I want to run Echo for an upcoming SC, but I don't have much experience with her or Phantoms in general. I also want to stay within my current comfort level with the other ships I run with her. I run mostly a mixed Imp squad, usually Vader, Turr, Mauler, DC and sometimes the Bomber. I am going to pick up a TIE expac to add to my fleet because I think Howlrunner will help out a lot. Anyways, enough preamble.

First Impression:

Echo + VI + RecSpec + FCS + ACD = 40

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + SD = 23

Mauler Mithel + Adaptability (+) = 17

Winged Gundark + SD = 18

Total: 98 points

So I'm thinking this list might just be okay. I like the PS trick so a init bid is necessary, maybe even more I think. I think the idea is obvious, the TIE's all fly together and Echo arc-dodges. I think the list is probably easy once Echo goes down though. Ideas?

What are some good builds that feature Echo? I might also be talked into going with Whisper but this list with the PS 8 wave seemed really neat and Echo has such possibility for movement it's incredible. I think she could take the local meta by storm if flown well.

Anyways, tips? Ideas?

Echo is the hardest Phantom to use effectively. If you don't have any experience with phantoms, I strongly suggest starting with a different one. If you want a named phantom, then go with Whisper. Not only is she easier to use, but marginally more effective due to the slightly higher PS.

Whisper w/ VI, FCS & ACD = 39

That is the core of any Whisper build (for the most part). Crew is somewhat flexible, but the following are the strongest choices for whisper: intel agent, Kallus, rebel captive or gunner.

Action choice is important for Phantoms, so its good to remember this 'rule-of-thumb': barrel roll to avoid arcs or get a shot; otherwise evade when in doubt; and only take focus when you are confident Whisper is unlikely to take damage.

When you have flown Whisper for a while and you feel confident in your abilities to decloak (thinking a turn in advance is helpful), then making the switch to Echo will be a little easier...

Echo is the hardest Phantom to use effectively. If you don't have any experience with phantoms, I strongly suggest starting with a different one. If you want a named phantom, then go with Whisper. Not only is she easier to use, but marginally more effective due to the slightly higher PS.

Whisper w/ VI, FCS & ACD = 39

That is the core of any Whisper build (for the most part). Crew is somewhat flexible, but the following are the strongest choices for whisper: intel agent, Kallus, rebel captive or gunner.

Action choice is important for Phantoms, so its good to remember this 'rule-of-thumb': barrel roll to avoid arcs or get a shot; otherwise evade when in doubt; and only take focus when you are confident Whisper is unlikely to take damage.

When you have flown Whisper for a while and you feel confident in your abilities to decloak (thinking a turn in advance is helpful), then making the switch to Echo will be a little easier...

I will second that.

I disagree that gunner belongs on a Phantom w/ FCS. You're typically going to be rolling 4-5 attack dice w/ a target lock. Chances of a complete whiff are pretty unlikely, or at least unlikely enough that you'll never gain full advantage of the 5 points. Kallus and RC are strong crew additions, however, and far more cost effective.

I disagree that gunner belongs on a Phantom w/ FCS. You're typically going to be rolling 4-5 attack dice w/ a target lock. Chances of a complete whiff are pretty unlikely, or at least unlikely enough that you'll never gain full advantage of the 5 points. Kallus and RC are strong crew additions, however, and far more cost effective.

Kallus and Rebel Captive ARE strong choices. But so is Gunner (although I think it works best on Whisper due to her free focus ability). First of all, FCS only kicks in after you shoot. So having Gunner means, you don't really care. You can switch targets with impunity (normally that's a real drawback of having FCS). It is also incredibly strong against high agility targets. 3 agility ships (or even 4 w/ stealth) are annoying because of their token stacks, but FCS + Gunner cuts right through them on a regular basis (without Gunner, it really does take longer to kill such targets).

