I'd say even x-wing is slowly becoming over saturated with models, players and I see new new people join the game and leave it just as quick.

With Armada the price point appears still to be an issue with players picking it up. £65 is quite a lot (discounted) compared to £28 for x-wing. Then also the length of game which in my opinion can be just as long as an x-wing match just people perceive is longer !.

Armada has 12 models compared to x-wings 35+ including epics and three factions it's going to take time to catch up or bot even need that many. How many x-wing models require fixes as they worthless ? Maybe they want to get it right ?.

The one think your correct about is tournament wise there isn't the numbers like in x-wing.

Solution ? Maybe make a better starter box to get people into the game? And make the profits on the expansions ?

That could be what the 2 missing SKU's could be. A rebel starter and an Imperial starter. It would be a pretty big break from FFG's current style but it would sell Armada far more effectively.

One can hope :-) doubtful. Armada really should be at a price point of £50 to get people into the game but also the expansions. Retailers cannot discount to that price as we buy it from the distributor for £45.

1. I don't think Armada will die.

Even if the whole world stops playing, Armada will live on in my basement.

Could you have made this sound more sinister?

Just a thought......FFG have a fair number of games, each of which needs new expansions, and a ton of prize support each year. Just maybe they can't produce the number of new products you are asking for for one specific game. X wing is a bit different as its their cash cow which they need to milk.

We are getting a ton of prize support and new ships this year, that's fine by me.

One of the reasons my main game is armada and x wing plays second fiddle is that I got hacked off by the number of waves and new models you must have to stay competitive.

My group and I are still fully satisfied with Wave 2, it still feels like a complete game, one of the more balanced and well designed games I've had the pleasure of playing. This is just wild speculation and it's probably been said already, but flotillas are going to change the way the game is played a lot more than what people are expecting. The only thing hurting Armada right now are baseless rumors that claim the game is already dead.

"FFG have a fair number of games, each of which needs new expansions,"

NO I'm sorry games do NOT NEED expansions, or prize support. only some players need these things to feed their rush

for getting more and more new things " greed " "give me give me give me" " mine mine mine" "Ohh shiny" These games that just keep adding more and more stuff to them do stop getting new players. because the cost of getting the game goes up with each new thing added. because lets face it, you need it all or most of it to be able to win Vs someone who has it all. At that point it stops growing and getting new players. Then new stuff stops coming out because sales have dropped. The give me crew stops playing, Then it stops being made. But the players that just enjoy playing will keep playing the game for years and years. seen it happen over and over with game after game.

Well it's dead in Orlando it seems. Used to play every weekend. And for the record we have like 8+ game stores that have people playing games every week. X-Wing is played nonstop. But people are selling their Armada stuff left and right. Armada tournaments are non-existent anymore. The last one had 3 people show up. And it was the only tournament in months.... but only 3 people showed up.

It's doing quite well in San Antonio... And one of our biggest community organizers is about to move out to Orlando in a couple of months.

Take heart: reinforcements are coming!

If the scene is "dead" or non-existent, make a scene. Work with your LGS's, find out what the issue was and find a way to fix it.

The issue is quite simple. FFG needs to make more stuff. The way to fix it, is to make more stuff. However I'm not quitting my job and going to work for FFG in hopes I'll someday get promoted to be the guy who makes more stuff. I don't know why they don't want to just take my money. I'd easily spend 500 bucks a year or more on this game. FFG seems to only want 40.

Your issue is that you are not considering a possible explanation. It is pretty simple as well. The possible answer is Logistics.

FFG is having issues supplying models to stores. A possibly low model wave gives them time to stock and build what they need. The ISD after all is a Ghost worth of plastic.

Why would you say that FFG is having issues getting models to stores? What specific problems are you citing? Because none of the stores around here are seeing anything like that. FFG products are everywhere, especially the newest X-Wing wave 8 stuff.

What issues am I citing? Let's go with 2015 where they couldn't keep things in stock. I could be foolish but I am sure that anyone who remembers when wave 1 came out the issues stores had keeping the squadron packs on the shelves and could not even get a restock from FFG.

