Say what you will about how bad the prequels are (they are horrible and I hate them), but they are better than episode VII. At least George took a chance on something different. Sure, it failed miserably, but at least he tried. "The Farce Awakens" is just a re-hash of something we know and love.

Even if Episode VIII is a good movie, we are going to be forced to compare it to "The Empire Strikes Back" because of what TFA did in being a copy of ANH. It's not a fair comparison, Empire is not just the best Star Wars film, but it's one of the best films of all time. But that is the situation that Disney has put us in. Hopefully Darth Kylo won't take his mask off again...

Say what you will about how bad the prequels are (they are horrible and I hate them), but they are better than episode VII. At least George took a chance on something different. Sure, it failed miserably, but at least he tried. "The Farce Awakens" is just a re-hash of something we know and love.

Even if Episode VIII is a good movie, we are going to be forced to compare it to "The Empire Strikes Back" because of what TFA did in being a copy of ANH. It's not a fair comparison, Empire is not just the best Star Wars film, but it's one of the best films of all time. But that is the situation that Disney has put us in. Hopefully Darth Kylo won't take his mask off again...

Interestingly, I feel that Kylo Ren was exactly what we needed in the Phantom Menace. Get rid of the kid and have Anakin as a moody teenager with temper tantrums and then Qui-Gonn's decision to train him becomes more perilous and the foundation for Anakin's fall to the darkside makes more sense. I actually liked the Kyp Durron...I mean Kylo Ren took off his helmet in the movie. There was significantly more emotion and connection with the character because of it. I certainly don't hate Ep7 because of Kylo Ren.

As for JJ, well he made it clear that he didn't understand the original trilogy. By far my biggest complaint is that by moving the timeline forward and having the Dark Side in ascendancy again (essential master and apprentice) with no Jedi running around he essentially wrote the original trilogy out off screen. The whole point of the OT is that Luke brings back the Jedi (it;s even in the title). But then between movies, Luke manage to fail miserably at the same time as making exactly the same mistakes he knows his masters made. To make it even weirder, both of them are Force Ghosts who could keep advising him as he sets up a Jedi Academy. There must actually be a force ghost Jedi Council, yet Luke still fails. JJ missed the whole point of RotJ and then essentially erased it as if it had never happened!

I finally saw the new Star Wars yesterday... and it was way better than I expected. I have to watch it a few more times to properly compare it, but right now it shot to number 1...

7, 5, 6, 3, 2, 1, 4. Poor acting and crappy dialog aside, I didn't mind the prequels or jar jar as much as some folk. 4 is at the bottom because I've seen them all so often, and that one happens to be the slowest one with the least stuff happening, so I'm starting to find it boring. I fall asleep usually around that scene where Han says 'boring conversation anyway'.

I've been enjoying both version so the clone wars series, and thanks to the cgi one, like Jar Jar a lot more now. I still need to get into Rebels.

Star Wars fight you say?

*cracks knuckles*

Why were there no force ghosts in episode 7? That would have been really cool.

I finally saw the new Star Wars yesterday... and it was way better than I expected. I have to watch it a few more times to properly compare it, but right now it shot to number 1...

7, 5, 6, 3, 2, 1, 4. Poor acting and crappy dialog aside, I didn't mind the prequels or jar jar as much as some folk. 4 is at the bottom because I've seen them all so often, and that one happens to be the slowest one with the least stuff happening, so I'm starting to find it boring. I fall asleep usually around that scene where Han says 'boring conversation anyway'.

I've been enjoying both version so the clone wars series, and thanks to the cgi one, like Jar Jar a lot more now. I still need to get into Rebels.

Seriously? This is an indictment of current cinema where CGI is so easy to produce that people, some anyway, have begun to regard the second most complete movie in the series as "the most boring-est one". Now we must have explosions and flashy lights and crap all over the screen for 2 hours to qualify as a good film. Scandalous! If you compare Star Wars circa 1977 to The Force Awakens circa 2015 you have a film that was a technological marvel in its time to a film that is same old bag of... cgi tricks that exist in every other film. The Force Awakens is the 1977 equivalent of Starship Invasions. Its not the least bit revolutionary. Kylo Ren is sorry replica of Darth Vader. You won't see Kylo at the top of every movie bad guy list for the next 40 years. In 1977 there were lines around the block to see Star Wars. In 1978 there were lines around the block to see Star Wars. In 1979 there were lines around the block to see Star Wars. The Force Awakens in out DVD with very little fan-fare 5 months later. Pretty soon it will be forgotten as the suits start ramping up to Rogue One in the hopes of selling more toys. Hopefully that's a decent film, but I seriously doubt it.

