Warning... subject matter is strong and may cause a reaction... it did in me...

I was actually having a good weekend, enjoying the Hoth Open, all of the fun with the podcast switcheroos, and being on Twitter during all of it. At the same time, I have been backstage on our local theatre's production of Steel Magnolias. And then I came across James D'Amato's (One Shot / Campaign Podcast... for those of you that follow any of the Star Wars RPG people) post:

James D'Amato
@ OneShotRPG

And here we go again...

If there was previous discussion on this, let me know. I'm not trying to cause a flame war. I'm actually interested in what others are seeing in their stores.

The conversation never ends well.

Oh, oh gads not this again. I'm sorry, but I also have a very odd feeling that this lady somehow has gotten the perfect storm for harassment, that aside, this is the wrong forum for this, and has been at least 2 topics like this in this last month.

The conversation never ends well.

Oh, oh gads not this again. I'm sorry, but I also have a very odd feeling that this lady somehow has gotten the perfect storm for harassment, that aside, this is the wrong forum for this, and has been at least 2 topics like this in this last month.

Agreed. I've seen so many of these threads that I would almost say this should be locked before things get out of hand.

Get a conceal carry license so you can carry a firearm.

Someone grabs at your rear you have the right to defend yourself if I'm not mistaken.

The conversation never ends well.

Oh, oh gads not this again. I'm sorry, but I also have a very odd feeling that this lady somehow has gotten the perfect storm for harassment, that aside, this is the wrong forum for this, and has been at least 2 topics like this in this last month.

Agreed. I've seen so many of these threads that I would almost say this should be locked before things get out of hand.

Sexual harassment in the gaming community is a huge deal and the fact that some assholes get so up in arms just from people trying to talk about it only proves how big an issue it is. Trying to censor the topic just because your afraid some pathetic sexist manchild will throw a tantrum is exactly the kind of thing that lets thing like this persist in a community.

I haven't really seen anything like this happening in X Wing... and yet I attended four store championships this last month and there was not a single female participant so something does seem amiss.

Most people here don't have the emotional maturity necessary to properly discuss/understand this issue. Instead of trying to make them understand their privilege you're better off just being the change you want to see.

I have a hard time believing this is real, to be honest. Is the point here to believe this happens behind the scenes and I've just never seen/heard about it at all for the last 20 years or so of gaming? There are lots of reasons why it's been primarily a male dominated industry, for the same reasons video games still are.

I don't. Not being visible is part of the problem. I have seen a wide variety of gamers, and do not doubt for a second that it contains those doing what she described.

Fair cop. I guess I have been lucky and have been involved with RPG and tabletop gaming groups for the last 15 years or so that were a pretty even mix of husbands and wives. Two different sets... one theatre based and one heavily nerd based (with THACO Only nerds). I had never really considered it to be an issue and I would certainly have a problem with anyone around that was blatant about that kind of abuse.

But what concerned me was the noticeable absence... and it being at odds with how we consider ourselves as better than other gaming communities.

Sexual harassment in the gaming community is a huge deal and the fact that some assholes get so up in arms just from people trying to talk about it only proves how big an issue it is. Trying to censor the topic just because your afraid some pathetic sexist manchild will throw a tantrum is exactly the kind of thing that lets thing like this persist in a community.

No, I don't get in arms about it. I'm just tired of seeing this topic in the main X-wing page and not the off topic. You yourself even state that it isn't that big of a deal in the x-wing community which further solidifies that it doesn't need to be in the topic page. I'm all for awareness, I just believe you need to place it in the correct place, and not in an area that will just cause the thread to get locked due to the crap fest this will derail off to.

And here we go again...

Once more with feeling...

I have a hard time believing this is real, to be honest. Is the point here to believe this happens behind the scenes and I've just never seen/heard about it at all for the last 20 years or so of gaming? There are lots of reasons why it's been primarily a male dominated industry, for the same reasons video games still are.

....If you don't think this happens with video games you have obviously never listened to the conversation a single X Box live match of any game featuring a female player. And I've seen this first hand for 40k, luckily my old store had a zero strikes policy on sexual harassment but nearly a dozen people were banned before they got the message that the group here wouldn't tolerate that BS like their old hang outs.

The main reason I did not put it in Off-Topic, which maybe it would have gotten a more mature audience, so I understand the concern, is that I'm actually very interested in WHY we think there aren't more women involved in X-Wing. It's as valid a topic as how good a twitter feed was for the Hoth Open. Or how fast a cargo ship can cover the ocean.

If at all possible, don't just go with your knee-jerk reaction. Actually think about why we don't see mothers playing games of X-Wing with daughters in stores like we see fathers playing games of X-Wing with sons.

If there was previous discussion on this, let me know. I'm not trying to cause a flame war. I'm actually interested in what others are seeing in their stores.

There have been several threads like this, and as Sithborg says, they don't end well.

It's a shame: it's a conversation that needs to be had, but knees jerk and tempers flare and now everyone's yelling and nothing's getting accomplished. I think it's a conversation better had in person, where people aren't pseudonymous and tend to be more closely bound by social norms about swearing, flipping tables, etc.

If there was previous discussion on this, let me know. I'm not trying to cause a flame war. I'm actually interested in what others are seeing in their stores.

There have been several threads like this, and as Sithborg says, they don't end well.

It's a shame: it's a conversation that needs to be had, but knees jerk and tempers flare and now everyone's yelling and nothing's getting accomplished. I think it's a conversation better had in person, where people aren't pseudonymous and tend to be more closely bound by social norms about swearing, flipping tables, etc.

