I doubt it though.

Doubt all you want. You are one of the Naysayers, after all

I doubt it though.

Doubt all you want. You are one of the Naysayers, after all

I'm question-asker. Asking the question "Is Armada dead?" isn't technically naysaying. I do love this game. I was absolutely blown away by how interesting, fun, and exciting it was when I first played it. I'm extremely anxious to get more variety of ships however, and with the delay in announcements, and then finally this smaller announcement it makes me worry. Granted, using the word "Dead" is an admitted exaggeration, but it's part of the discussion. There is always something lost in typed text. Real conversations are much better and more productive.

But I like the back and forth. There have been some well thought-out and well written responses, alongside a few people who think I'm somehow trying to slam FFG or attack them somehow. Couldn't be farther from the truth. FFG has given me a new livelihood with these incredible games.

(Just picked up Rebellion BTW and OMG it's really really cool! - Probably won't ever need an expansion either, but don't worry I won't ask if it's "dead'!)

I'll grant you, it's possible the potential impact of Flotillas have caused them to do nothing else.

I doubt it though. I think the impact will be significant, but still small. CR-90s and Raiders still give us the ability to have a lot of ships on the board. Granted flotillas will allows us to have even more activations, but this isn't a new concept... they are just expanding upon an existing concept. This is cool, but I don't see it as being that huge.

The bigger change is the new Fleet Support upgrade. But even that might not be that big of a change. The few cards we've seen aren't exactly game breaking. Plus they do playtest this stuff, so I'm sure they have a realistic idea of how this will impact things.

A fair enough outlook. However, consider the amount of play testing that goes into MtG, and then look at the banned card list it has. Players are a clever bunch, and inevitably they will find combinations and tactics the game testers miss. Even the smallest change can result in game breaking tactics.

Consider: Say an SSD is planned eventually. They work hard to balance its abilities between its firepower and lumbering size. After its release, a clever player finds a way to use the mechanics of upgrades and flotillas to give it an effective command of 1. Or combines upgrades and flotillas to effectively give their entire task force infinite shields?

Just because you or I (or the play testers) don't see something unbalancing the entire game doesn't mean there isn't someone else out there that can find something that does.

Banned cards is one thing. But in this game, where the mechanics are not just cards but can tie to actual models we face the potential of a banned ship. Taking away one or two cards from a deck of 40 and release of several hundred is irksome. Taking away a ship I paid $20.00 for is game breaking.

Banning a ship would indeed be terrible. But that is also (in my opinion) completely unrealistic.

• Armada has relatively few ships and combos. (Much less than other established games). The chance for unforeseen broken combos are extremely minimal for Armada at this point in it's life cycle.
• Even if a broken combo DID show up, it would likely be fixed due to an FAQ or Errata that enforces the Rules as Intended (RAI). (Tactician in X-Wing for example, was errata'd to be limited to one per ship.)
• Absolute worst-case scenario - a PRINTED STAT on a card has to be errata'd which effectively requires a new card. This is extremely rare for FFG. It happened with Imperial Assault because the skirmish game revolved around like 3 or 4 units exclusively. This is the worst kind of errata because now someone who does say... 4 damage, now does only 2 - and people who don't research their game on the internet are going to have a significantly different gameplay experience than those how use the erratta'd version. But even in this case, the product was still usable (and more balanced).

I only list these scenarios because Armada isn't even in the same ballpark as Magic the Gathering in terms of scope and size. While there certainly is playtesting that goes into products for this game, it's certainly not so much that it justifies 9 - 12 months in between expansions. (Assuming the final release dates for Wave 3 end up supporting that).

And if Armada does end up having a banned ship someday, some might actually consider that a good problem to have, because that would mean we have such a wealth of ships to choose from, and that the game has thrived to get us to that point.

no sane company in the history of companies ever thought "gee, we have a popular product that ranks in the top 5 in its category, I know, lets release as little as possible because F*** money"

In the US at least, shareholders can sue a company if they think the company isn't working towards enough profit. (There's eight bazillion footnotes and legal loopholes, but that's the gist of it)

no sane company in the history of companies ever thought "gee, we have a popular product that ranks in the top 5 in its category, I know, lets release as little as possible because F*** money"

In the US at least, shareholders can sue a company if they think the company isn't working towards enough profit. (There's eight bazillion footnotes and legal loopholes, but that's the gist of it)

Has FFG said something related to them not being able to get things printed?