Even against low agility ships, you will occasionally whiff your attack roll (and when you do, you are happy whereas without gunner, you curse your dice in frustration). So if you want to kill high PS aces, gunner is the best choice, really. It also reinforces the phantom's preferred action choice (take evade if getting shot at), allowing Whisper to not only consistently deal damage against anything in the game, but guaranteeing that she is always sitting on a focus + evade token every single time she shoots. And that is a considerable advantage (especially against twin laser turrets and contracted scouts with ordnance).

So, if you have 44 points to spare, you should strongly consider buzzsaw Whisper (and the current meta shift that is favouring high PS aces reinforces this as an effective counter). If you don't have the points (due to other things you want to include in your list) its fine----as mentioned, rebel captive, kallus or even intel agent are good too (not quite as good) but have the virtue of being cheaper.

I flew this list at our SC, and did pretty well, I came 8/23. I'm still quite a newbie on X-wing, only played for some months...

Fly HR, OL and Wampa in formation and Whisper alone trying to flank your opponent.

Whisper and friends (99)
"Whisper" — TIE Phantom 32
Veteran Instincts 1
Fire-Control System 2
Agent Kallus 2
Advanced Cloaking Device 4
Ship Total: 41

"Wampa" — TIE Fighter 14
Ship Total: 14

"Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter 21
Juke 2
Comm Relay 3
Ship Total: 26

"Howlrunner" — TIE Fighter 18
Ship Total: 18

Well I just got done flying an Imp list.

Whisper @ 40 points

Turr Phennir & Vader for pals.

2 turns. Pop. Pop. Pop. Game over.

So how are you supposed to fly these one hit wonders again? Positioning is great and all but if the first three turrets to look at you just delete your ships then what?

Edit: But seriously, how do people play Imps? I really want to know because I want to fly them but it feels like every time I do they just get shot down by the first thing that aims at them. It's a very silly experience. Also, I don't really want to drop cash for the Emperor. I'm trying to build a list for a store champ at the end of the month so I can't really afford to throw money at the problem. Nor can I wait and fly something I don't have practice with, at best I think I could procure a Lambda and get some flying time in with that but... I'm afraid my Aces will just melt without the Palp and I'll be left with a shuttle I can't turn around.

Help me figure out a list please so I don't feel like a complete idiot when I fly Imps.

I use phantoms for hit and run with the aim to get in via a odd angle. you have to fly him cagey till you can work out which way their forces are flying and then manoeuvre into position for the kill.

Phantoms are about special awareness and thinking at least 2 turns ahead.

This is a pretty strong build that I use to run. I would imagine it would do pretty well if flown with good anticipation.

Well I just got done flying an Imp list.

Whisper @ 40 points

Turr Phennir & Vader for pals.

2 turns. Pop. Pop. Pop. Game over.

So how are you supposed to fly these one hit wonders again? Positioning is great and all but if the first three turrets to look at you just delete your ships then what?

Edit: But seriously, how do people play Imps? I really want to know because I want to fly them but it feels like every time I do they just get shot down by the first thing that aims at them. It's a very silly experience. Also, I don't really want to drop cash for the Emperor. I'm trying to build a list for a store champ at the end of the month so I can't really afford to throw money at the problem. Nor can I wait and fly something I don't have practice with, at best I think I could procure a Lambda and get some flying time in with that but... I'm afraid my Aces will just melt without the Palp and I'll be left with a shuttle I can't turn around.

Help me figure out a list please so I don't feel like a complete idiot when I fly Imps.

I know the feeling, I experienced the exact same thing when I started playing. My problem was that I thought it was better for me to be able to shoot at the opponent and at the same time allowing them to shoot at me, and jousting against rebels with loads of shields is not a very viable option.

Since then I've learned the hard way that it's better to move and none will be able to shoot to come back for another fly by and since Empire ships is far more agile one should be to reposition for a shot at them without worrying about them shooting back. It's better to arc dodge than getting that focus/evade token.

