Join Vader's Finest in our fourteenth episode as we take on the first of two back-to-back Store Championships in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. This time we attend the Store Championship at Common Ground Games in Dallas.

Our Cantina Corner this week was Lakewood Brewing Co.'s "The Temptress."

We'd like to extend a special thanks to some of our patrons from our Patreon:

Matthew Stewart

Cbris Oakley

"Bugatti" Brad Rollins

JD Bartee

Zach Bunn

Cady Eakin

Brendan Nagle

Tim Blum

Ryan Payne

"Vaclav"

Thanks again for everything you all do!

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Hey I asked this question on Reddit but it doesn't get as much traffic there so I'm posting it here as well.

Did you guys both run Devious Schemes and choose the north east deployment zone in the Cantina on round 1? If so can you explain your reasoning behind that? Same question for round two and choosing the inside deployment zone on Training Ground.

Sorry! Sometimes it's difficult for me to check up on everywhere daily. If you ever want a quicker response, Tweeting at us or messaging us on/posting on our Facebook page will always get you a response within a few hours at the worst.

Regarding your question: I personally choose the Cantina side of the map because it gives me three ways to go right off the bat rather than two. The Terminal placement can be problematic, but sometimes baiting the opponent to extend into the sand rather than the Cantina to interact with my Terminal control is beneficial to me. I personally find holding the Cantina to be what you want to be doing as well, and you can get there almost immediately from that deployment.

I think with the Bantha lists that the doored side of Training Ground is probably correct, but only if you actually intend on cracking the door. I don't always want to do that, and therefore having my opponent waste actions on the door or forcing them to trudge across the map feels correct. You do get almost un-contestable access to the back Terminal from the doored side, however, which is definitely a benefit.

Can you explain what you prefer about the other deployments? Honestly I think "deployment math" is one of our absolute least explored aspects of the game, so we're very open to any arguments here.

I also just want to say that I appreciate how often and articulately you post on our threads and in this subforum in general. Even if you don't necessarily agree with something we've done, I appreciate both the way you phrase it and also that you comment at all. It helps us tremendously.

This has come up in various threads and forums before.

The right Cantina side deployment is generally regarded as far worse. Here's why.

1.

You have to split up your forces.

Splitting up (especially if you have to deploy first via devious scheme) lets your opponent easily tailor his deployment. It makes it easy to react to and you can't really change your plan because sending units back round takes too much time.
A really well balanced list might not have this issue so much... but if you deploy say the twins together on one side... I now know that the otherside is a cake walk.

2.

Further to the above point, anyone standing behind or south of the rocks is basically out of the game for an extra turn. Some support units don't care but if you're running troopers or a bantha that takes up lots of space, it's difficult to get all your guys into the fray. By contrast.... every unit in the front 10 or so squares of the left deployment zone can easily be inside the Cantina or at the south T intersection in 1 turn.

3.

Terminals.

This one is obvious. A guaranteed, safe terminal is a very handy thing. Yes you can bait or trap the bottom one, but a good opponent won't fall for that. They'll be happy with their free command card, while denying yours. There are ways to contest the "safe" terminal on the first turn.... but it's a risky move (eg, officer plus RGC) and it's rarely worth it.

4.

It's a fast map.

Again building on points 1 and 2. Cantina isn't a map you can slow play on. For example, Deception game or Fallout, you can easily claim a terminal and then sit and wait for your opponent. It's a completely different game dynamic. On Cantina, you can't really do that as there's lots of VPs up for grabs. Usually, (especially with devious scheme) I can secure 10VPs from Battlefield engineering with 1 unit of Hired Guns at the start of turn 2. It's quite difficult to stop even if you know it's coming.

5.

Map layout.

This one is arguable but I think in general the left deployment has better line of sight, easier places to hide and slightly better pathing. You really see the difference between speed 4 and 5 units on this map. More so than any of the other current maps. Kuat was a bit like this as well. The deployments were pretty even on that map, but the extra speed was a big deal.

6.

Benefits of left deployment.

So I've pointed out the issues with the right deployment. But what makes the left 1 better? The safe terminal obviously is one thing, but I think the biggest benefit is flexibility. You have so much flexibility in the deployment of your forces. Even if you get initiative and deploy first, it's easy to group everything together in the middle and not give anything away to your opponent. Which way is that RGC going? Which way is that bantha going? You won't know until I move it. That's the beauty of the left deployment. The player on the right has to split his forces and anticipate your moves, but on the left you always get to react to their deployment.
I can set up all my stormtroopers in a big bunch and then have the freedom to move them all down one side, or split up accordingly. Sometimes 4 - 2 instead of 3 - 3. Again reacting to my opponent's deployment. 8 movement isn't always enough to contest all objectives, but it's enough to get everything into position for the next turn. By contrast the right deployment only gives you a little bit of the right side of the Cantina and some exposed parts of the T intersection at the bottom. The problem is, both deployments can ALMOST get to the same spots... but if you got deep from right to left, you're facing the opponent's whole list... if you go deep left to right you're only facing half the list. It's on your terms not theirs, again, you're able to react to the opponents moves.

Here's an illustration about what I mean with positioning.
http://imgur.com/ANYeDok

You can see the right (red) can get a little bit further into the Cantina with Speed 4 (double move) but that only affects Drinks and Dealings.... and It doesn't matter much anyway since you need another action to interact. In the south entrance (sorry the map is rotated here), The left deployment can get in further (and thus can hide in the safer corners). The left deployment also has one safe battlefield engineering objective and 2 contestable ones. While the right deployment has 3 contestable ones. Both of the closer ones are fairly exposed and he one at the south entrance is fairly even with both sides needing a long shot at anyone standing near it.

