If the damage is going into hull flip the crit right away. If the damage is going into shields reroll all.

I just want to say thanks to you guys for doing all the calculations. I had wondered this question offhand since seeing the Jumpmaster attack sequence.

If the damage is going into hull flip the crit right away. If the damage is going into shields reroll all.

Iron cast rules of thumbs aren't that helpful. What about situations where there are two-three eyeballs and a blank? Bear in mind that when rerolling, the more dice you reroll, the higher the likelyhood of natural crits and a new eyeball for crits too.

To expand on Tangoraven a bit (decided to calculations after he made the first table):

===== Case of rolling 1Hit, 1Eye, Blank, Blank on initial roll =====

CHOICE: Reroll only blanks

4 hits result (after modifications) 75%

3 hits result (after modifications) 25%

Expected value = 3,75 (excluding crit value)

CHOICE: Reroll Eye and blanks

4 hits result (after modifications) 78%

3 hits result (after modifications) 20%

2 hit result (after modifications) 2%

Expected value = 3,76 (excluding crit value). My result varies here, probably rounding?

Chance of not getting any eyeballs to convert in crits 42,19% (this is important if you need a crit, for example, for Boba. This % is excluding the chance that the die you chose to reroll, rolls into a crit instead of hit, but that chance is 12,5%. And then the question is if you need only 1 crit (which the other dice can also provide) or more, and then this calculation will spiral out of control fast. But bottom line of this extra addendum: if you REALLY need the crit, keep the eye).

===== Case of rolling 1 Eye, Blank, Blank, Blank on initial roll =====

CHOICE: Reroll only blanks

4 hits result (after modifications) 50%

3 hits result (after modifications) 37,5%

2 hit result (after modifications) 12,5%

Expected value = 3,38 (excluding crit value)

CHOICE: Reroll Eye and blanks

4 hits result (after modifications) 59,4%

3 hits result (after modifications) 31,3%

2 hit result (after modifications) 8,98%

1 hit result (after modifications) 0,39%

Expected value = 3,5 (excluding crit value) EDIT: forgot to change this value from my copy paste above. corrected.

Chance of not getting any eyeballs to convert in crits 31,64% (see above, closer when everything else is taken into account (now you have 3 other dice to provide a crit, beside the 1 die which is the debate of the discussion. However the higher number of hits you need in addition to needing a crit, the lower the chance if you reroll the eyeball. What I mean is, if you need a crit and at least 2 hits, the eyeball becomes more important again)

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What 'is better' is dependent on your risk-reward profile, the board state (do you really need to have Boba push a crit through to remove an opponent's deadeye? Does the ship have full shields and are crits thus meaningless) etc.

If shields are gone, it is almost definately better to keep the eye since the crit has a pretty decent chance to give value in the form of 2 damage or a game changing crit, bumping the 'EV' of those scenarios higher.

EDIT: funny how so many posts were made while I was typing this up, haha I guess this is a really interesting topic to discuss (probably since you can learn how to do the maximum potential damage while not having to become better at the game).

It's possible to incorporate crit calculations. For every "hit" rolled, 25% are crits. The natural crit value of scenario 1 (3.75 EV) is 0.25. Natural crits increase when more dice are rerolled, in scenario 2, the crit value is 0.375 (EV of 3.77).

How about the Proton Crit? Naturally for scenario 1, you have a Proton Crit since we left the eyeball untouched. Hence the full EV for reroll 2 blanks stands at 2.5 Hits + 1.25 Crits (total EV 3.75).

As for scenario 2, we can sum up the cumulative probabilities for Proton crits resulting in the full EV for scenario 2 with some rounding at 2.8 Hits + 1 Crit (total EV 3.77).

Thanks for the maths guys, and for those who explained why I was dubious before I got to come back and explain myself! So it looks like whether you re-roll the eye in this specific situation depends on a few things, but there are circumstances where it is better to re-roll (you need to go for the chance at more overall damage) and circumstances where it is better not to re-roll (you need to 100% ensure you get at least one crit).

Nevermind, I'm confused

If the damage is going into hull flip the crit right away. If the damage is going into shields reroll all.

Iron cast rules of thumbs aren't that helpful. What about situations where there are two-three eyeballs and a blank? Bear in mind that when rerolling, the more dice you reroll, the higher the likelyhood of natural crits and a new eyeball for crits too.

Three focus results and a blank is the same decision as one focus and three blanks. The decision is to reroll the focus or not: the other non-hits are getting rerolled. Apart from the first focus all that determines if you reroll or not is if it's a hit/crit or not.