Star Wars fight you say?

*cracks knuckles*

Why were there no force ghosts in episode 7? That would have been really cool.

Yeah, between force ghost Obi Wan, force ghost Yoda, and force ghost Anakin, Rea would have had all the training she needed to use the force to pilot the Falcon, mind trick stormtroopers, see into Kylo's mind, force grab a light saber and have a real light saber battle against a trained Jedi/Sith. Too bad she didn't get any training, force ghosts would have made that movie...

Its a new trope, instead of lampshading something... we just force ghost it.

Why did XYZ? Easy, a force ghost did it.

Also, that the hell is up with these "ISB infiltrators"? The ISB was Gestapo and James Bond, and these guys are all Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell.

Does FFG have any idea what a "spy" actually is?

Its a new trope, instead of lampshading something... we just force ghost it.

Why did XYZ? Easy, a force ghost did it.

I like it. It's a nice updating of the Wizard did it trope.

Star Wars fight you say?

*cracks knuckles*

Why were there no force ghosts in episode 7? That would have been really cool.

Easy answer... *midiclorian halflife*

Seriously? This is an indictment of current cinema where CGI is so easy to produce that people, some anyway, have begun to regard the second most complete movie in the series as "the most boring-est one". Now we must have explosions and flashy lights and crap all over the screen for 2 hours to qualify as a good film. Scandalous! If you compare Star Wars circa 1977 to The Force Awakens circa 2015 you have a film that was a technological marvel in its time to a film that is same old bag of... cgi tricks that exist in every other film. The Force Awakens is the 1977 equivalent of Starship Invasions. Its not the least bit revolutionary. Kylo Ren is sorry replica of Darth Vader. You won't see Kylo at the top of every movie bad guy list for the next 40 years. In 1977 there were lines around the block to see Star Wars. In 1978 there were lines around the block to see Star Wars. In 1979 there were lines around the block to see Star Wars. The Force Awakens in out DVD with very little fan-fare 5 months later. Pretty soon it will be forgotten as the suits start ramping up to Rogue One in the hopes of selling more toys. Hopefully that's a decent film, but I seriously doubt it.

Hey, I actually agree with you when it comes to modern films. Been bored to tears with the whole Marvel universe. Guardians of the galaxy was a snore fest. Star Wars VII, for the couple flaws it had, surpassed anything I've seen in the last decade in terms of personality and heart. And it surpassed the prequels in leaps and bounds. I liked it more than the original trilogy because it had a sense of humour that the others didn't have enough of. As for IV, it might have been as technological marvel at the time, but it's plot is actually pretty **** dry. Annoying farmboy joins the rebellion and blows up the big bad superweapon. It's a cool adventure story, but it lacked a lot. Probably a very subjective opinion... I liked Back to the Future and Ghostbusters more, cause they were funnier.

Its a new trope, instead of lampshading something... we just force ghost it.

Star Wars: Episode VIII - A New Trope

I hated The Force Awakens and I sincerely hope to NEVER see any figure from that or Rebels in IA. It is too late for X-Wing, darn-it, but the Ghost is a far cry from an Ezra mini.

100% agree.

Rebels ruins Star Wars with kiddie Disney crap and Episode 7 stuff would make no sense in IA since its not even the Empire.

You know what would be awesome? A Ben Kenobi force ghost as a *playable character*

You know what would be awesome? A Ben Kenobi force ghost as a *playable character*

His abilities include telling characters to use the force, telling them to go to dagobah, and when you lose, he can say it depends on your point or view...

Here *my secret. I didn't think Natalie Portman did a bad job. Had she been cast opposite something other than the cardboard cutout of Hayden Christenson, she would have been able to do more.

Anakin should have been cast as any ethnicity other than white. Preferably Asian.

It really bothers me the way that white guys can get non-white girls in any movie they try in western cinema, but the other way round is vanishingly rare.

Here *my secret. I didn't think Natalie Portman did a bad job. Had she been cast opposite something other than the cardboard cutout of Hayden Christenson, she would have been able to do more.

