So following on from the Vassal tournament where I trialled my previous version of this list (MC80 Defiant with four corvettes), I have adjusted slightly:

MC80 Assault Cruiser - 150pts

Dodonna

Intel Officer

Leading Shots

Defiance

MC30 Torpedo Frigate - 80pts

Ordnance Experts

Assault Proton Torpedos

Foresight

Nebulon B Escort Frigate - 71pts

Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

Salvation

CR90 Corvette A - 53pts

Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

Jainas Light

4x A Wings - 44 pts

Total - 398pts

Advanced Gunnery, Fire Lanes, Superior Positions

Wishlist:

- Rieekan or Ackbar as they synergise a lot better than Dodonna. The aim is to lock down the braces and deal lots of damage, including shield damage.

- H9 Turbolasers on the MC30 to push the damage through

- 2 more A Wings for deployment delays

- 5/6pt bid rather than the 2pt currently. It would be useful to first player the torpedo frigate against the weak bidders.

The most obvious source of points that I can see is dropping Salvation down to a support Neb, without TRC's. That gives you 13 points to play with, at the cost of some consistency in damage output. But if you can get H9's on the Shrimp along with a much bigger bid your overall fleet damage output may be better.

4 A-wings ought to be enough to keep bombers off your back for a few rounds, so losing one blue AA die shouldn't matter too much. If you need the extra squadron command use Jaina's Light.

Problem is that I want all my ships to be viable threats to the enemy to cause them lots of difficult decisions. Removing TRC's from Salvation and I may as well drop it to a TRC90 which I just dont think carries the same threat. The title Jaina means a corvette can shoot through defiance, whereas the vanilla doesnt have this threat.

This looks like a kinda merging between our two tournament fleets, sans Raymus in his Tantive (that is the most surprising thing about this list for me).

Definitely drop Salvation to a Refit, not worth the extra points in this list. Keep Trcs on it, you can unload massive amounts of damage with it + Salvation.

I'm not sure about Foresight on the Torpedo, since it is coming into close range those evades won't be doing much to help its survival, so Admonition might be better (+ Walex would be even better, but you want an initiative bid).

You could drop the Assault down to a command cruiser maybe? Then you have a few more points to work with.

With only 4 A Wings I like to be able to throw double anti aircraft fire on both flanks of my fleet, hence the escort choice. Plus the Nebulon has such shoddy side anti ship fire that it generally makes sense to use the second shot on squadrons. I do take your point though.

There are features of your fleet in here. Do you have a new fleet you are running? Or an evolution?

Atm I'm just kinda running what I fancy, but I have played a few more games with my tournament fleet and have become less and less happy with it, especially the lack of initiative bid.

So, here is 20/20 Vision 2.0

20/20 Vision Mk II
Author: Viperous
Points: 387/400

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points) "Foresight"
- Foresight ( 8 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points) "Insight"
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Walex Blissex ( 5 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette A (44 points) "Outsight"
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette B (39 points) "Hindsight"
- General Rieekan ( 30 points)
- Tantive IV ( 3 points)
- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)
2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)
2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)

Same objectives. Dropped Shortsight and replaced with TRC90 ( ) "Outsight" and I felt that Raymus kinda didn't need an A so I swapped him for a B.

Better fighter support, sans the aces but I don't mind. I needed the extra deployment and the squads in battle. Han and Dash died far too fast for me, although Han was ok, Dash was a bit pathetic in the role I put him in. Yt-2400s are awesome and they are cheaper than aces.

I felt that I needed to include Admonition after basically everyone who saw my list remarked that it was missing it. Walex is on as well to help that upgrade. Ordnance experts on both Mc30s.

Oh and Jaina for Most Wanted.

I look over your wish list and your regular list, and then I sympathize with all of the difficult choices that we have to make. It really easy to want to be able to do everything, and your wishlist in the original post along with your comments in response really make me think you're just having a hard time with all of those choices. One key is to make your list very effective at doing a couple of things, and make sure it matches up well enough against other lists.