Very true. Maybe it was a knee-jerk reaction to a thought-filled day on my part.

In my experience, a lot of people that play these type of games ie table top miniatures, have a severe lack of social skills and do not know how to be around people of the opposite sex. Their social interaction comes from Video gaming and playing with their friends, people they understand how to be around. I believe that these people say what comes into their minds without thinking, which they probably shouldn't say. Along with this goes the keyboard warrior mantle. A lot of people who are too cowardly to say boo to anyone in the real world, but can spout such filth online because they are protected by the anonymity of the internet, I find this sort of cowardice disgusting.

Thank you for sharing this Grayfax, some ****ers need a re education.

The main reason I did not put it in Off-Topic, which maybe it would have gotten a more mature audience, so I understand the concern, is that I'm actually very interested in WHY we think there aren't more women involved in X-Wing. It's as valid a topic as how good a twitter feed was for the Hoth Open. Or how fast a cargo ship can cover the ocean.

If at all possible, don't just go with your knee-jerk reaction. Actually think about why we don't see mothers playing games of X-Wing with daughters in stores like we see fathers playing games of X-Wing with sons.

This is something that has been bugging me a lot lately as well, because Star Wars is for everyone and there are just as many female fans as there are male but our community demographics don't seem to reflect that.

Actually, I'm more interested in the local store and tournament venues. The online presence has been very aboveboard (for the most part) and I've not detected any bias except for the uber-hatred some have for PWTs and anything new.

In my experience, a lot of people that play these type of games ie table top miniatures, have a severe lack of social skills and do not know how to be around people of the opposite sex. Their social interaction comes from Video gaming and playing with their friends, people they understand how to be around. I believe that these people say what comes into their minds without thinking, which they probably shouldn't say. Along with this goes the keyboard warrior mantle. A lot of people who are too cowardly to say boo to anyone in the real world, but can spout such filth online because they are protected by the anonymity of the internet, I find this sort of cowardice disgusting.

Thank you for sharing this Grayfax, some ****ers need a re education.

Fair cop. I guess I have been lucky and have been involved with RPG and tabletop gaming groups for the last 15 years or so that were a pretty even mix of husbands and wives. Two different sets... one theatre based and one heavily nerd based (with THACO Only nerds). I had never really considered it to be an issue and I would certainly have a problem with anyone around that was blatant about that kind of abuse.

But what concerned me was the noticeable absence... and it being at odds with how we consider ourselves as better than other gaming communities.

RPGs tend to not be nearly as bad about this, the competitiveness really amps things up and when people like Angel described feel their masculinity threatened by the idea of loosing to a girl it leads to this.

I have a hard time believing this is real, to be honest. Is the point here to believe this happens behind the scenes and I've just never seen/heard about it at all for the last 20 years or so of gaming? There are lots of reasons why it's been primarily a male dominated industry, for the same reasons video games still are.

....If you don't think this happens with video games you have obviously never listened to the conversation a single X Box live match of any game featuring a female player. And I've seen this first hand for 40k, luckily my old store had a zero strikes policy on sexual harassment but nearly a dozen people were banned before they got the message that the group here wouldn't tolerate that BS like their old hang outs.

Thankfully never listened to an Xbox live match. I play lots of games, but mostly with family and friends, and never on consoles. I've been war gaming on tabletops and playing RPGs (often with women) for 20 years and have never experienced this. I'm not sayi it never happens, or that it can't, but my own personal experiences are such that I never would have thought to put "sexual harassment" as a reason more women don't play 40k. The article in question would have me believe it's the primary one.

I routinely invite my wife, friends, step mother, etc... To play board games and such at the local club and grab lunch or dinner and it's never been an issue. I can certainly say I've never thought of sexually harassing anyone at the club or elsewhere, and I am definitely a gamer.

It's sad if this is actually the case elsewhere.

I have a hard time believing this is real, to be honest. Is the point here to believe this happens behind the scenes and I've just never seen/heard about it at all for the last 20 years or so of gaming? There are lots of reasons why it's been primarily a male dominated industry, for the same reasons video games still are.

....If you don't think this happens with video games you have obviously never listened to the conversation a single X Box live match of any game featuring a female player. And I've seen this first hand for 40k, luckily my old store had a zero strikes policy on sexual harassment but nearly a dozen people were banned before they got the message that the group here wouldn't tolerate that BS like their old hang outs.

Thankfully never listened to an Xbox live match. I play lots of games, but mostly with family and friends, and never on consoles. I've been war gaming on tabletops and playing RPGs (often with women) for 20 years and have never experienced this. I'm not sayi it never happens, or that it can't, but my own personal experiences are such that I never would have thought to put "sexual harassment" as a reason more women don't play 40k. The article in question would have me believe it's the primary one.

I routinely invite my wife, friends, step mother, etc... To play board games and such at the local club and grab lunch or dinner and it's never been an issue. I can certainly say I've never thought of sexually harassing anyone at the club or elsewhere, and I am definitely a gamer.

It's sad if this is actually the case elsewhere.

Thats often the issue unfortunately, not all local stores are vigilant about stopping this sort of behavior and some actively encourage it and really it only takes one bad encounter to ruin the game for someone.

Well, my daughter is only 3 so she's a bit young. However I have been introducing her to the star wars universe and I fully intend to teach her to play X wing when she's old enough, as long as she's interested of course. I think X wing would be a great way to have father daughter bonding time.