But haven't you heard you can't be racist or sexist against straight white men.

Yes, us poor, downtrodden white men who have CONTROLLED THE WORLD FOR A THOUSAND YEARS.

http://www.returnofkings.com/32053/this-accidental-experiment-shows-the-superiority-of-patriarchy

If we hadn't we'd still be in grass huts to paraphrase Camille paglia.

This is so easy to fix. Everyone, be you male, female, trans, black, purple, whatever you might be - just don't be dicks! Treat each other nicely, and don't bring out your edgy sense of humour unless you know the person you're playing.

The X-wing community is a pretty good one, but we all see behaviour as referenced in that article from time to time. I don't care if the article is true or not. It doesn't actually matter. Gender discrimination is a real thing and there is no one in the world who wouldn't benefit from reading this and thinking twice about how they come across to new people.

Thank you. I was hoping to hear more stories like this. I only listed the link because it is what got me thinking. Hearing of successful stores with a healthy population and how X-Wing plays there is what I was wanting to see some of.

I think the X-wing community is overall better than most other game systems. I don't think you really have a problem with X-wingers being the issue here. Are there perhaps some issues somewhere? Sure, X-wingers are human and I'm sure somewhere, some gamer who plays X-wing was nasty. I wouldn't count it as a general attitude, though.

The local game stores that reek of unbathed males tend to be dominated by other game systems more so than X-wing.

WESTMORELAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin, Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say "To-morrow is Saint Crispian."
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say "These wounds I had on Crispin's day."
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words—
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester—
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

And to me that sums it up.

My opponents. My allies, in both video games and table top. Across a line or right next to me.

It's a privilege to game with you.

I'm a HUGE co-op gaming fan for this reason, I love being part of a team.

I truly do not care who you are, your background. If you are on my team you are my battle brother. If you are my opponent then my own coda demands I respect you (because underestimating or disrespecting your opponent will invariably lead to a fall).

So yeah. That.

When I see the SJW crowd go out, I facepalm. Because all that indignancy is being thrown around in such a haphazard, unfocused way, at generally the wrong people.

What we need to take from this is that there are people treating other people as sex objects and abusing them in the tabletop community and that has to stop, and that it won't stop if we tolerate it.

That point is all tangled up in tumblr politics, it comes across as bigoted (and that's bad) but we can't dismiss the problem it's complaining about because of it. We need to be able to pull that important detail out of the pain-fuelled maybe bigoted broad lashing out at race and gender groups it's tangled up in rather than getting tangled up in it ourselves.

Gender discrimination is a real thing and there is no one in the world who wouldn't benefit from reading this and thinking twice about how they come across to new people.

I think this thread is evidence to the contrary. A lot of people can't see past what they see as abuse directed towards them.

What we need is a strong message against sex discrimination without counterproductive generalisation. The majority of the internet is absolutely terrible at PR and is more likely to sabotage their message than promote it. I don't think this particular post achieves that as its inflammatory language bogs it down in gender politics instead.

Forum Tenet #1 by Estarriol

Everyone, whatever you might be - don't be dicks!

This is so easy to fix. Everyone, be you male, female, trans, black, purple, whatever you might be - just don't be dicks! Treat each other nicely, and don't bring out your edgy sense of humour unless you know the person you're playing.

The X-wing community is a pretty good one, but we all see behaviour as referenced in that article from time to time. I don't care if the article is true or not. It doesn't actually matter. Gender discrimination is a real thing and there is no one in the world who wouldn't benefit from reading this and thinking twice about how they come across to new people.

Part of the problem is people that don't socialize enough failing to understand what qualifies as being a ****. I've done this a few times, though not to the point of sexually harassing someone. I did once make a joke about a prosthetic leg that was not taken well, although an apology was enough to smooth it over.

This is so easy to fix. Everyone, be you male, female, trans, black, purple, whatever you might be - just don't be dicks! Treat each other nicely, and don't bring out your edgy sense of humour unless you know the person you're playing.

The X-wing community is a pretty good one, but we all see behaviour as referenced in that article from time to time. I don't care if the article is true or not. It doesn't actually matter. Gender discrimination is a real thing and there is no one in the world who wouldn't benefit from reading this and thinking twice about how they come across to new people.

Part of the problem is people that don't socialize enough failing to understand what qualifies as being a ****. I've done this a few times, though not to the point of sexually harassing someone. I did once make a joke about a prosthetic leg that was not taken well, although an apology was enough to smooth it over.

What's important is that you learned from it. The problem is when instead of learning from it people instead try to defend it and to paint the person who didn't take the joke about their disability well as the guilty party.

I'm tired of the white male bashing. No, we are not part of the problem and I don't believe the original blog post either. It's another hit piece with an agenda. "Agenda Theater" as very well put by someone else on this forum. The topics put forward are serious but how can they be linked to a white race issue? Total garbage and doesn't belong on the forum.

Did you even read the post before dismissing it completely?

There's a reason why this behavior is linked to white males...

Hi.

I've been going back and forth on if I wanted to weigh in on this and I've decided I do.