I actually thought both of their acting was good in places, but bad in others. I think it was 100% due to the extensive use of green screen. They had very little to work off other than each other, and that was a problem since there wasn't much natural chemistry. They both deliver their lines rather monotonously in general, but add Ewan McGregor in, and their scenes and delivery improved significantly. IMO.

Anakin should have been cast as any ethnicity other than white. Preferably Asian.

It really bothers me the way that white guys can get non-white girls in any movie they try in western cinema, but the other way round is vanishingly rare.

The biggest problem with this thread is that I never know if someone posts something seriously or facetiously in order to start a fight, as the title requests. How does one respond?

JJ missed the whole point of RotJ and then essentially erased it as if it had never happened!

RotJ has some of the best individual scenes in the OT... but I don't think it's a good movie. Most of it being ignored isn't a bad thing. Force ghosts are silly and the less that's said about them, the better. With any luck we'll get a throwaway line in Episode VIII that Snoke killed all Force ghosts and the possibility of more Force ghosts. I mean... Yoda can't help a brother out when Luke is about to give into the Dark Side vs. Vader? Or you know... Anakin frigging Skywalker can't show up in front of Kylo Ren and tell him to chill the hell out?

Force ghosts are horrible and stupid and I never want to see another one ever again.

Here *my secret. I didn't think Natalie Portman did a bad job. Had she been cast opposite something other than the cardboard cutout of Hayden Christenson, she would have been able to do more.

Let us also be fair to Hayden for a moment and acknowledge that Daniel Day Lewis couldn't have done anything interesting with Anakin's character arc as written in the PT.

Here *my secret. I didn't think Natalie Portman did a bad job. Had she been cast opposite something other than the cardboard cutout of Hayden Christenson, she would have been able to do more.

Natalie Portman would have done a fine job. Lucas' dialog has been iffy since Star Wars, but others challenged him before the prequels. George just wasn't up to given Portman a challenge worthy of her skill, which is sad. Even Hayden could have been better with a better script. I'm not everyone will agree, but I think Red Letter Media with their Plinkett parody review of the prequels, but mainly TPM and AOTC really exposes the plethora of problems with the prequels.

JJ missed the whole point of RotJ and then essentially erased it as if it had never happened!

RotJ has some of the best individual scenes in the OT... but I don't think it's a good movie. Most of it being ignored isn't a bad thing. Force ghosts are silly and the less that's said about them, the better. With any luck we'll get a throwaway line in Episode VIII that Snoke killed all Force ghosts and the possibility of more Force ghosts. I mean... Yoda can't help a brother out when Luke is about to give into the Dark Side vs. Vader? Or you know... Anakin frigging Skywalker can't show up in front of Kylo Ren and tell him to chill the hell out?

Force ghosts are horrible and stupid and I never want to see another one ever again.

Here *my secret. I didn't think Natalie Portman did a bad job. Had she been cast opposite something other than the cardboard cutout of Hayden Christenson, she would have been able to do more.

Let us also be fair to Hayden for a moment and acknowledge that Daniel Day Lewis couldn't have done anything interesting with Anakin's character arc as written in the PT.

I'm not to big on the force ghosts either. I liked that Ben was able to communicate with Luke in Star Wars, but he foreshadowed that by telling Vader he'd become more powerful than he could possible imagine. So, it was like a short term possession to help him destroy the Death Star. He should have been gone after that. I don't know how you get Luke to Yoda, but it could have been something like how Donner got young Clark into the arctic. Dreams would have worked.

And why we are at hit, however, Snoke has to be one of the stupidest villains I've seen in a film recently. Even over the top, campy, Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy was better. I left the Force Awakens with "yeah, that wasn't that good" to now, when I think, "that really was a sh** movie."

And why we are at hit, however, Snoke has to be one of the stupidest villains I've seen in a film recently. Even over the top, campy, Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy was better. I left the Force Awakens with "yeah, that wasn't that good" to now, when I think, "that really was a sh** movie."

Snoke is pretty bad. Horrible name, way too Gollum for my liking, and I don't know... just lame? I wouldn't have minded the other stuff if he'd done anything other than just sit around and derp.

I'm mixed on TFA. I don't know that its a good movie in of itself. But it did wash the prequel taste out of my mouth and at least it tried to be fun. Star Wars was fun, Return of the Jedi was probably too fun for its own good but at least it tried, and hell, even frigging Empire had some fun in it. The Prequels just flopped between the terrible slapstick of Jar Jar to the completely soulless angst of Anakin in RotS and seemed to forget that people might want to have a good time when they're glued to a seat for two hours.

