I have to admit, the "Kill em all and let god sort em out" technique is pretty lame too. Our group doesn't do weird things like human players looking at other human players loyalty cards and saying they are human, we really try and win the game. However, just blowing everybodies head off hoping to get lucky is really against the spirit of the game. Part of the game is trying to figure out who the cylon is, not just killing everyone. I enjoy playing particular characters for their ablities and trying to balance out the characters strengths and weaknesses. But if you are just gonna go crazy and kill everybody right out of the gate, why bother choosing characters...just random them and then choose after the first or second round of executions. The airlock wasn't around when the game first began, so there has got to be a better way of finding the traitor than acting like a middle eastern dictator and doing a lightning round of round the clock executions.

Err...i meant humans looking at human loyalty cards and calling them Cylons,...sorry....

There are many better ways of doing it, but they don't work when the other humans are actively sabotaging themselves with false accusations.

I didn't "kill everyone", but rather more like "kill suspected cylons from the most likley down." It just so happens that not everyone agrees who the most likely suspect of cylon. So I found that executing anyone, no matter how guilty they seem to many there is someone (usually an unrevealed cylon) that objects and seeds doubt in the others.

The human looking at a human's loyalty cards and saying he was a cylon said he did that because he feared if he said "human" he would be considered a cylon. The reaction of the human being acused of being a cylong was strong, so that doomed them both to be suspected cylons. The ironic thing is the acused human got the cylon card during sleeper stage, and he was the first one to be freed from jail.

LOL...wow...I thought our group was paranoid. Usually for us, suggesting someone get airlocked is a red flag for cylon posibility. Airlocking is not used very often in our games, only when we are sure that someone is a traitor. I guess we just are not very bloodthirsty;-)

Napoleon

even if you have a cylon player, he is actually helping (at least a little bit) while waiting for a good opportunity to backstab you. most of the character cant use their positiv ability to sabotage actively. for example boomer.. if she leaves a hard crisis on top, you can take a pretty good guess she is a cylon. roslin can play a bad crisis once, or if she is really daring it twice, a game. after that her trust is gone.

generic characters which throw out their entire hand in one skillcheck? keep an eye on them..

roslin only drawing 1 quorum card per round and never played an executiv order?

more than one viper in space? not efficient and possibly not into helping the humans either.

however one of the most important things in bsg.. observe and know the other players. most of them can be read in either way. do they look concerned if morale drops or can they barely hold a giggle? are they most of the time silent? people with a secret would like to go invisible if they can..

there are so much more subtle ways than airlocking the **** out of each other until you are 100% sure you got either the cylon or all non cylons.

Hehe. The idea of airlocking everyone until there are no unrevealed cylons left is pretty amusing to me. My group is way too sensitive to do that , but it would be very effcient if the morale loss can be managed. Before we got confused and instituted the rule that humans have to have the cards to discard in order to choose one result or the other, the humans won about 50% of the time. We are very cooperative as long as the witch hunts don't get too frantic. Everyone has to be doing their job or, if there is nothing appropriate, soliciting the group's advise. People who act on their own a lot are suspicious to us.

Now that I write this though, it makes me think. Is not being required to fulfill the number of discards for a choice only for determining which option to take on a card, or can Rosalin (for example) take an action even if she doesn't have two skill cards and she just has to discard them if she has them?

Caliban said:

It only applies to choices on crisis cards.

This is a great thread. Lots a great info for newbs like me to keep in mind.

Consider my post a bump of sorts to keep it easily readable for new players.

Caliban said:

Airlocking everyone isn't viable at all. It takes far too many cards (skill checks of 12 are hard) and discards too many in addition. The group would be failing skill checks for actual crises left, right and center. More likely, particular people in positions might get executed to ensure that there isn't a cylon in a position to do a great deal of damage (Admiral or President).

Heh, sorry. I was using hyperbole to be funny when I said "everyone". For the most part, my group is not made up of experienced gamers so I was imagining what they would do once they realized the potential benefits of executions. I foresee a lot more human losses (and arguments) before the killing spree ends. Because I'm the one long-time gamer I'm always suspicious, especially when I am trying to provide logical meta game advice...

Up to 18 games player, 3 Human wins.

We can't employ the Airlock strategy in any way (even one Airlock to grant the executed both Admiral and President is frowned.)

I've pretty much resolved myself to the "Humans always lose" and pray for a Cylon loyalty card now.

As a result of this "Humans always lose" problem, I've done a full on audit of how we play games, discovered many things where we were confused (like the 3 dudes on the back of civ ships are a single pop and not 3 pop or 6 pop loss per ship, you can always take the OR's on crisis cards, etc.) Despite now being sure we are playing R.A.W. we still lose. We have lost the last 5 games.

I need a new "help humans win" strategy or I need to convince people to allow suspected cylons to be put in the brig or airlock or something.

risner said:

That. The brig and airlock are the only weapons the humans have against unrevealed cylons, having a social setup where they're frowned upon pretty much guarantees that the humans lose, as the cylons don't have to be sneaky at all.

risner said:

It sounds like your problem isn't a lack of human strategies to try out, but a lack of people willing to try them. From what you've said here, the rest of your group is more interested in treating the game as an RPG with boardgame components than a competitive boardgame, valuing the experience of roleplaying over playing to win. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but given that you seem more interested in playing to win, offering new strategies for you to do so aren't going to matter if no one else in your group bothers to try them out. You can't win the game on your own, and you'll probably continue to be frustrated if you keep trying to do so. Do you have access to another group that might be interested in playing the game in a style that's more congruent with your own?

yeah I have to say Kush and James are right. In my group we have played almost 60 games now and the humans still have only won one time legitimatly. Our group isn't bloodthristy, we really want to space the right guy, BUT once we think we are pretty sure and we aren't talking "without a shadow of a doubt" parameter, we punch their ticket. There simply are not enough game mechanics to detect unrevealed cylons any other way.

There are lots of ways to sniff out the traitor, but typically a pilot or engineering cylon isn't going to be a major problem. Most of the time they HAVE to help or it will look way suspicious. If they just go about doing nothing or do something that the whole table says is stupid and they do it anyways, well that's a pretty good indicator. Typically, as one of those characters, it is best to reveal somewhat early. You can do more damage on the cylon fleet than infiltrating as a pilot or engineer. As an unrevealed you shouldnt put more than 1-2 cards into votes and as a revealed you can only put in 1 card so not that big a difference. Sure you can throw in a ton on a big important one, but then it's obvious who the rat is and you will be going for a walk soon anyways.

The guys you have to worry abotu are the Admiral and President. The President more so, I would say since the Admiral only gets to do the destination thing in secret and it is an infrequent ability. Until you get to NC or close to NC focus on making sure the President is clean. Those quoaram cards are critical. Briging and airlocking folks is a big waste of resources, the vicim will usually fight it, big numbers have to go in because the cylon can always interfere, and if you are wrong you loose a moral. The best way to circumnavigate this is the Arrest orders.

Thats what you should do,...Play the President. When YOU suspect someone of being a cylon save up the airlocking colour cards. Then when ready put him in the brig and airlock him for cheaper yourself. When your play group realizes you were right and now don't have to worry about a cylon agent they will be more willing to go along with the procedure.

But, in the end, you have to be willing to cut folks loose. It kinda sucks, but that's the game.

Napoleon