I'm a 25 year old female TO at my local game store. I was a TO/Judge/Marshall/whatever a store championship that created a 14+ page thread here with another woman. I will also be TOing/Marshalling at the regionals my store is hosting (so if you're coming to the sunshine state you'll get to see my smiling face bright and early for registration).

I can't help but laugh as I read this thread, because it's proving something I've said to my fiancé (a regular poster here and the person who runs our local x-wing league) many times - men respect other men more than they respect women.

I've been in gaming for a while. I'm actually the one who begged my fiancé to start a DnD group. Sure, I joined x-wing to spend more time with him, but also because it's fun. Here's some things I've noticed.

- Since being engaged I don't get the sexual harassment I used to get. I used to be told that I was nothing but a hole, that my opinion didn't matter and I needed to "get in the kitchen". I used to no be able to tell someone 'no' without them going on about how "oh you gamer girls are all alike, you don't want to talk to anyone you're just here to be told you look good. Well I'm not going to do that, you're average at best" and other hurt nonsense. Since I got a ring on my finger, guys don't do that kind of stuff. Why? Because they RESPECT MY FIANCE MORE THAN THEY RESPECT ME. My no doesn't mean anything, but the idea that they could be encroaching on another man's "territory" does, so they back off.

- The most obvious way I've been treated like **** happens daily. It comes from players holding up ships and saying, "oh yeah? Then what's this?" It comes from my fellow TO getting asked if she "even plays x-wing". It comes from people looking to my fiancé or another man for confirmation of what I say because they don't trust that I know the rules. Judgments are passed about me because of what's between my legs that would never be considered if I had a beard. Like a spectator to a tournament yelling at me, calling me "hysterical" (which, if you look up the roots of the word is gendered and, for the situation, completely inappropriate).

The important thing to remember is you lose nothing from believing a victim. And I can believe what she said, because they have happened to me.

Women are PEOPLE. We are not there to give you something pretty to look at. Treat us like people, and don't push yourself onto a woman who tells you no. I am in a male dominated field, and I have had customers call me a "little girl" at work. It is not just gaming, it is EVERYWHERE.

But in the gaming community the men have a reputation for casual sexism because of things like gamergate, because so many women feel like they walk into a game store and have to be on guard.

At gencon last year, the Doubleclicks played at the Concert Against Humanity. And they played a song that really spoke to me, because they introduced it and said, "Hey you guys need to listen to this, because it can change a lot of things." (paraphrase)

I'll post it now, because ultimately, my point is this. I DO NOT because most gamers are rapists or prone to sexual assault. But I do think they are prone to not letting me in their world if I don't know who illustrated that issue of spiderman. Or who originally piloted that ship in the expanded universe. That's the type of sexism I've experienced.

Your mileage may vary, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Rjy5yW1gQ

I'm mostly concerned with how my post from yesterday in the correct subforum (actually about x-wing, btw) got 0 replies. Maybe I should just post only in the main forum from now on and put something controversial in it so I can actually get a discussion going.

Sorry but what is thee point of this topic?? Why don't women play games?

It's not really all that complex is it?

You can't seriously expect both genders to enjoy the same things in equal amounts.

Guys like blown stuff up gals don't in general.

I have a hard time believing this is real, to be honest. Is the point here to believe this happens behind the scenes and I've just never seen/heard about it at all for the last 20 years or so of gaming? There are lots of reasons why it's been primarily a male dominated industry, for the same reasons video games still are.

I had a hard time believing that groping in subways is a thing either. It never occurred to me that a men would be so dumb to do something which by all means could end with a knife in his liver and nearly zero chance for him to protect himself. Yet friends told me that this seems to be a thing were they live from their first hand experiences. Still, totally beyond comprehension from my perspective, nearly unthinkable.

Guess I should not rule out stuff that easily.

http://latining.tumblr.com/post/141567276944/tabletop-gaming-has-a-white-male-terrorism-problemis for sure something that seems unthinkable from my perspective, but the failings of american police, the low security on american streets, having lots of freaks running around with guns and a lot more cultural things about america seem unbelievable and absurd to me as well. Just because something is beyond my experience, it not automatically false.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/pokemon-world-championship-alleged-shooting-plot-foiled/story?id=33279253is just as unbelievable to be honest.

I'm tired of the white male bashing. No, we are not part of the problem and I don't believe the original blog post either. It's another hit piece with an agenda. "Agenda Theater" as very well put by someone else on this forum. The topics put forward are serious but how can they be linked to a white race issue? Total garbage and doesn't belong on the forum.

Did you even read the post before dismissing it completely?

There's a reason why this behavior is linked to white males...

He would not call it "hit piece with an agenda" if he had read it. Having no agenda and claiming some sort of neutrality was so heavily and rightfully criticized that it would have provoced at least some form of reaction from this Dweller.

You can't seriously expect both genders to enjoy the same things in equal amounts.

Guys like blown stuff up gals don't in general.

I refer here simply to my signature while laughing.

I'm tired of the white male bashing. No, we are not part of the problem and I don't believe the original blog post either. It's another hit piece with an agenda. "Agenda Theater" as very well put by someone else on this forum. The topics put forward are serious but how can they be linked to a white race issue? Total garbage and doesn't belong on the forum.

