In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Toqtamish, on 02 Apr 2016 - 1:18 PM, said:

bmf, on 02 Apr 2016 - 1:09 PM, said:

Anyone know what Nathan is running?

Imperials. I know he has Soontir for sure.

Soontir, Vader, Inquisitor

FTS Gecko, on 02 Apr 2016 - 4:35 PM, said:

BlueRat, on 02 Apr 2016 - 4:17 PM, said:

Seems like Rebels have suffered a lot more from the Jumpmaster invasion than Imperials. Interesting to hear how many of those Palp lists are running carnor jax instead of soontir.

A lot of Rebel ships are high health/low agility with ferw native repositioning options, which can potentially suffer a lot from the U-Boat's alphastriking shenanigans.

At least one of the photos on the FFG Organised Play account showed Kihraxz in play - I'd like to know what that list is and how it's getting on!

I played against a Talonbane and 2 butterfly list that was flown very well. Another showed me his Syck and 3x Kihraxz list with 2x swarm tactics for 3 PS9 Kihraxz's.

jimmius, on 02 Apr 2016 - 6:51 PM, said:

LordBlades, on 02 Apr 2016 - 6:39 PM, said:

MajorJuggler, on 02 Apr 2016 - 6:30 PM, said:

I have all the lists here:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/215832-2016-system-open-series-results/#entry2143248

Almost twice as many Imperials as Rebels and Scum combined

But muh rebel bias

EDIT: Speaking of, I know know T-65s made anywhere near top 16, but was there a single list that even included them?

I saw Biggs in the top 32 of the second game on the final day. Not sure where he ended up.

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

How exactly does he convert 3 blanks to evades? Can't get one-shotted? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

How exactly does he convert 3 blanks to evades? Can't get one-shotted? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

1 evade token, autothrusters, Palpatine.

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

How exactly does he convert 3 blanks to evades? Can't get one-shotted? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

Autothrusters, Palpatine, evade token. And that's not counting natural evades or focus results.

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

How exactly does he convert 3 blanks to evades? Can't get one-shotted? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

Autothrusters, Palpatine, evade token. And that's not counting natural evades or focus results.

That isn't converting 3 blanks. That is converting 1 blank with autothrusters, modifying 1 blank into evade with Palpatine and ADDING 1 evade with the token.

This only happens either at range 3 or out of arc turret so it is very specific and not all the time. Wampa, Darth Vader Crew and Omega Leader have something to say about this too though...

Had a lot of fun at the event. Drove in from MI Thursday Night and played in the second day and in the hangar bay the final day (Sat).

My quick recap would be that I went 3-3 with a list type I wanted to try, had never played before, and that might fair OK against triple U boats or Imp Aces... and was only matched to a single Imp Aces (no palp) list the whole day.

For the large number of JM5k's I saw, I saw more Imperial Aces builds and a wide variety of builds I had not seen before, many of which were incorporating wave 8 elements.

The final day I watched the a few matchups during the first two rounds. The second round I noted 23 jumpmasters at the top 16 tables; table one was Palp aces vs Palp aces; second crack swarm vs crack swarm; more jumpmasters the further down the tables, more Imp aces towards the top; one Biggs; one Dash; a modest number of VCX's.

Went 1-3 in the hangar bay. First matchup was against my brother-in-law who drove down from WI to attend with me. Was a nice treat because we had hoped to play a casual match with each other at some point.

Was able to watch the end of the final game and then drive home through some heavier than expected snow. I took notes on the matches and may post those up on the sub forum later.

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

How exactly does he convert 3 blanks to evades? Can't get one-shotted? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

Autothrusters, Palpatine, evade token. And that's not counting natural evades or focus results.

I forgot that palp comes free with soontir

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

How exactly does he convert 3 blanks to evades? Can't get one-shotted? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

Autothrusters, Palpatine, evade token. And that's not counting natural evades or focus results.

I forgot that palp comes free with soontir

Soontir and Palpatine for 43 points is still undercosted. Those 43 points are better than any other 43 points spent elsewhere.

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

How exactly does he convert 3 blanks to evades? Can't get one-shotted? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

Autothrusters, Palpatine, evade token. And that's not counting natural evades or focus results.

I forgot that palp comes free with soontir

Soontir and Palpatine for 43 points is still undercosted. Those 43 points are better than any other 43 points spent elsewhere.

I forgot that soontir had two crew spaces.

Seriously, soontir is not OP especially not since people learned how to beat him. Bump Chopper, the inquisitor, omega leader, wampa, ordinance, bombs and crackshot there are so many things that Soontir just does not match up well against and A LOT of these are going to define the new meta. Notice, that alot of the Palp aces at hoth were whisper/inq or inq/wampa/omega

but at least the stress hog has pretty much run its course so Soontir does have that going for it!

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

How exactly does he convert 3 blanks to evades? Can't get one-shotted? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

Autothrusters, Palpatine, evade token. And that's not counting natural evades or focus results.