As for whether you reroll that focus or not, if you do you have -

19.5% chance of increasing your damage,

42.7% chance of no change,

15.8% chance of the same damage but reducing a crit to a hit,

7.4% chance of reducing your damage,

- relative to not rerolling.

Instead of Protons Torps we have Plasma Torps, so no eye-flipping shenanigans.

The rest remains the same, Deadeye, Guidance Chips and R4 Aggromech.

Say from a previous round we kept a TL on our target, so we have access to both focus and TL.

Which one would be the better choice to spend for the Torps? Better spend the focus and keep the TL (actually getting a new one if you wish so) or use the TL and have the focus ready?

I assume it's better to keep the TL, but tbh that's just guessing.

Would be cool if you guys could give an answer, thanks a lot!

EDIT 2: I keep misunderstanding this question, you're asking which to use to fire assuming focus and target lock on the desired target.

It's the classic Focus vs TL question. Both improve the chance of a positive result on any given die from 50% to 75%, with Target Lock having a slightly higher crit chance. I'm not sure Guidance Chips makes a difference between the two.

The question then is if you want your focus for defence or your target lock to persist. That depends on the board situation.

Instead of Protons Torps we have Plasma Torps, so no eye-flipping shenanigans.

The rest remains the same, Deadeye, Guidance Chips and R4 Aggromech.

Say from a previous round we kept a TL on our target, so we have access to both focus and TL.

Which one would be the better choice to spend for the Torps? Better spend the focus and keep the TL (actually getting a new one if you wish so) or use the TL and have the focus ready?

I assume it's better to keep the TL, but tbh that's just guessing.

Would be cool if you guys could give an answer, thanks a lot!

EDIT 2: I keep misunderstanding this question, you're asking which to use to fire assuming focus and target lock on the desired target.

It's the classic Focus vs TL question. Both improve the chance of a positive result on any given die from 50% to 75%, with Target Lock having a slightly higher crit chance. I'm not sure Guidance Chips makes a difference between the two.

The question then is if you want your focus for defence or your target lock to persist. That depends on the board situation.

Yeah, I'm having a little trouble understanding this question too.

If you have both a focus and a target lock, and you're attacking with your Plasma Torpedoes, you have the option to spend either or both. The ideal scenario is that you spend both: you spend your TL to reroll blanks, hoping to roll one of them into a crit/hit/focus result, and knowing that you have Chips to modify any remaining blanks.

R4 Agromech means there's no point to "keeping" the target lock: if you spend both tokens on the attack (that is, spend the TL to reroll and then spend the focus token to convert eye results), you finish your attack with a new TL on the same target anyway. It's like having a Fire Control System in that instance--there's no reason to spend the focus without spending the TL.

And if for some reason you know in advance you want to keep your focus token around, then there's not really a decision to be made. You reroll all focus and blank results, and hope you only end up with one blank/focus result (so that you can activate Chips to come out with 4 successes).

Instead of Protons Torps we have Plasma Torps, so no eye-flipping shenanigans.

The rest remains the same, Deadeye, Guidance Chips and R4 Aggromech.

Say from a previous round we kept a TL on our target, so we have access to both focus and TL.

Which one would be the better choice to spend for the Torps? Better spend the focus and keep the TL (actually getting a new one if you wish so) or use the TL and have the focus ready?

I assume it's better to keep the TL, but tbh that's just guessing.

Would be cool if you guys could give an answer, thanks a lot!

EDIT 2: I keep misunderstanding this question, you're asking which to use to fire assuming focus and target lock on the desired target.

It's the classic Focus vs TL question. Both improve the chance of a positive result on any given die from 50% to 75%, with Target Lock having a slightly higher crit chance. I'm not sure Guidance Chips makes a difference between the two.

The question then is if you want your focus for defence or your target lock to persist. That depends on the board situation.

Yeah, I'm having a little trouble understanding this question too.

If you have both a focus and a target lock, and you're attacking with your Plasma Torpedoes, you have the option to spend either or both. The ideal scenario is that you spend both: you spend your TL to reroll blanks, hoping to roll one of them into a crit/hit/focus result, and knowing that you have Chips to modify any remaining blanks.

R4 Agromech means there's no point to "keeping" the target lock: if you spend both tokens on the attack (that is, spend the TL to reroll and then spend the focus token to convert eye results), you finish your attack with a new TL on the same target anyway. It's like having a Fire Control System in that instance--there's no reason to spend the focus without spending the TL.

And if for some reason you know in advance you want to keep your focus token around, then there's not really a decision to be made. You reroll all focus and blank results, and hope you only end up with one blank/focus result (so that you can activate Chips to come out with 4 successes).