Then there is the X-Wing ships that stores couldn't order, Netrunner, and many other games that took for ever to reprint

I remember when Wave 1 came out, and stores around me had sufficient supply of squadron packs. The Imperial Squadron packs were somewhat lower in stock, due to the rhymerball builds, but they were on shelves around here. The only "things" that weren't in stock in 2015 to my recollection, were older expansions that came back in demand while waiting for a reprint. X-Wing's wave 6, for example. Several new X-Wing players were anxious to finally get a Most Wanted pack. Not sure if that's what you are referring to though, because the circumstances of an old product suddenly rising in demand and requiring a reprint, are different than a new product. Granted they still have to PRINT them, but you can more easily predict that a new product will be in demand, rather than an old product.

But I feel like this particular line of discussion is drifting too much. My dispute is with your remark about FFG having a hard time getting product on store shelves. The number of wave 8 X-Wing stuff seems to disprove that... even the Punishing One expansion, which people seem to be buying in much higher numbers. But that's my point of view. Maybe things are different in your area.

Hey Crabbok I just landed in Orlando for vacation, can you point me to these people selling their stuff?

I just reconnected with a buddy of mine and turns out he runs a gaming club in my city. Apparently he is putting on a little convention soon and he says the interest in Armada is huge. I will be demoing and teaching armada to dozens of keenly interested gaming nerds for an entire day, I might have some room in my luggage to be able to bring back and sell some to them at cost to kick start the Armada community.

Armada ain't dead everywhere buddy, yeah FFG put it on the back burner, there is NO denying it no matter what the Self-delusional want to tell themselves. FFG de-invested from Armada for this cycle. Period. But that doesn't mean I did or will anytime soon.

Sure man, check out the facebook group for Orlando Armada, X-Wing and Imperial Assault. There's folks in there looking to unload Armada.

I must have found the wrong one. Went all the way back to march 1 did not see any armada for sale

Looks like you missed it by one day. Two of the guys I know selling had posted in February. If you are interested PM me and I'll try and connect you to them.

If the scene is "dead" or non-existent, make a scene. Work with your LGS's, find out what the issue was and find a way to fix it.

The issue is quite simple. FFG needs to make more stuff. The way to fix it, is to make more stuff. However I'm not quitting my job and going to work for FFG in hopes I'll someday get promoted to be the guy who makes more stuff. I don't know why they don't want to just take my money. I'd easily spend 500 bucks a year or more on this game. FFG seems to only want 40.

Your issue is that you are not considering a possible explanation. It is pretty simple as well. The possible answer is Logistics.

FFG is having issues supplying models to stores. A possibly low model wave gives them time to stock and build what they need. The ISD after all is a Ghost worth of plastic.

Why would you say that FFG is having issues getting models to stores? What specific problems are you citing? Because none of the stores around here are seeing anything like that. FFG products are everywhere, especially the newest X-Wing wave 8 stuff.

What issues am I citing? Let's go with 2015 where they couldn't keep things in stock. I could be foolish but I am sure that anyone who remembers when wave 1 came out the issues stores had keeping the squadron packs on the shelves and could not even get a restock from FFG.

Then there is the X-Wing ships that stores couldn't order, Netrunner, and many other games that took for ever to reprint

I remember when Wave 1 came out, and stores around me had sufficient supply of squadron packs. The Imperial Squadron packs were somewhat lower in stock, due to the rhymerball builds, but they were on shelves around here. The only "things" that weren't in stock in 2015 to my recollection, were older expansions that came back in demand while waiting for a reprint. X-Wing's wave 6, for example. Several new X-Wing players were anxious to finally get a Most Wanted pack. Not sure if that's what you are referring to though, because the circumstances of an old product suddenly rising in demand and requiring a reprint, are different than a new product. Granted they still have to PRINT them, but you can more easily predict that a new product will be in demand, rather than an old product.