And I know I'm probably alone in this, but I frigging love Kylo Ren. Love. Him. He's everything I thought Anakin should have been in the prequels. Very powerful but overly confident in a way that exposes his limitations. Bounces back and forth between challenging authority but also needing the validation of his mentor. Has outbursts of immaturity that manifest themselves in some way other than slaughtering a village of Sandpeople (I still can't believe Padme just kind of... sat there when Anakin told her he did that. Awful.). He wants to be like the guy he's emulating so badly that he wears an unnecessary mask with a voice modulator and gets called out on it constantly. I think they really nailed the "young adult angst coupled with great power" with him.

So if too much rehash, supposedly inconsistent Force aptitude, and an ego character I can actually get behind are the prices I have to pay for a Star Wars flick that has some fun, rompy action in it... I'll pay.

And why we are at hit, however, Snoke has to be one of the stupidest villains I've seen in a film recently. Even over the top, campy, Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy was better. I left the Force Awakens with "yeah, that wasn't that good" to now, when I think, "that really was a sh** movie."

Snoke is pretty bad. Horrible name, way too Gollum for my liking, and I don't know... just lame? I wouldn't have minded the other stuff if he'd done anything other than just sit around and derp.

I'm mixed on TFA. I don't know that its a good movie in of itself. But it did wash the prequel taste out of my mouth and at least it tried to be fun. Star Wars was fun, Return of the Jedi was probably too fun for its own good but at least it tried, and hell, even frigging Empire had some fun in it. The Prequels just flopped between the terrible slapstick of Jar Jar to the completely soulless angst of Anakin in RotS and seemed to forget that people might want to have a good time when they're glued to a seat for two hours.

And I know I'm probably alone in this, but I frigging love Kylo Ren. Love. Him. He's everything I thought Anakin should have been in the prequels. Very powerful but overly confident in a way that exposes his limitations. Bounces back and forth between challenging authority but also needing the validation of his mentor. Has outbursts of immaturity that manifest themselves in some way other than slaughtering a village of Sandpeople (I still can't believe Padme just kind of... sat there when Anakin told her he did that. Awful.). He wants to be like the guy he's emulating so badly that he wears an unnecessary mask with a voice modulator and gets called out on it constantly. I think they really nailed the "young adult angst coupled with great power" with him.

So if too much rehash, supposedly inconsistent Force aptitude, and an ego character I can actually get behind are the prices I have to pay for a Star Wars flick that has some fun, rompy action in it... I'll pay.

Yes, it would have been better to have a ROTS Anakin by like Kylo. A huge problem with the prequels was Anakins arc. Lucas simply didn't plan out the whole trilogy, and it shows, because 2 hours are wasted on this Force Jesus story that has really zero relevance. Had he started off as a pilot for the Republic, a young upstart that met Obi Wan on the mission to Naboo, they would have much more time to build the two main characters. Obi Wan and Anakin. I had thought this out once.

The whole film would be about Anakin slowly building his relationship with the young Queen, whose 2 years his junior in my idea, but whom he still thinks is just a handmaiden. He also bonds with Obi Wan. Qui Gonn sends them off to find parts because Anakin is from Tatooine, but Anakin finds out there is still a gangster looking for him whom Anakin beat i a swoop race and he didn't like it. So we still have a race. Obi Wan sees all this potential in Anakin, but Qui Gonn is the one playing the negative Nelly. When they return to Naboo to launch their plan, Anakin joins the other pilots. Much of it still happens the way it did, except without the accidental destruction of the droid control ship, and no Gungans. Darth Maul still kills Qui Gon, but escapes.

This leads up to Obi Wan secretly training Anakin in the second film, while also getting him a job working with the Jedi as a test pilot. This allows Obi Wan to take Anakin with him on missions. I've thought a lot more about it, but I don't want to write a wall of text describing everything. I've digressed enough. Suffice it to say Anakins fall should have been 6 or so hours, not 5 minutes.

I liked the clone wars animation better then the prequel movies.

I liked the 2003 Clone Wars animated series better than The Clone Wars.

The Tartakovsky Clone Wars is probably the best animated Star Wars to ever grace screens.

Episode III is still my favorite Star Wars movie. Great music, great action, great SFX, and I really love both Anakin's fall and the Emperor's takeover.