is just trying to create a problem where no problem exists.

If the discussion is why there aren't as many woman mini gamers, it has a large part of how men and women react to stimulus. People like to compare role-playing and wonder why that form of gaming has such diversity, but miss the forest for the tress. Role-playing doesn't have more diversity because they handle themselves any differently, rather role-play simple interests women more than wargaming.

I've been involved in law enforcement for ten years. I've been involved in the gaming community for more than twice that.

I've never encountered this phenomenon that this girl is talking about. Maybe she lives in a rapist heavy environment, or games in a sexual offenders rehabilitation clinic, or I dunno. She just seems to be flipping her **** about something that doesn't seem to happen.

It absolutely happens, and it happens everywhere. Just because you personally haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it's not real. What do you stand to lose by taking women at their word?

Thing is, men who harass or assault women rarely do so in front of other men. If you saw someone cat-calling or groping a woman at a convention or a game store, you'd probably try and stop it, wouldn't you? The men who act that way know that. They are discreet with their violence. In order to get away with it, they rely on other men disbelieving the victims: Stop being so emotional. I've never seen it happen. It sounds like you're overreacting. Don't be so hysterical.

That kind of flippant disregard for women's stories is exactly the reason why women have learned to stay the hell away from gaming communities. It's not safe for them. They cannot trust that men will not harass or assault them, and they cannot trust that other men will believe them if it happens.

Don't be part of the problem. Start by believing women.

Are the authors stories true? Highly debatable. The response from the police is a HUGE clue that she's likely lying about these incidents. There is still a decent chance she isn't lying but with my personal experience I will never agai. Give any woman the benefit of the doubt. Gamers can and do sexually harass (seen it first hand) **** or sexual assault is a different animal entirely. Again she may be telling the truth but sans photographic evidence of bruises from the hand up her skirt I call shenanigans.

Also, I hate to harp on terminology but she seriously needs an education of the definition of terrorism. She is clueless. Source: I'm a counter terrorism analyst with 10 yrs experience.

Tldr: humans can be awful to each other but buying a tall tale just because a woman tells it is sexist.

BTW, can we get your source showing game stores are more dangerous for women than anywhere else? Something non-anictodle.

Lets keep the autistic SJW melodrama where it belongs:

https://www.tumblr.com/

And we are at the end. 4 pages, not too bad.

If women don't play X-Wing, why is that a problem? Why does the gender of my opponent matter?

If women don't play X-Wing, why is that a problem? Why does the gender of my opponent matter?

It doesn't and it shouldn't. I think that's one of OPs points.

Its funny because I've seen all sides of this coin. I've seen communities with a lot of men who harass women and I've seen communities that actively discourage such behavior and do not have it.

The fact is though it is a huge problem within our community (gamers at large not just X-wing) and is something that needs to be addressed.
"Women don't feel safe in a gamer heavy community."

This does not mean that all women feel like they are harrassed, or even that they do not feel unsafe

just because YOU haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist elsewhere

You are correct that it is not our job to make sure everyone feels comfortable in the community

BUT it sure as hell is our job to discourage such behavior that makes people feel uncomfortable

The point of the matter is that this type of behavior should not be tolerated

Whether or not her story is 100% accurate is irrelevant

even if only 10% of what she says is true that's still horrendous.

Star Wars is a film series that has a ton strong independent women who are great role models for young women. Most of my friends who like star wars are women
The girl who I am dating is also a huge fan of star wars

I am saying this for them

Sexual Harrasment is not okay at any level

If you see it, say something

if you don't, understand it exists

Just my two cents- I can't speak to store or tourney environments, as I rarely see them, but I've found it difficult getting any women I know interested in wargaming, in general, be it Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, or whatever else. This is in reference to completely private, one on one settings, where the same woman will happily hang out alone with me in general, but the specific activity of wargaming simply does not appeal. The same has usually proven true in group settings. Maybe we don't see as many women at events because there simply aren't as many women interested in these sorts of games?

I mean another problem with gamers that I notice (and I do it too) is that we all are very defensive.

I feel like it stems from some lack of confidence or feeling a need to defend our hobbies but we all need to stop being defensive

BY SAYING THERE'S A PROBLEM IN THE COMMUNITY DOES NOT MEAN THAT PROBLEM IS YOU

We are saying that there are people who are harrassing women and need to stop doing so
We are not saying that YOU are harrassing women

If you are please stop prepetuating the stereotype

If you are not than I can assume you do not support the harrasment of women and should do what i suggested earlier and speak up if you see it.

The problem with these threads is how defensive people get in them
We are not gonna stop playing the game by admitting there are assholes in the community.