Did you even read the post before dismissing it completely?

There's a reason why this behavior is linked to white males...

Here is a very small example of the problem.

Part 1: "Did you even read the post before dismissing it completely?"

This part is valid. He's skimmed the post and as soon as he's read it as an attack on him he's dismissed the rest. The confrontation tone is likely to turn him against you rather than win him over but you are pointing out something he did.

Part 2: "There's a reason why this behaviour is linked to white males..."

And here you stab yourself in the foot. You've just linked him skimming over a post and getting the wrong idea to his race and gender. You've linked him taking offence at what he believes to be an unjustified attack on him based on race and gender to his race and gender. You've just validated the stance you were trying to change.

Sorry but what is thee point of this topic?? Why don't women play games?

It's not really all that complex is it?

You can't seriously expect both genders to enjoy the same things in equal amounts.

Guys like blown stuff up gals don't in general.

That is bull. PEOPLE like different things. No one is expecting equal amounts, but, given that how popular Star Wars is among women, you do have to question why gaming in general is 99% male.

Let's look at some stereotypes.

The girly girl.

The fat sweaty (smelly) geek who hasn't showered in a week.

The emos.

The pedantic nerds.

You can easily visualize all of these.

In my opinion, only one of the above is a real issue. (it's not the girly girl, they can be as girly or as tomboyish as they want - who cares?)

I once went to a game store to pick up stuff, and there was a magic tourny taking place.

I wish I had my gas mask.

I'm tired of the white male bashing. No, we are not part of the problem and I don't believe the original blog post either. It's another hit piece with an agenda. "Agenda Theater" as very well put by someone else on this forum. The topics put forward are serious but how can they be linked to a white race issue? Total garbage and doesn't belong on the forum.

Did you even read the post before dismissing it completely?

There's a reason why this behavior is linked to white males...

Yes I read the post and I read the original "story" yesterday. Unlike a lot of others I make an informed post and not one based on emotion without any facts. Please share the specific evidence that this behavior is linked to white males.

I don't care what race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever else I missed I play against as long as I can watch the tears flow freely from their eyes as my Y-wings execute a perfect maneuver eviscerating their list, and leaving their ships behind vaporized to forever vanish into the dusts of obscurity, and be forgotten in the annals in history. This is my joy in life, and this is why I live.

I was supposed to say something like that, right?

Sorry but what is thee point of this topic?? Why don't women play games?

It's not really all that complex is it?

You can't seriously expect both genders to enjoy the same things in equal amounts.

Guys like blown stuff up gals don't in general.

That is bull. PEOPLE like different things. No one is expecting equal amounts, but, given that how popular Star Wars is among women, you do have to question why gaming in general is 99% male.

Uhm, videogames are these days with 54% or so females ;-)

And to add to statistic some anecdotal evidence: My flgs has usually 30~40% females browsing the goods. Admittedly it's primary an board game and p&p store, which has on top of it ffg miniature games. But 99% sounds irrational even for tabletops.

YwingAce! What is best in life?

"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women."

YwingAce! What is best in life?

"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their significant others."

Careful, you just made another stereotype that could get you in trouble (especially in this thread)

Sorry but what is thee point of this topic?? Why don't women play games?

It's not really all that complex is it?

You can't seriously expect both genders to enjoy the same things in equal amounts.

Guys like blown stuff up gals don't in general.

That is bull. PEOPLE like different things. No one is expecting equal amounts, but, given that how popular Star Wars is among women, you do have to question why gaming in general is 99% male.

Uhm, videogames are these days with 54% or so females ;-)

And to add to statistic some anecdotal evidence: My flgs has usually 30~40% females browsing the goods. Admittedly it primary an board game and p&p store, which has on top of it ffg miniature games. But 99% sounds irrational even for tabletops.

Alright. sod it. I've seen this statistic enough times now.

Time to debunk the heck out of it.

Too much of that 54% is casual games like Candy crush. We still need more real gaming girls. My squad needs a "Vasquez" dammit.

Speaking of which, everyone.

Vasquez. World needs more Vasquez's

I don't care what race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever else I missed I play against as long as I can watch the tears flow freely from their eyes as my Y-wings execute a perfect maneuver eviscerating their list, and leaving their ships behind vaporized to forever vanish into the dusts of obscurity, and be forgotten in the annals in history. This is my joy in life, and this is why I live.

I was supposed to say something like that, right?

Not really, more interesting would have been if you did notice some issues or maybe if talking to your females friends can bring up similar issues in your local area. Which would be totally ****** up for sure, but ignorance is imho not bliss.

YwingAce! What is best in life?

"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their significant others."

Careful, you just made another stereotype that could get you in trouble (especially in this thread)

What, so you are saying Women aren't allowed to Lament now? You've taken that too! CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE MAN!

YwingAce! What is best in life?

"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their significant others."

Careful, you just made another stereotype that could get you in trouble (especially in this thread)

Conan is an eternal classics. It is a quote worthy of the moment xD