This is a very helpful guide to movement too, knowing where your ship will be is essential:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/110115-earning-your-wings-a-guide-for-understanding-movment/

To get better at flying arc-dodgers, the first step is memorizing the maneuver templates. Lay them out in front of you, and burn those shapes into your mind! Use whatever darkside power you have at your command to ingrain the banks, turns, straights (and R3 ruler template!) into your skull! This not only to get better at positioning your own ships, but to precisely predict where your opponent ships will end up. And don't be afraid to bust those templates out on a regular basis (that's what I sometimes do when I go to a tourney while sitting around waiting for next pairings)

Next step is to think one turn ahead as you play. For example: my soontir is approaching on the flank. A 2 bank brings me in range to shoot, but if the enemy blob does hard 2 turns, they will all have shots. But! There's a rock blocking their k-turn, so I want them to do that. A 5 straight with Soontir is the smart play though to avoid firing arcs and deny the opponent the ability to k-turn (cuz of the rock). The rest of my ships are out of range (to encourage the rebel scum to chase Soontir), but after their hard turn, they will have moved in for some excellent un-returned fire...

That is the sort of thinking that has to go through your head every single turn as you play imps! And that is one example of 'out-positioning' your opponent (setting up favourable exchanges of fire).

Well I just got done flying an Imp list.

Whisper @ 40 points

Turr Phennir & Vader for pals.

2 turns. Pop. Pop. Pop. Game over.

So how are you supposed to fly these one hit wonders again? Positioning is great and all but if the first three turrets to look at you just delete your ships then what?

Edit: But seriously, how do people play Imps? I really want to know because I want to fly them but it feels like every time I do they just get shot down by the first thing that aims at them. It's a very silly experience. Also, I don't really want to drop cash for the Emperor. I'm trying to build a list for a store champ at the end of the month so I can't really afford to throw money at the problem. Nor can I wait and fly something I don't have practice with, at best I think I could procure a Lambda and get some flying time in with that but... I'm afraid my Aces will just melt without the Palp and I'll be left with a shuttle I can't turn around.

Help me figure out a list please so I don't feel like a complete idiot when I fly Imps.

A full 40 point build on Whisper doesn't leave enough points to build Vader or Turr properly regardless of how you fly them. Going to have drop down to Echo, or drop Vader for the Inquisitor, something, gotta shave some points to get 3 ships built closer to optimum.

Well here are a few ideas I had... This is all good advice by the way, especially the part about memorizing the templates. I play a little game where I take two bases and try to guess where one will end up corresponding to the other, but admittedly I got good at it and then haven't played it much since. I should do that again as it is muscle memory after all. Brain muscle that is!

Anyways, saw a Whisper build I liked with her at 44 points with FCS and Gunner. So here are some ideas.

Whisper @ 44 w/ VI, ACD, FCS, Gunner

Black Squadron x2 @ 20 each w/ PTL, Stealth

Scimitar Bomber 16

total 100

I kinda like this one because the Blacks can PTL at the right time to really make use of that SD.

Whisper @ 44

Soontir @ 32 w/ PTL, AT

Academy x2 A 12 each

total 100

Force that hard init choice. But what if I get to pick?

Whisper 44

Howlrunner @ 23 w/ ST, HU

Mauler @ 17 w/ Adapt

WInged Gun @ 15

total 99

This one I really like because of the PS shenanigans and the synergy between the three TIE pilots.

Thoughts?

Try this.

TIE Interceptor: · Turr Phennir (25)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Autothrusters (2)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Targeting Computer (2)

TIE Interceptor: · Soontir Fel (27)

Push The Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Targeting Computer (2)

TIE Phantom: · "Echo" (30)

· Lone Wolf (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

You can always make a case for a SD on Fel, so drop the TC on Fel and pay for it by changing VI on Turr to adaptability.

Or for something different, the fully loaded but generic Phantom.

TIE Interceptor: · Soontir Fel (27)

Push The Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Stealth Device (3)

TIE Avanced Prototype: · The Inquisitor (25)

Push The Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/v1 (1)

TIE Phantom: Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Recon Specialist (3)

Well here are a few ideas I had... This is all good advice by the way, especially the part about memorizing the templates. I play a little game where I take two bases and try to guess where one will end up corresponding to the other, but admittedly I got good at it and then haven't played it much since. I should do that again as it is muscle memory after all. Brain muscle that is!

