Just wanted to get some constructive talk about our newest set. GeneralReaction89 posted a pretty solid top 5 that was pretty quickly derailed. Let's keep this thread on topic and lets get some creativity flowing around in regards to our newest helping of SC4.

Some VERY general, brief observations about the new set:

1. Paul gets REALLY good. Not that he wasnt before, but he gets a HUGE push in this set. Possibly even better than Astrid/King (Possibly guys. dont flame me bro.) He gets great speed pump and damage in Defeated the Rifle and an excellent 1/5 in Strength Within to replace the otherwise unexciting Ancient Fighting Style. Furthermore, we have utility like Battle Tested and the new rezone green/gray cards.

2. LIfe is VERY viable now if not A tier or even S tier. Lots of excellent front runners like Rugi, X, Ziggy, Tira, the newly legal Kisheri (well legal in the states), and a host of other very playable characters. Untouchable staging area due to Perfect Sense and Torn Hero, tons of speed with Acrobatic acting as a pseudo Absurd Strength, interesting and flexible attacks, great 1/5's and ons of other high points will make life a definite front runner in the coming regional season.

3. Amy. It might just be Atlanta, but we really like this young lady. Order or Good Amy, while both play very different, each have very explosive kill conditions, tremendous speed, and great defensive tricks like Triple Botta in Tempo and huge reversals. Havent looked much into water builds though.

4. Mist Stance. Incredibly solid new win condition in a lot of different decks. Life and Fire give you the best high attacks. This card, especially in decks like rugi, marius gaius, and cassy, is going to do a lot for changing the face of aggro.

5. Tower of Remembrance- Ancient Gate. People calling for more hard control just got their prayers answered. This card busts combos like crazy, slows the game down to a crawl, and is even a very powerful offensive asset due to its ability to punish players for committing out (opponent commits 4 foundations, you hit twice on your turn to 2 card in card pool, blocking is now VERY tough.) Having access to Tower Of Souls (yeah go ahead and read what it does) ensure that you can get yours in play and protected before your opponent. Helps a ton in boosting White Crane and Lu Chen;s spot in the tiers (both characters i feel are very strong mid tier, if not top tier characters after the new set).

6. I LOVE Seal. This is probably my new favorite poke in Chaos right now. I dont know if i like it in life right now as i prefer mist stance + high attacks, but in aggressive mishima decks, it is very strong. Feeding need to destroy to Seal gives you 2 fresh foundations to beat your opponent up with and the 5 base speed and +1 mid makes decks like jin and heihachi very happy. Love this attack and I am sure it will see a ton of play.

So let me know what you guys are seeing with this new set. Any cool combos/interactions that you guys are trying out?

Quest for Souls + Tekken Forces

Good just became THE "I spam faster than you" symbol. Even if you do fall behind, that little combo will either net you some cards, counter Taki/No Forgiveness (or become bait for such) or help you set up by adding a card to your staging area. Good thing TF has that "You must have less foundations than your opponent" limitation, but Regretful Existence solves that problem easy peasy.

Based on the pre-release we've had today...

Golden Shrine is the biggest taunt of a pressure card. It has SO much pressure built into such a tiny card...it's just so annoying. It's tempting to take the miniscule 3, but you can't just discard 2 cards.

Bad Stomach, and ESPECIALLY Meditating in Battle are too lame. I'm so glad anti-discard exists, because far too many games can be won by these cards.

Needs a Challenge, more than likely, needs to be ran in almost anything that can run it. It's simply TOO good.

To the Ends of the Earth is better than I ever thought. Giving a block breaker 4 was way easier than I imagined.

Taki, and her support, is still has useless as I thought IN CONJUNCTION WITH TAKI. Elsewhere, it can be pretty alright (the only fun card was Musoh-Battoh-Ryu, which is kinda like Pillar of Heaven).

I got to finish papers then I will do another symbol critique. I think there are some crazy stuff that can be done. But speed hate needs to become more common I know that for a fact.

you liking those 3 diff foundations? theyre good but im not gonna start running 3-4 diff 3 diff foundations.

I do have to half agree with you that Taki's Foundation support is better for playing against her than as her.

and I'm fairly sure Taki loves Quest Of Souls twice as much as her opponent. +1 handsize getting the attacks you flung earlier, or negating the cost of her First F, or at least acting as a target to keep other pieces safe. but if you get 2 out as Taki theres no way youll have any face down foundations if you dont want them.

so far the set seems to, other than mitsurugi support, kinda regress back to a more foundation war-type stall until you can surely kill type decks. where you somehow gather up enough steam to make your opponent unable to block. but that's part of increasing the limited card pool.