But I feel like this particular line of discussion is drifting too much. My dispute is with your remark about FFG having a hard time getting product on store shelves. The number of wave 8 X-Wing stuff seems to disprove that... even the Punishing One expansion, which people seem to be buying in much higher numbers. But that's my point of view. Maybe things are different in your area.

Hey Crabbok I just landed in Orlando for vacation, can you point me to these people selling their stuff?

I just reconnected with a buddy of mine and turns out he runs a gaming club in my city. Apparently he is putting on a little convention soon and he says the interest in Armada is huge. I will be demoing and teaching armada to dozens of keenly interested gaming nerds for an entire day, I might have some room in my luggage to be able to bring back and sell some to them at cost to kick start the Armada community.

Armada ain't dead everywhere buddy, yeah FFG put it on the back burner, there is NO denying it no matter what the Self-delusional want to tell themselves. FFG de-invested from Armada for this cycle. Period. But that doesn't mean I did or will anytime soon.

Sure man, check out the facebook group for Orlando Armada, X-Wing and Imperial Assault. There's folks in there looking to unload Armada.

I must have found the wrong one. Went all the way back to march 1 did not see any armada for sale

Looks like you missed it by one day. Two of the guys I know selling had posted in February. If you are interested PM me and I'll try and connect you to them.

I am done arguing with you on this. Multiple people have shown you that you are wrong but you keep in on your path. You don't seem willing to change anything, just complain about it. You want success but not willing to work for it.

You state people are selling their kits constantly but now it seems that it was over a month ago.

Yea. I am done arguing with you.

No announcement, no missing half of wave 3.... no hope?

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn this again

We already have a term for this kind of post. You're late to the party, bro.

Armada dying might be a good thing. They brought all the ships we need and then some. The next stage could only go the way X-Wing went: eclipsing the iconic ships with "Extended Universe" crap.

Armada dying might be a good thing. They brought all the ships we need and then some. The next stage could only go the way X-Wing went: eclipsing the iconic ships with "Extended Universe" crap.

Naw theres still plenty of water left in the well.

Armada dying might be a good thing. They brought all the ships we need and then some. The next stage could only go the way X-Wing went: eclipsing the iconic ships with "Extended Universe" crap.

Naw theres still plenty of water left in the well.

There's like, three ships I can think of. The winged mon-cal, the interdictor, and the arquitens. And the Finalizer I guess. I don't know if I'd call that 'plenty of water'.

Everything that appears in Rebels will be Iconic for the new generation that are watching, and embracing, right now...

Here's an idea! Play the game if you like it, sit down and be quiet if you don't. Sell your collection to fund your other hobbies and leave those of us who enjoy Armada in peace. Continuing to spread this rumor does nothing but harm to a perfectly good game and community. I will continue to thoroughly enjoy Armada despite any belly aching on the Internet.

Just had a club full of games today.

*makes a pointed appearance in this thread. points casually to Mel's work, too* I don't feel like I need to say anything...

Agreed.

I am done arguing

Thank you.

Armada dying might be a good thing. They brought all the ships we need and then some. The next stage could only go the way X-Wing went: eclipsing the iconic ships with "Extended Universe" crap.

Naw theres still plenty of water left in the well.

There's like, three ships I can think of. The winged mon-cal, the interdictor, and the arquitens. And the Finalizer I guess. I don't know if I'd call that 'plenty of water'.

There's also the Pelta and the Hammerhead ships from Rebels... and that new carrier.

What Armada really needs is to have about 9-10 different ship types per side before slowing down. (in my opinion). One of X-Wings greatest strengths is the great variety of builds you can come up with. I started during wave 3 and have never flown the same list twice (outside of tournaments where you HAVE to fly the same list all day). I spend more time designing squads than actually playing the game. THAT is what I love about these types of games... spending a whole week building lists, scrapping them, building new lists.... refining them... saving a few... and finally trying them out.