Anyways, saw a Whisper build I liked with her at 44 points with FCS and Gunner. So here are some ideas.

Whisper @ 44 w/ VI, ACD, FCS, Gunner

Black Squadron x2 @ 20 each w/ PTL, Stealth

Scimitar Bomber 16

total 100

I kinda like this one because the Blacks can PTL at the right time to really make use of that SD.

Whisper @ 44

Soontir @ 32 w/ PTL, AT

Academy x2 A 12 each

total 100

Force that hard init choice. But what if I get to pick?

Whisper 44

Howlrunner @ 23 w/ ST, HU

Mauler @ 17 w/ Adapt

WInged Gun @ 15

total 99

This one I really like because of the PS shenanigans and the synergy between the three TIE pilots.

Thoughts?

Of the 3, I like the 2nd list best. A couple things though. Academy Pilots are great blockers, but some times they struggle to be of use (especially when you have only 2 of them). 'Alpha Strike' lists (such as crackshot IG88s or Torpedo Scouts) erase them quick, but on the other hand, if your opponent is shooting them up first, it lets your aces get into decent position. So my word of warning is, don't fly them too aggressively against these types of lists.

I think instead of Mauler and Winged Gundark, you'd be better off running Howlrunner w/ swarm tactics + 3 academies (or howlie + 2 obsidians + 1 academy). 4 TIES are better than 3.

Or for something different, the fully loaded but generic Phantom.

TIE Interceptor: · Soontir Fel (27)

Push The Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Stealth Device (3)

TIE Avanced Prototype: · The Inquisitor (25)

Push The Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/v1 (1)

TIE Phantom: Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Recon Specialist (3)

That list would work better with Jax instead of Fel and Rebel Captive on the Sigma instead of Recon Spec (captive works really well with sensor jammer)

Well I just got done flying an Imp list.

Whisper @ 40 points

Turr Phennir & Vader for pals.

2 turns. Pop. Pop. Pop. Game over.

So how are you supposed to fly these one hit wonders again? Positioning is great and all but if the first three turrets to look at you just delete your ships then what?

Edit: But seriously, how do people play Imps? I really want to know because I want to fly them but it feels like every time I do they just get shot down by the first thing that aims at them. It's a very silly experience. Also, I don't really want to drop cash for the Emperor. I'm trying to build a list for a store champ at the end of the month so I can't really afford to throw money at the problem. Nor can I wait and fly something I don't have practice with, at best I think I could procure a Lambda and get some flying time in with that but... I'm afraid my Aces will just melt without the Palp and I'll be left with a shuttle I can't turn around.

Help me figure out a list please so I don't feel like a complete idiot when I fly Imps.

I have yet to fly a Phantom, but perhaps fly Whisper and Soontir and a DoomShuttle (add baffle if you got it, you can leave it parked for a round or two instead of trying to turn the bastard). Nobody can ignore the DoomShuttle cause its just auto crits. That will draw attention away from Aces while they get into position. If you screw up flying, Soontir is more forgiving cause you can always turtle up. I fly a DoomShuttle in many of my imp builds because I dont have Palp. It does nasty damage and totally worth the 24pts.

Good luck!

I have yet to fly a Phantom, but perhaps fly Whisper and Soontir and a DoomShuttle (add baffle if you got it, you can leave it parked for a round or two instead of trying to turn the bastard). Nobody can ignore the DoomShuttle cause its just auto crits. That will draw attention away from Aces while they get into position. If you screw up flying, Soontir is more forgiving cause you can always turtle up. I fly a DoomShuttle in many of my imp builds because I dont have Palp. It does nasty damage and totally worth the 24pts.

Good luck!

Soontir forgiving??? He's one of the LEAST forgiving ships in the game. Screw up with him and he goes poof quick (because screwing up with Soontir means getting blocked or landing on a rock or something equally devastating).