If bad people made games unplayable yugioh wouldn't exist (shots fired sorry, bad experiences there)

I'm not saying do a witch hunt, I'm saying be mindful

Because the real problem here

even if what she is saying is all lies

the fact that most of us can point to examples of such behavior within our communities or knows someone who has seen it means that its still a problem

Male White Gamers are the cause of all evilz!
They should be ashamed they are Male White Gamers!

[/sarcasm]

You do understand some people will just not read it further, right?

Man, I'm not a violent person, but if I saw someone treat a woman like a piece of **** in a gaming store, I'd be in jail because he'd have a belly full of his models with two black eyes he couldnt see from.

I simply don't care. 99.99% of women I know would have no interest in this game. Any that do are more than welcome to play and will be treated very well around here.

This non stop lecturing bull crap is lame and I personally could care less about your theories.

And THIS the reason why I wrote a post HERE in the off topic forums.

See to me racism, sexism, attacks against religious or political beliefs, and the like should not be tolerated. It doesn't matter who the victim is and who the perpetrator is. It doesn't matter if the person across the 3x3 field of stars, debris, and asteroids i'm getting ready to (hopefully) enjoy the next 75 minutes of taking little plastic star-ship battles as seriously as any admiral takes a war is a middle aged white man, a young asian kid, or a 80 year old African-American Grandmother, or any other of the diverse combinations that humans can come in under the sun or the moon. I'm there to have fun, roll some dice, and with a bit of luck, and a bit of skill out fly my opponent, ideally with us both ending the game with a handshake, an exchange of "Good Game" and a smile as we pack up and discuss the key turning points, and lucky (or unlucky) rolls we both had.

While a conversation on the topic could be good. I am saddened, and appalled with how you started it. You ask are "Are Male White Gamers the Problem?". To that i say Two Things.

1 - If it was intentional to try and create a stir with flamebait, same on you. We as a community should be, and can be, better then that. If that was not your intention, then please understand that not only are there better ways to pose such a question if you want an actual conversation on the matter, and not a mudslinging, blame game, shouting match. You are attacking a whole group of people, stereotyping, generalizing, and discriminating against them based upon their race and gender. Which leads to point number 2

2 - You are asking the wrong question. The question is not "Are male White Gamers the Problem?" The question should be "Do female and minority gamers feel safe and welcome, if not how can we fix it?" Your question makes the assumption that they do not, and further makes the assumption that it is a specific subset of the gaming population that is the issue. Now, i know you may say "But i was just asking IF they were the problem, not blaming them!" The problem with that is that the question is an attack, and forces the answer to be defensive instead of investigative. It's the difference between asking "Who killed this person?" and "Are you the murderer?". One is a investigative question, the other is a accusation.

You used the question as an attack, doing so prevents positive and constructive conversation and discourse. It creates a argument where one side has to prove they are innocent instead of having a discussion on the issue. So in surmation

"Are White Males the problem?" No

"Do women and minorities feel safe, and welcome in the x-wing community?" I cannot answer for them, but i have never personally seen someone singled out in a malicious manner at any event, from just game nights at the store to the recent hoth event at adepticon. Though I also will not dismiss such stories outright, but i do find it harder to believe because of my personal experience, and the experiences of those who i know.

"If they do not feel safe and welcome, what can we do to change that?" We can strive in the words of Bill S. Preston, Esq. and Ted "Theodore" Logan to "Be Excellent To Each Other". If you see someone being inappropriate, don't just be glad it isn't you and ignore it, say something. That doesn't mean you need to intervene yourself, but there are staff at stores and conventions, there fellow gamers, and if the situation merits it, there is always the police. At events where there are children, keep an eye on them for their parents. This doesn't mean you are responsible for them, but if you see a toddler playing with a power strip, remove them from the situation and find the adult they belong with. If you see someone being a creeper, overly handsy, mention something to the convention staff, or simply ask the person they are creeping on if they are ok.

X-wing, in my experience has a awesome community, and it will stay that way as long as we hold ourselves to that standard.

Fly Casual, and Be Excellent to each other.

..... of course i have been known to spout crazy from time to time, so who knows.

I can hardly believe this kind of thing would be allowed or accepted anywhere, let alone in a gaming area. In well over 20 years now of gaming I've never seen, or even heard of such happening to any one. I mean I've seen temper tantrums to be sure, and guys get a little heated vs one another, or even the threat of a fight between two guys over, dumb stuff. The article however feels over the top. If it isn't, then yes, it needs to be stopped, as such is really sickening behavior.

I do however protest that this is because us " White Males " are just monsters. Sounds like some really creepy awful game areas to be sure. I've never encountered such, would never tolerate such and don't know any friends of mine who would, nor do I know any stores that would.

So that said, I'm not going to feel I'm part of any of this problem, if the problem exists in other places, that makes me feel very bad, and if that is why there is such disparity in who games, that is a real shame, all I can say is never would happen here and if it did even once, would be the last time it happened.