Sophitia is pretty nasty free speed pump/hate, but thats on a character, not very access able to other characters.

i know at our prerelease it wasn't fun going up against my opponent who pulled amy and got out 2 To the Ends of the Earth out for a Breaker:6 wall

I'm having fun with Taki, so far she's won more than she's lost, and it's been fairly clear that playing against her is unlike any other matchup. she is still yet to hit an actual tourney though shes played half of its contenders.

Anyone know what heir to the storm does? Not a hard combo to figure out.

ShippuJinrai said:

Don't count out Ancient Fighting Style. It's an excellent counter to Financial Troubles, a card that is seeing massive play. Also, that +4M block is nuts with The Ultimate Team and Hammer of the Gods.

Shaneth said:

Fixed

Also, Pavilion is going to be very painful:

1. Yoshimitsu* + Pavilion = they lose 2 vitality per attack (including as a block)

2. Triggers Excellent Thief

Speaking of Excellent Thief, that card is TOO easy to use. Bad Stomach, Meditation in Battle, Pavilion, the list goes on and on. It's too simple draw.

Finally, I hate Contemplating. If it just said "due to an effect", I'd be fine with it, but as it's currently worded, it might as well say "after your attack deals damage, draw 1 card." I guess?

MarcoPulleaux said:

2/5 no block that is on a R Commit : Granted, Death can pretty much say "I get 2 uses out of each version depending on how many of my attacks do damage" but still.

Wait, how does Pavilion say they lose 2 vitality off every attack?

For one, Yoshimitsu has a commit cost, and for another, he only responds to cards discarded by his opponent... so off pavilion he can burn them for 1. and that's it unless you ready him, which can't currently be done more than once in a turn, and only on your own turn.

He means the Yoshimitsu* asset. Man, No Forgiveness! is looking better by the minute...

Tagrineth said:

He meant with the Asset of the same name. Yoshimitsu*

They Play an attack must discard and draw then lose 2.

Ah, okay. Because you know, there are two different cards in the set that can be called Yoshimitsu*...

LordAggro said:

No Forgiveness! was always awesome.

contemplating makes it so you can respond to any kind of vitality loss, whether it be an attack, or yoshimitsu burning you after a discard

Homme Chapeau said:

Well it's definitely not BROKEN, it's just, up to this point, you have to struggle a bit more to draw cards, not just Crushing Embrace them (a nod to your Death comment).

A single commit to draw a card doesn't seem overpowered at all, especially when the trigger will generally revolve around attacking your opponent somehow. For the record, Demon Eyes was only ever played to loop Kubi Ori, and the character with that effect printed on her saw negligible tournament play.

What Tag said. If Contemplating could only trigger off a direct vitality loss effect, it'd be dismissed as a gimmicky piece not worth running because of its non-block status. As it is, it's a solid, but not game-breaking piece.

Tagrineth said:

Vast Resources never really struck me as being overpowered anyway, unless used in some sort of combo (notably, Voldomar and Yun-Seong3).

It far too easily led to overextending while you fish for the card you need.

edit: tbh the most broken thing about Vast, in retrospect, was that it said "Commit 1 foundation: your opponent draws 1 card". Hah.

Fair enough. The more cards I get to abuse Researching the Past, the happier I am

LordAggro said:

I'd run it. Hell I put it in my deck before I learned it was attack/vit loss.

Vast Resources wasn't really broken , but it was really, really strong. It was most easily abusable from the angle of "Your opponent draws 1 card" but if it didn't also dig a Rejection to your opponent, it would've been really insane with Kung Fu Training around. And it made things like "I need 2x Hammer to win, or else I lose next turn" much more realistic than hoping for pure topdecks.

The only reason why Vast Resouces wasn't broken was because of the block it was created in. During that block, ****, everything was broken, which is why this new game is simply that much better. In this new game, I sincerely doubt you'll ever see Draw being implemented as brainlessly as "F Commit 1 foundation." All the draw we have requires some sort of theme (with the exception of Contemplating, but that still requires an attack), and so while Vast wasn't broken when you compared it to the other **** in that block, there's no way in Hell it's coming back in this new game, especially not with Researching the Past sharing 2 of its symbols.

Vast wasn't even super powerful in set 5 when it came out (this format is close to ~set 4 ish in pace). It wasn't until decks started ramping up foundation building dramatically around set 6~8 that Vast became mandatory on its resources. Void decks didn't even touch it at all.

I wouldn't want to see Vast in this format either, but I doubt it would hurt the format significantly at all. The most annoying aspect of it would be that it would completely obsolete Temporary Being.