I think the questions is this:

Start of combat your Scout has a target lock and focus. Now it is the Scouts turn to fire. He must spend either the target lock or focus (deadeye) to fire the torp. He will only be left with a focus or target lock to modify.

If you have R4 then you spend your lock to fire the plasma. Once you fire, you spend your focus to modify the dice which lets you regain a lock on the defender with R4. If you still have 2 blanks left then you would use the target lock you just gained to reroll both and then modify with guidance chips.

"It's the classic Focus vs TL question."

... yeah it basically is. Been busy coming up with weird situations that I simply forgot about the basics ... feeling kinda dumb right now

Nevermind me

Keep the eye, definitely. That's not an eye, it's a crit.

Re-roll the eye if if one of your re-rolls gave another eye? There is no rule that states that you have re-roll in one go. You just have to do all re-rolls in the same phase.

Re-roll the eye if if one of your re-rolls gave another eye? There is no rule that states that you have re-roll in one go. You just have to do all re-rolls in the same phase.

Keep the eye, definitely. That's not an eye, it's a crit.

Re-roll the eye if if one of your re-rolls gave another eye? There is no rule that states that you have re-roll in one go. You just have to do all re-rolls in the same phase.

There is. You spend your Target Lock to reroll any number of dice. You choose the dice before you reroll them. To reroll one, then decide whether to reroll the next you'd have to be Redline and spend two locks.

If you have an existing TL (from an earlier round) and a focus, use the TL instead of Deadeye to fire your torpedo.

That way, you will be able to use the focus token in order to change multiple focus results, then get another TL for free from R4 to reroll the blanks. If you use the focus to fire the torpedoes, you are left with only one modifier, since spending a TL doesn't net you a free focus.

Keep the eye, definitely. That's not an eye, it's a crit.

Re-roll the eye if if one of your re-rolls gave another eye? There is no rule that states that you have re-roll in one go. You just have to do all re-rolls in the same phase.

There is. You spend your Target Lock to reroll any number of dice. You choose the dice before you reroll them. To reroll one, then decide whether to reroll the next you'd have to be Redline and spend two locks.

That was disputed a few times and I still have not seen a source for that claim that I need to call the number of dice that I re-roll.

While attacking, a ship can spend a target lock that it has on the defender to reroll any number of its attack dice.

And that's it. I can declare that I spend a TL, roll them one after another, and decleare that I am finished with re-rolling.

Though if you have a source that says otherwise, I am happy to hear about it.

Related Question: Ghost Primary/FCS/Ezra and TLT/FCS/Ezra

Basically the same thing without the chips.

Can I get some of those nifty pie charts of 3,4,and,5 die rerolls, without chips, assuming a single focus-to-crit?

And that's it. I can declare that I spend a TL, roll them one after another, and decleare that I am finished with re-rolling.

Though if you have a source that says otherwise, I am happy to hear about it.

I've been digging through the rules and you're right, I can't actually find anywhere that says you can't. I was pretty surprised by this until I realised this is the only situation that actually makes a difference.

I'm fairly sure Rules as Intended you reroll them all (choose then reroll) but the phrasing is sufficiently inconsistent that I can't actually prove that without a ruling from the devs.

And that's it. I can declare that I spend a TL, roll them one after another, and decleare that I am finished with re-rolling.

Though if you have a source that says otherwise, I am happy to hear about it.

I've been digging through the rules and you're right, I can't actually find anywhere that says you can't. I was pretty surprised by this until I realised this is the only situation that actually makes a difference.

I'm fairly sure Rules as Intended you reroll them all (choose then reroll) but the phrasing is sufficiently inconsistent that I can't actually prove that without a ruling from the devs.

That seems like a real grey area, i think you are correct.

Sent out a rules question because with Proton Agroscouts being a thing this is important to clear up.

I'm currently toying around with various uboat lists, and am currently considering removing the Astromechs from a few.

Not sure about the actual numbers, but Proton Torps combined with Guidance Ships should provide quite some damage even without R4 Aggromech I'd guess. On average you'd get 1/8 crits, 3/8 hits, 2/8 focus and 2/8 blanks. The blank could be changed into a hit thanks to GC while the torps themself change the eye into an crit.

So if you would roll average all day long there wouldn't even be a need for the Aggromech reroll (but we all know that dice only know extremes - all or nothing )

Sure, getting only 3 hits/crits in total would definately be more common, but is there that much of a difference between using a R4 Aggromech or not to justify its 2 points?

Would be great if someone here with better math-kung-fu than me could provide an answer. As always much appreciated

Thanks, hope you have a nice weekend