FFG went out of their way at GAMA to show to the (mostly X-Wing Retailer) Crowd that they had solved the stock and production issues of the past, and got a general agreement applause that indeed it had shown.

Interesting.

So part of me thinks that this would be justification for having a larger wave. If Wave 3 truly is this small (no hidden surprises), it's likely not due to production at all. Otherwise why claim to have solved existing production issues?

Because the Wave 3 Flotilla wave actually has a potentially massive effect on gameplay, and they are willing to wait and see how that goes before announcing more? Taking their time and making sure Rules and Upgrades issues are done and dusted beforehand?

Y'know.

Being careful and giving us an awesome game?

Part of fixing a production backlog would be to cut back on new stuff and focusing on catching up on existing products, while looking for more production capacity. I'm not saying flotillas aren't going to radically change the game. If I was in charge of development and got told I was limited on what I can release, then flotillas would be a perfect fit. They have standard ship bases, all you need to make is tiny little ships and the cards. This isn't complaining, I'm looking forward to flotillas and finding ways for me to use them. Short of getting a job at Fantasy Flight I don't think we'll ever know all the details,and probably not then. I was just sick of people bitching and moaning, so now I have something else to read.

Part of fixing a production backlog would be to cut back on new stuff and focusing on catching up on existing products, while looking for more production capacity. I'm not saying flotillas aren't going to radically change the game. If I was in charge of development and got told I was limited on what I can release, then flotillas would be a perfect fit. They have standard ship bases, all you need to make is tiny little ships and the cards.

In terms of the models, they may simply adjust the molds that they are using for Rebellion, as that game does use the GR-75 and the Gozanti carrier.

However, I do hope that they will be up to Armada quality, because those ships in Rebellion are wanting in that respect.

For many of us who don't have multiple ISDs and MC80s, a Wave 4 of flotillas will help us save up for more big shapes while keeping us busy with something new and shiny.

I'm with kite on this one. I'm not going to wade in on the question of profit or production, since I don't have the expertise. Besides, we'll never really know.

But I will say that, as a player with relatively limited funds, having a wave that is small and affordable means that I can focus for now on building up my collection of ships from waves 1 and 2. I like flotillas, because they're substantial enough to offer some exciting new prospects to gameplay, whilst also not flooding the game with new expensive ships. I can't buy new ships particularly often. A new, extensive and costly wave would mean me playing catch up with other guys in my local area for longer.

I came to Armada without having played X-wing. I look at X-wing and would love to get into it, but the staggering variety of ships and the number of established players is off-putting - I don't have the money to go out and spend a couple of hundred quid putting together a decent set. With Armada, a novice can enter into the game and not be confronted by forty-odd expansions, but can still just buy one or two expansions and not feel out-classed for choice in his local games.

The barrier to flying a decent fleet isn't ridiculous in Armada. But there's a difference between being able to fly a fleet and being able to fly one that's firstly competitive, and secondly that is balanced to suit your style. Taking it slow in terms of release may not be to everyone's preference, and may indeed not be to Fantasy Flight's advantage, but it means that new players aren't put off from joining due to bewildering variety, and players of lesser means can continue to gradually build up their fleet.

Part of fixing a production backlog would be to cut back on new stuff and focusing on catching up on existing products, while looking for more production capacity. I'm not saying flotillas aren't going to radically change the game. If I was in charge of development and got told I was limited on what I can release, then flotillas would be a perfect fit. They have standard ship bases, all you need to make is tiny little ships and the cards.

In terms of the models, they may simply adjust the molds that they are using for Rebellion, as that game does use the GR-75 and the Gozanti carrier.

However, I do hope that they will be up to Armada quality, because those ships in Rebellion are wanting in that respect.

Generally Speaking...

Hard Plastic Models = Stainless Steel Molds on Sprue.

There is no "Adjusting" the molds. They're new and separate molds for separate casts, one way or another.... Even if it is just a single massive sprue of Gozanti - its going to have to be a separate (and expensive) mold.

The same 3D Model might have been used each time (which would make sense) - but simply having it larger will enhance the ingrained detail...

So here's hoping.