I forgot that palp comes free with soontir

Soontir and Palpatine for 43 points is still undercosted. Those 43 points are better than any other 43 points spent elsewhere.

Last I checked, Palatine doesn't fit on a Tie Interceptor. You need to include the 21 point Shuttle as well. Bringing your total to 64 points to be able to turn 3 blank evade dice to 3 evades, as long as you are out of arc or at Range 3 AND have an evade token. One time a round. Not saying it isn't good, just saying, if your going to say Soontir alone is under-costed because he can use Palpatine, you really need to include the full cost of Palpatine.

Rebels have options. Really good options, just gotta be smart.

Fat Han w/ homing missile Zs can deal with Aces and Scouts.

Any stress meta control builds shut down aces so hard.

And a Z missile spam right would still clean up.

I hope you find some combo that works for your favourite ship, come nationals, rebels will be present and no real worries will be given to their position in the meta.

Your first two options will be destroyed by Scouts easily

Z missile spam will get rocked by Palp aces

I'm not saying the game is done etc, or Rebels are done. It's true that they lack a real option to confront both Palp Aces and Scouts.

It's just silly for anyone to celebrate that, though.

That is exactly what i was also trying to say. Rebels are unable to counter both Aces snd Jumpys in the same list. It's hard enough to counter U-Boats only but then you are far away from an all comers list. My hope is that Imperial or other Scum lists counter them hard enough that they will not consistently win events. Then they will disappear pretty fast and Rebels will not even need a buff or anything.

But as algnc says, why anyone can find pleasure in one faction falling behind for some reason, it's beyond me!

But as algnc says, why anyone can find pleasure in one faction falling behind for some reason, it's beyond me!

I'm not sure if I believe quite yet that rebels are falling behind (though hoth open didn't look good for them...we'll see where it goes for the other system open events and regionals), part of the reasoning could be because rebels have won worlds for the last 3 years and people hope that another faction might actually do so for once? Or scum players tired of being the faction that was "behind" happy to not be the ones there anymore, even if it's at the expense of another faction? Dunno. If they ARE falling behind, I definitely don't think it's a good thing, and hope the get brought back up to snuff soon.

In my opinicon the Scout is undercosted. It´s a 2 attack dice, PS 3, 9 health, 2 evade dice, with EPT, also with barrel roll, is only 25 points.

The outer rim smuggler, PS 1, 2 attack dice, 1 evade dice, 10 health, no EPT and no barrel roll is 27. I don´t know what the hell were thinking when they made the value for the Scout.

Soontir with PtL, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and the title for 35 points is even more undercosted.

Except you can't run 3 Soontir's.

I don't think Soontir is undercosted. He only has 3 hull and no shields.

The Scouts also can't be one-shotted.

Soontir with can convert 3 blanks to evade results. He does not "only have 3 hull" and he also can't be one shotted. He's the hardest ship in the game to kill.

How exactly does he convert 3 blanks to evades? Can't get one-shotted? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

Autothrusters, Palpatine, evade token. And that's not counting natural evades or focus results.

I forgot that palp comes free with soontir

Soontir and Palpatine for 43 points is still undercosted. Those 43 points are better than any other 43 points spent elsewhere.

Its also not Palpmobile that causes this much trouble to the whole Rebel faction at the moment!

But as algnc says, why anyone can find pleasure in one faction falling behind for some reason, it's beyond me!

I'm not sure if I believe quite yet that rebels are falling behind (though hoth open didn't look good for them...we'll see where it goes for the other system open events and regionals), part of the reasoning could be because rebels have won worlds for the last 3 years and people hope that another faction might actually do so for once? Or scum players tired of being the faction that was "behind" happy to not be the ones there anymore, even if it's at the expense of another faction? Dunno. If they ARE falling behind, I definitely don't think it's a good thing, and hope the get brought back up to snuff soon.

I have nothing against Scum or Empire having top lists, hell i play Empire mostly on tournaments, but I am strongly against any faction not having at least one or two lists that are able to make the cut at the top of the meta. I cant think of any Rebel list that does at the moment and all propositions that have been made for such lists look even flawed or weak on paper. And in reality until now indont see them do well either.

However this is in fact only one result and its not the time to overreact. The sky is not at all falling. Not yet, and i dont think it will!

What i think will happen is this: Jumpmasters look strong but i think counters exist that will hold them back, even if these are not Rebel counters. This will affect the number of people picking Jumpmasters negatively as soon as they are being countered, and Rebels can come back with good results!

Rebels have options. Really good options, just gotta be smart.

Fat Han w/ homing missile Zs can deal with Aces and Scouts.

Any stress meta control builds shut down aces so hard.

And a Z missile spam right would still clean up.

I hope you find some combo that works for your favourite ship, come nationals, rebels will be present and no real worries will be given to their position in the meta.

