E: If this attack deals damage, it is added to your staging area face down during the end phase. This card is considered to be a foundation with a blank text box.

First off i know there is more i'm just refferencing the important stuff.

Alright say i play assassin strike and use its E. The attack deals damage. Then i try to play an attack with like a Combo (Weapon) ability on it. Can i even use the combo?

My question mainly revolves around the timing of this effect. Cause the if then rule doesn't do anything and there is no "Then's" or "and then's". So in my head it goes:

1. Attack deals damage.

2. Attack get added to staging area in the end phase

3. Attack is now a foundation with a blank text box sitting in the card pool

4. Play combo attack

5. Combo looks back to see whats in front of if in the cardpool and sees a foundation

6. No combo effect.

please correct me if i am wrong

i would think its meant to be considered a foundation while in your staging area....but rules is rules and it reads that it becomes a foundation as soon as dmg is dealt....

thats why i hated to bring it up but its one of those things that eventually someone was going to say something about it in a tournament and the world explodes cause no one can agree on an answer so i figured i'd get it out there and hopefully get a stamp on it to make sure

OK my Question is this card and Taki, now the ability on this card and Taki 2 ability is the same. If i use Taki 2 ability on a attack and face down attacks, will the ability still affect the attack even after it resovle? if not, why does Assassin Strike Multiple does?

Okay here is how everything resolves:

Taki E or any other ability that would create a face down foundation out of an attack.

[EDIT] The ability on Assassin Strike is unclear as to certain pronoun linkage, so you go back to the basics. The ability says "..it is added to your staging area face down during the End Phase. This card is considered to be a foundation with a blank text box." The bolded this references back to what card is 'to be' face down, and describes what it will be considered. If it worked vice versa (attack is a blank foundation in the card pool), the the face down card would have no identity when added to the staging area in the End Phase.

So, during the end phase, you begin to clear your card pool. When you go to clear any attack that Taki's E effected, instead of being discarded, or going to momentum, it goes face down as a foundation in the staging area.

If the attack also had an ability that did this, the ability can make it go face down as well. Once a card has been turned face down, any effects still trying to resolve on it fizzle, and you move on.

In the case of multiples, the card is first a face down attack. Then the Taki E goes off, and it becomes a face down foundation, a completely different card. Any other effects fizzle that have not resolved.

-Tinman

EDIT: Forgot some logic in there.

alright so i somewhat agree with you except for these things:

2.0.1 When a card refers to “this card”, it means the card the text is printed on.

2.13.4 After an ability is played, it will resolve as much of itself as it can.

these two things say assassins strike is immediately considered a foundation with a blank text box due to having to resolve as much as possible and "this card" being the card the text is printed on. however if the ability was written correctly like taki is i would agree with you.

Taki.

E: If this attack deals damage, add it to your staging area face down as a blank foundation during the end phase.

the major difference is the period in the effect on assasins strike creates a new independent effect that can resolve after the attack deals damage.

Thank u thats alsome, though so she very good the way ive been playing here

With the current logic that a face down card is suddenly a different card, AS really should have read "That card" rather then this card. Otherwise Tinman's logic is entirely sound.

aslum.... i hope you do realize that by taking the "this card" logic out of tinman's argument his argument is invalid as it comes to assassin's strike. And not to be misunderstood i do understand that the way i say the card works makes it so AS is just a blank face down card in the staging area at the end phase due to flipping it face down makes it forget it was anything. I am simply pointing out that this card was severely misworded

hey guys would u go check out yoshimitsu deck i posted and tell me what u think about it, ill explained in it if u dont get it.

dragoku said:

It should say "that card" rather then "this card" because when it flips face down it's becoming a different card, so no, it doesn't undue his logic, and in point of fact for his logic to actually work the card would have to have the "that" rather then "this". As soon as the card flips upside down "this card" no longer exists, it becomes a different card.

You have to think in future tense. The term "This card" isnt refering to itself in the present as an attack in your card pool. It's refering to it's future state once it flips face down in the end phase. Just because it doesn't say "This card WILL become" or "That card," doesn't mean you can try to take it out of context.

The trick to working things out is to not over/misuse the term logic. The english language is an imperfect beast. It's chalk-full of clauses,exceptions and misnomers. You could argue with your college english professor till the cows come home about the validity of the text in Assassin's Strike, but one truth remains. We know the intended purpose of the card, to remain an attack in the card pool and turn into a foundation in the end phase.

the problem is when the first line after the golden rules in the AGR says: "2.0.1 When a card refers to “this card”, it means the card the text is printed on and not any other copies."

the problem with this card is that anyone that has been involved with this forums much at all over the history of UFS will agree that the card was worded incorrectly with the rules we have. kinda like kulutues.

because of some of the things in the rules, there are always cards in new sets that dont work the way they were intended. the fact is, since theyre effects seperated by a period, and worded the way they are, once the attack deals damage the attack is considered a foundation with a blank text box according to the AGR

the English language isn't our rulebook

So then we are in agreement. Assassin's Strike, when using the enhance, creates a blank foundation in the card pool when it deals damage. Then, in the End Phase, that blank foundation gets put face down in the staging area as NOTHING, and we continue playing. Makes perfect sense. Glad its a rare, because that is really overpowered. As a Nothing card, it cannot be targeted by most, if any effects, cannot be used to pay costs, cannot be committed to make checks, etc. This is exactly what the game developers wanted in a card.

-Tinman

really the only honest question, is when does it become a foundation.

I would say when it drops down and flips over. The "this card" is referring to the flipped version of the card.

Also if you really want to blow your mind. The last sentence is "each of this attacks multiple copies also gains this enhance".

Now, going back to the spinning demon ruling, anything after "If" only happens once the dmg is dealt. So after damage is dealt, according to some above posters, the card becomes a foundation. THEN it references the "multiple copies of this ATTACK"......woah....my head is exploding!!! Thats a real conundrum.

Let's be realistic.

1. damage is dealt.

2. Multiple copy gains enhance.

3. Move on with turn.

4. When turn ends, attack drops down as a face down foundation. Up until the resolution of this effect, the card is considered to be an attack.

On a side note, since in a way thats what this is, did FFG ever say officialy that splits are gone?

How about 6 control foundations?

alright i seem to be making people aggravated. I want to clarify that i agree with all of you on how assassin's strike SHOULD work and i am merely pointing out that the card is worded completely wrong to work that way. sadly enough i'm also the one that pointed out that kulutes* doesn't work either in ziephnir's reference. Sorry guys

my main point is that why couldn't they word all of taki's support like her effect.... same problem on ninja cannon: fury and some of her other support.... it actually takes less effort to word it as "add it to your staging area face down as a blank foundation"