You can also see how much difference Speed 5 makes on this map. Add two squares to any of the outlined areas.... that's how far a Speed 5 units can double move... you can see it's easy to contest all objectives. But even a speed 5 unit alone can't contest the safe terminal.

Great summary Inquistitorsz. You go almost everything on my mind but I'll just add a couple small points to yours.

The southwest side also has that great piece of cover that ensures anybody wanting a shot at you on round one will have to even farther out of their way to get it off. If you are behind that cover after getting a shot off a unit would have to have move 5 spaces to even get the shot off and then they would be completely out in the open.

Another thing you can do to all but ensure the top terminal won't be contested is move two 4 move units right in front of the entrance to it. Doing this means someone would need 13 movement to get to an adjacent spot to contest it.

A four move unit can take a shot into the cantina on round 1 from the southwest side. Which is especially good if you are running HKs.

Thanks for your response Vader's Finest always love hear your podcasts. We definitely don't have to agree on everything and I think it's a point to how great and relatively open the meta is that we don't always see eye to eye. Any chance you guys are going to be making over to Austin for the regionals there this weekend? I'm a Houston local and will be there for that one and the one in Plano in a couple weeks.

Moving on to Training Grounds I always take the outside deployment zone with the Bantha list regardless of whether I'm opening the door or not. Which I almost never do anyways. Advantages are not as apparent on this this map but again here are a couple off the top of my head.

1. I put a ton of value on terminals especially when running a list with Bantha. Outside deployment zone has a protected terminal that from every game I've ever played on this map has never been contested. It's just too far away and not where the fighting happens. The terminal for the other side can be shot at round one by focused HKs to deny cards to an opponent before the end of the round. It's a 9-10 range shot but definitely possible. And with a Bantha/Gideon list you can use movement shenanigans to make it a 8-9 range shot which is chump change. Can't say how many times I've one or two shotted the unit an opponent throws up to that terminal. Poor R2D2.

2. Both deployment zones are 8 spaces from the middle remote in Reprogrammed but but the outside has a great cover spot one space away after that. With some Bantha movement you can make that only 6 spaces away. So you can either grab that remote early in round two or if you command cards came up right you can get it round one and get into cover very easily. From the other side you leave yourself almost wide open for shots.

3. The way this map plays for me is that most of the fighting either goes on near the inside tile with the terminal on it or if someone opens the door then right near the door. So if the door isn't opened there's a decent chance the inside terminal could be contested at the end of round 2 or 3.

Again the discrepancies don't seem to be as glaring on Training Grounds as they are on Cantina but I'd still take the outside zone just for the terminal.

Yep, agreed on the Training ground points. I don't think the difference is as big but I too prefer the outside deployment zone.... again it gives you the flexibility to spread out near that river in the top right, and a protected terminal.

The inside deployment funnels everything through a choke point unless you open the door.

The door itself is a separate problem.

If you go for the door early, you telegraph to your opponent and they can react accordingly.

If you go for the door too late, you get little benefit out of it since there' won't be anything on the other side anymore.

If you use too many activation to get through it, you leave yourself exposed to counter fire. On average, 3 elite storm troopers with rerolls JUST get through that door in one activation. If you can't do it with one, you better have some amazing unit that's going to follow up the damage.
I think a beast tamer bantha is a nice (but risky) thing to throw through the door... lots of grouped up enemies. Problem is, scum struggle to get through that door quickly. 2 elite HKs can't do it on average (maybe with a reroll) so you almost always have to use two activations. Even two adjacent elite Trandos don't do it in one go.

The best things to get through the door is a the tank (which is pretty sub-par most of the time anyway) and an elite e-web. I think that's some of the cheapest ways to get through the door quick. Two activations are pretty easy with most units but you have to be aware that you're using 25-30% of your list just to open a door. And your opponent will know about it unless you can surprise with squad swarm, strength in numbers or similar.

On Reprogrammed there's really bugger all reason to open the door. On Deception Game you have more time and can set up and wait for the enemy, so opening the door later can give you some movement/escape flexibility.

I haven't played Leia's warzone enough but I think control of the middle tile is key to success... At least on Fallout. There's little reason to go for the objectives if you can't hand them in.

On Constant motion, it's basically the opposite. Fight in the bottom corridor and the rest of the map is just terminal control.

Second the points about Nevarrian War Zone. I haven't had much success going for the objectives on Fallout. Whoever doesn't split their forces and go for the objectives gets the main room can grab the terminals for extra cards and just wait it out for the other player to bring the droids to them. This is only from like 5 runs on that mission though. I like Constant Motion a ton more. Having to split your troops between the hall with the droids and the main rooms for the terminals leads to some good choices.

yep. Side note... where's this weeks Strategy thread, huh?

Just got it posted thanks for the reminder

Do you guys have a way to get in touch with the guy who used the 4 Wookiees, Gideon, C-3PO, Smuggler list? I ran the exact same deployment cards at a store championship a month ago. I'm just curious about what he's using for a Command Deck, since I'm trying to refine the list.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/200425-2016-store-championship-results/page-4#entry2097686

They have a podcast themselves. It's called Mandalorian Tactics. Here's the link https://m.reddit.com/r/ImperialAssaultTMG/comments/4d3luo/mandalorian_tactics_podcast/