okay, I didn't mean to start that, I was just asking a question...

Shattered Empires is on my X-mas list, which means I can't buy it until after then =).

Anyway, apparently automated turrets are pretty good, do people usually get these? I mean, they have obvious advantages, but so does all technology. Fighters are only really 'nerfed' against a player who has this tech. If they don't go for it, fighters are still as powerful as ever (barring friendly fire, I suppose). What's more, in TI3, it's fairly easy to change your fleet compositon, it wouldn't be tough to rearrange your fleet to go in without fighters.

People usually get it if someone they are at war with has started stocking up on fighters. It is just the easiest defense against that.

ADT is too early in the tech tree to really catch a player unaware. You have to get control of the tech strategy card and hit them before you flip it or play something like scientist assasination on them.

awp832 said:

From what I've seen, it often depends on the game flavor. If players are building big fleets, ADT is extremely important, to help prevent huge fighter swarms from overtaking you. However, one thing I liked about Shattered Empires is how they kind of "split" the Red tech tree a little. IE, It used to be Hylar V, then DSC as the prereq for most stuff, but now Hylar V goes to DSC and ADT, and DSC's branches tend to be more PDS-related, while ADT's tend to be more ship-related (Assault Cannon, for instance, was moved to ADT's tree). It makes for some interesting decisions now, especially in the early game - do you want to protect yourself with ADT vs Fighters, or Deep Space Cannons to protect your systems from small incursionary fleets (or to help you set up a grid-o-death).

The "stealth" nerf to fighters in the expansion is the reduced production opportunities. There is no more ISC secondary to allow everyone an unrestricted free build. Now only one person per round can do that, and they have to take a Strategy Card to get it. Warfare II also doesn't provide a chance to build again. You'll still see fighters (and should buy them yourself), but it's harder to churn out the buggers in multiple digits every round.

Most games, I'd say about 70-80%, I will pick up ADT. My most common techs are either Stasis or XRD depending on my race, and almost always Hylar and ADT to boost my combat. After that, it's a matter of picking up whatever I can get cheaply without affecting ship production too much. Since most battles have at least a few fighters participating, ADT almost always comes in handy. And it's fun rolling a bucketload of dice, even in small combats!

hm, that's interesting.... SE players: Do you usually go with a full conversion to the alternate strategy cards, or just use Imperial 2?

My group always uses the SE strategy cards. The original strategy cards and imperial II sit in the box.

The only times I've played with the original cards since the expansion was released have been at gencon when they didn't have enough copies of SE.

I'll occasionally swap in the original versions of Diplomacy, Trade, Warfare, or Tech. And once in awhile I'll use the old cards for old times sake. But usually I use the SE cards. In some PBeM games I've done, though, both Warfare options are available - if you choose Warfare, you can choose WHICH one to take, but only one person can have Warfare (so if you pick one, the other is off limits, and does not get a bonus counter).

I almost ALWAYS play with Trade 2 and Tech 2... I feel they are just plain better. I usually play with SE's Leadership/Assembly/Production/Bureaucracy combo, but I'm just as happy doing Initiative/Political/Logistics/Imperial2. Lately I've been using the "Pick which Warfare" card variant Sigma described, which I like very much. I occasionally do this with Diplomacy as well, though more often than not we just stick to Diplomacy 2.

I only ever use all 8 SE cards, and I've never used Imperial II.

I feel they work very well together, so I see no need to start using others.

I like reading articles like this.

I, like others, disagree with your assessment on Dreadnaughts and Destroyers.

I like my quote on DN is this: If a player builds DNs then I assume they are L1Z1x, new to TI3, out of other ships, or have a SO related to DNs.

And Destroyers should always be built when possible.

just in curiosit ,

the Dread arent worth to be build even when u want to invade some planet ? Hiting with 5+ with a bunch of units that hit only with 8+ isnt worth for something ?

(I just played something around 10 games with the expansion , only with 4 players and a expert thats wins everytime )

I presume you are talking about bombardment?

Yes, bombardment is very helpful - however, it doesn't make up for the other failings of the ship (mostly its high cost). For those 5 resources, you could build a carrier with 4 GFs - that would be much more useful for invading a planet. Also, dreadnought bombardment is stopped by any PDS units, so you can't even use it all the time.