Feels like with Armada there are basically 3 different builds for each side. Yeah I know there's technically lots more, but at a certain point all the little variations tend to blend into each other and there's just so little variety when I compare it to FFG's other miniatures games like X-Wing or Imperial Assault. I'd love to be able to spend an hour or two figuring out what I want to fly... but when I pull up my squad builder it's like "Ok I'm flying an ISD, a Gladiator with demolisher right away.... then I have to decide if I want to do a Vic or not. from that point I have like 2 more decisions to make and my list is basically done. Very similar flowchart for the rebels too. Starts with "Ackbar... yes or no?". And "Squadron heavy? Yes or no". The rest builds itself pretty much.

I want 10 ships for each side. THEN maybe I could see slowing down to 2-ship waves.

And hey, I get it, some of you are super super happy with having only 4 options for Imperial Ships.... but I expected more by now.

For me personally the game has already peaked model wise (except a SSD but that's unlikely to happen). The movies are everything Star Wars to me and I just cant get excited about the Pelta class or whatever. But I realize that others might be coming from a totally different perspective and that's fine. I think the game is doing fine and if X-wing is any indication people will buy the EU stuff.

Armada dying might be a good thing. They brought all the ships we need and then some. The next stage could only go the way X-Wing went: eclipsing the iconic ships with "Extended Universe" crap.

I'll agree that most of the "iconic" ships, for the older generations, are done. But so what? Look back to Battletech. There was the "unseen 20" (I think that's what they called them) that were the first and largely only Battlemechs that didn't look like garbage for about a decade. They were the core image of the game, the mainstay of its artwork, and overnight they vanished from every literally every aspect of the game -- and the game went on just fine, because it had scores of other mech designs out by that point. Largely aesthetic crap. I knew a player who used to say that until the Clans, they basically made 2 good designs per source book.

This game started 32 years ago and is still out there. And heaven knows they've had a bumpy, bumpy history, with a fraction of the pop culture presence that Armada has. Let's put the knee-jerk reactions on hold and just calm down. For crying out loud, if Star Wars could survive the Christmas Special, I don't see Armada going away any time soon.

And on a personal note, when is a good thing ending ever a good thing? Who thinks this? Do these people get up in the morning and think "Gosh, I have a wonderful life. I love my job, I love my family, I love my home...maybe if I get fired and my house burns down, my life would be better off?"

By no means am I saying don't express your concerns about the game. But honestly? If you do, you might want to brace yourself to be seen as trolls. Even if time should someday prove you right.

--edit--

Almost forgot. If the EU stuff is "eclipsing" the old stuff, isn't that a sign that it's actually being well received? Perhaps even preferred? Things change. Passing the torch to the new generation and all that.

Everything that appears in Rebels will be Iconic for the new generation that are watching, and embracing, right now...

Sure, so that's the Gozanti, the Arquitens and the Interdictor? I guess you could make a case for the hammerhead cruisers, but they seem very small, more like transport size than small-ship size.

There's not much left to mine out there.

Almost forgot. If the EU stuff is "eclipsing" the old stuff, isn't that a sign that it's actually being well received? Perhaps even preferred? Things change. Passing the torch to the new generation and all that.

IMO it's a sign that the ships and upgrades are well designed and powerful. I know some people that don't care one iota for Star Wars but love X Wing for the mechanics of it.

Sure, so that's the Gozanti, the Arquitens and the Interdictor? I guess you could make a case for the hammerhead cruisers, but they seem very small, more like transport size than small-ship size.

We're gettinghte Gozanti - so Arquitens, Hammerhead Cruisers (They are small ship cruisers, after all), Interdictor, Quasar Carrier.

And that is only so far if you don't count the Ghost itself as a R&V Squadron type thing.

Wasn't the Gonzo in Episode 1 as well...like taking off in the back behind Qui-Gon Ginny?

I really look forward to the Arquitens...I mean if they put that in there I have a real shot of the Acclimator and the Venator coming in.

IMO it's a sign that the ships and upgrades are well designed and powerful. I know some people that don't care one iota for Star Wars but love X Wing for the mechanics of it.

But...this sort of just supports that the game doesn't need recognizable ships because people are playing it for the sake of the game, not the models. If anything, I'd say this is an even stronger refutation of the game "dying" due to "lack of designs."