Your first two options will be destroyed by Scouts easily

Z missile spam will get rocked by Palp aces

I'm not saying the game is done etc, or Rebels are done. It's true that they lack a real option to confront both Palp Aces and Scouts.

It's just silly for anyone to celebrate that, though.

That is exactly what i was also trying to say. Rebels are unable to counter both Aces snd Jumpys in the same list. It's hard enough to counter U-Boats only but then you are far away from an all comers list. My hope is that Imperial or other Scum lists counter them hard enough that they will not consistently win events. Then they will disappear pretty fast and Rebels will not even need a buff or anything.

But as algnc says, why anyone can find pleasure in one faction falling behind for some reason, it's beyond me!

Not saying a faction falling behind is good for the game, but there was way less complaint about this when Scum participation numbers were 10% or so below average and they had 2 lists in top 16 at Worlds last year

But as algnc says, why anyone can find pleasure in one faction falling behind for some reason, it's beyond me!

I'm not sure if I believe quite yet that rebels are falling behind (though hoth open didn't look good for them...we'll see where it goes for the other system open events and regionals), part of the reasoning could be because rebels have won worlds for the last 3 years and people hope that another faction might actually do so for once? Or scum players tired of being the faction that was "behind" happy to not be the ones there anymore, even if it's at the expense of another faction? Dunno. If they ARE falling behind, I definitely don't think it's a good thing, and hope the get brought back up to snuff soon.

Post 118 shows that the factions were split pretty equally. 34% for Imps and Scum and 32% for rebels. So, Rebel's lack of success isn't looking like it is due to lack of play.

But as algnc says, why anyone can find pleasure in one faction falling behind for some reason, it's beyond me!

I'm not sure if I believe quite yet that rebels are falling behind (though hoth open didn't look good for them...we'll see where it goes for the other system open events and regionals), part of the reasoning could be because rebels have won worlds for the last 3 years and people hope that another faction might actually do so for once? Or scum players tired of being the faction that was "behind" happy to not be the ones there anymore, even if it's at the expense of another faction? Dunno. If they ARE falling behind, I definitely don't think it's a good thing, and hope the get brought back up to snuff soon.

Post 118 shows that the factions were split pretty equally. 34% for Imps and Scum and 32% for rebels. So, Rebel's lack of success isn't looking like it is due to lack of play.

Rebel players do have options for the Wave 8 meta though. They can build lists that can deal with bth U-Boats and Palp Aces.

Also, Rebels are just as screwed by Palp Aces and U-Boats as Scum and Empire are. Suggest to me a viable Imperial list that doesn't involve (Palpatine) Acewings or a viable Scum list that isn't U-Boats or Brobots. Palp Aces screws over Empire more than it does rebels, try using a bunch of 2 attack TIE Fighters against Soontir.

Many Rebel players have switched to the Ghost. It's perfectly viable and it's a very fun ship, the right way to do a turret/fat ship in general.

True, the Ghost is a really great ship. http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!156:36,120,-1,-1,38,160:25:14:;160:98,-1,33:26:-1:;4:-1,77:-1:20:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

Thats my rebel list at the moment. Kanan and Biggs counter U-Boats in a soft way (its not an easy matchup, but it also isn't favoured towards anyone too badly), the ABT double tap scares the hell out of aces in a gigantic area because of the large base (not to mention 2 dice Vader and Soontir really aren't impressive). Should everything go wrong Sabine jumps from her position as MoV bank and starts cleaning up with an effortlessy active Lone Wolf and her crazy ability. Generics shouldn't stand a chance late game and aces can be dealt with because she is just so mobile.

Rebels, you aren't chanceless, you just have to embrace the new!

True, the Ghost is a really great ship. http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!156:36,120,-1,-1,38,160:25:14:;160:98,-1,33:26:-1:;4:-1,77:-1:20:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

Thats my rebel list at the moment. Kanan and Biggs counter U-Boats in a soft way (its not an easy matchup, but it also isn't favoured towards anyone too badly), the ABT double tap scares the hell out of aces in a gigantic area because of the large base (not to mention 2 dice Vader and Soontir really aren't impressive). Should everything go wrong Sabine jumps from her position as MoV bank and starts cleaning up with an effortlessy active Lone Wolf and her crazy ability. Generics shouldn't stand a chance late game and aces can be dealt with because she is just so mobile.

Rebels, you aren't chanceless, you just have to embrace the new!

Got me started, what about Reinforced Deflectors and Gunner on Ghost. Yes you lose out on FCS, but what you gain, is more life vs Torpedo Hits and also Vader or any Tie using ATC also gets max 2 hits on you as you recover 1 shield if 3 hits or more. Gunner helps to use your attack more effective.

Gunner doesn't work at all with the Ghost title. You can't attack anymore after you used it and the Phantom title has a similar clause, which means you can't use Gunner on the turret shot.

Reinforced Deflectors is certianly interesting, but not on Kanan since he reduces the number of dice thrown at him. additionaly FCS just offers so much when you have a 4 dice primary that its hard to not use.