I think the real key to improving efficiency can be found in how your MC80/MC30 and commanders interact. The Defiance/MC80 could really use a defensive upgrade, if not two. As it stands, you're going to have to shepherd it a bit, which means you won't be able to use it to its fullest potential. You mention wanting Rieekan or Ackbar, and the place where you're going to find the points is the MC30. Dropping it to an SW-7-B or a TRC-A gives you the points to upgrade the MC80 and upgrade your commander. You can also go in the other direction by downgrading the MC80 into a second MC30 and probably a Corvette, but that loses the "Defiance" theme. Admonition is definitely the superior title in this build. I like Foresight in two places: Scout Variant+Ackbar, where you really are attempting to stay at range-3, and with Mon Mothma where you get huge bonuses out of the Evades.

Atm I'm just kinda running what I fancy, but I have played a few more games with my tournament fleet and have become less and less happy with it, especially the lack of initiative bid.

So, here is 20/20 Vision 2.0

20/20 Vision Mk II

Author: Viperous

Points: 387/400

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points) "Foresight"

- Foresight ( 8 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points) "Insight"

- Admonition ( 8 points)

- Walex Blissex ( 5 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette A (44 points) "Outsight"

- Jainas Light ( 2 points)

- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette B (39 points) "Hindsight"

- General Rieekan ( 30 points)

- Tantive IV ( 3 points)

- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)

2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)

Same objectives. Dropped Shortsight and replaced with TRC90 ( ) "Outsight" and I felt that Raymus kinda didn't need an A so I swapped him for a B.

Better fighter support, sans the aces but I don't mind. I needed the extra deployment and the squads in battle. Han and Dash died far too fast for me, although Han was ok, Dash was a bit pathetic in the role I put him in. Yt-2400s are awesome and they are cheaper than aces.

I felt that I needed to include Admonition after basically everyone who saw my list remarked that it was missing it. Walex is on as well to help that upgrade. Ordnance experts on both Mc30s.

Oh and Jaina for Most Wanted.

From the way you said you plan to use your M30 APT is wasted. If you're planing to go to short range it's good, I do that with a scout M30 but only if I'm running Mon Mothma

Following comments above. I have decided that I must return to the CR90B cheap activation core of the build with defiance. I had a bad experience of them versus Red Ship Ackbar Dorrin, but am learning how to use them effectively and have actually beaten a 5 TRC ship on vassal with them tonight.

And in taking CR90B's, the torpedo frigate doesnt offer me the alternative threat I was looking for. Salvation does. Salvation is the viable second threat I need to run alongside Defiance to provide an awkward choice for my opponent and allow one turn killing of medium ships if Defiance and Salvation team up. (Demo anyone?)

Additionally, with the escort version you all object two, I have two ships with double blue AA fire and six squadrons to truly win the squadron battle. This will prevent my opponent from sitting at long range whilst chucking a rhymer ball at me. I need them to close the gap to make my CR90B's time easier.

So my new version is below:

MC80 Assault Cruiser - 150pts

Rieekan

Intel Officer

Leading Shots

Defiance

Nebulon B Escort Frigate - 78pts

Intell Officer

Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

Salvation

Corvette CR90 B - 46pts

SW7 Ion Batteries

Jainas Light

Corvette CR90 B - 47pts

SW7 Ion Batteries

Taintive IV

5x A Wings - 55 pts

Tycho - 16pts

Total - 402pts

Advanced Gunnery, Fire Lanes, Superior Positions

There is one glaring issue. 402pts! But I feel this is resolvable now.

Good job! At 402, I think its fairly easy to get to 400 or under. You could drop Tantive IV to go to 399. You could drop Jaina's to go exactly to 400. SW-7-Bs die faster than As, so I don't like to load them up with more points than I have to, so you could drop all of them to go to 397 for just a bit more of a bid.

Good job! At 402, I think its fairly easy to get to 400 or under. You could drop Tantive IV to go to 399. You could drop Jaina's to go exactly to 400. SW-7-Bs die faster than As, so I don't like to load them up with more points than I have to, so you could drop all of them to go to 397 for just a bit more of a bid.

I've found that Taintive IV gives a nav token to Defiance at the crucial moment, whilst Defiance spams engineering and/or CF (opponent depending). But I agree it should be fairly easy to get under 402, there are quite a lot of ways to do it, and just need to playtest to work out the best way.