The actual wording is "The Moritat distain many modern weapons as crude and spiritually unfulfilling, prefering instead the sacred edge of the blade."

I'm guessing that weapons that make the sacred edge of the blade even more deadly are pretty **** spiritually fulfilling.

I'm also tired of arguing against a cut-and-paste version of the background package which exists only inside your heads, so please do not selectively remove words from your quotations.

Does a power field count as a blade edge?

In my view it is a projected energy field, not a blade edge. It can be shaped to be blade like, but it can also be shaped to cover an armored fist, claw, hammer, or whatever else someone can come up with. Since it's not a physical blade edge, I can justify them not being able to manipulate the power field in the same way that causes the tearing effect on a physical blade.

To put the discussion to rest I went ahead and sent in the matter to FFG's rules questions department. Here's what Ross Watson said:

No, the assassin does not need to test willpower to use a power sword or power axe.

I think that settles it. Moritat assassins can use power swords and power axes without having to take the WP test, BUT they do not get to benfit from tearing when using these weapons (as I said all along).

Well, if those are his rulings, then errata is required, because they contradict each other.

Katsue said:

In my opinion, power weapons just seem to fall into a grey area. However, I've noticed thatn when trying to work out inconsistencies like these you can't just stare yourself blind at game mechanics, but you'll also have to take an in-game and fluffbased look at it as well.

Also you could look at it this way, let's say you have a moritat assassin originating from a primitive culture (like a Feral World), and who doesn't have any knowledge of the technology that powers a power weapon. The Assassin is indoctrinated into the moritat so it knows that it can only use weapons with blades, but not weapons that go "boom boom" or blunt melee weapons etc. Said assassin picks up a power sword and somehow discovers the "on" button. The blade fizzles and crackles and the primitive assassin think "ooh, shiny! Im keeping this. It has a blade after all so it's okay according to my religion", not knowing that the weapon could be considered infinitely more "modern" than any other sword that the assassin has ever used.

To him, it's a sword. Granted a sword that somehow seems to be able to slice through armour with ease, but still, it's just a sword.

There really no inconsistancies as written. The Power Sword is an edged weapon, the Mortitat likes using it and knows how to use it in a manner which grants Tearing mechanically.

There are inconsitencies if you abritrarily decide that a Power Field means that it doesn't cut in a way that the Mortitat can use for some reason. Likewise, Watson's ruling blatantly contradicts the current rules text.

The inconsistancies and problems with a Mortitat getting tearing with a Power Sword exist only in your head. Stop posting your rationalizations of them. If Ross wants to issue eratta, more power to him.

Although his ruling, if erattaed, would simply lead to every GM having to give their Mortitat a Lathe Blade and/or a Fractal Blade or watch them be badly underpowered against the few things that the Bloody Edge makes them almost competitive with a guy using two autopistols against, but anyhow...

Hodgepodge said:

Uhm, what "competition" are you refering to?

When the characters are in-game there is no such thing as a competition or being "competative" with people using autopistols. In fact, if the assassin in question disdain uing firearms or other weapons that would most of the time be more effective than swords or power sword then that assassin only has him/herself to blame if he/she happen to get gunned down by a thug with two autopistols.

If the player choose to play an assassin that would refuse to use certain weapons then fine, that's the players choice. But the GM is in no way to feel constrained that the game has to be competetively "balanced" at all.

Real life doesn't have any "game balance" and neither should a fictional setting...

Hodge, no offence, but you are arguing round and round in circles. Using the official "Rules Questions" button at the bottom of the page, you can ask for "official" rulings from the developers. This would make Ross' statement that they don't suffer the WP test, and they don't gain the Tearing trait for power weapons, entirely official. You can argue against it all you want, but it doesn't change those facts.

Also, suggesting the problem is "in our heads", and to stop it, is tantamount to insulting us and our intelligence, and I'm fairly certain that isn't allowed on these forums.

Players are not in "competition" with each other to cause the most damage, and if they are in your games, then I feel sorry for you, because it must get dull having players constantly trying to "out-DPS" each other.

There is not intended to be any "balance" between ranged weapons and melee weapons, because to have that would be crazy. Ranged weapons are better than melee weapons in a fight the majority of the time. This is a fact. The "Bloody Edge" trait is just a cool plus, it's in no way meant to close the gap totally, just give them a cool bonus for picking the background. It is perfectly reasonable to have them not be able to apply the Tearing trait to power weapons because the edge has nothing to do with the weapon's practical application in combat. It could be a blunt stick, and the power-field would still let it cut through things like butter.

So please, stop targetting us with your arguments. We were happy discussing the point, and then recieved official clarification. You seem to be taking the argument personally, or worse, making the argument a personal one.

I'm sorry if I worded that in a derogatory fashion. My point stands that based on the actual words printed in BI and FFG releases, there is no reason that anyone would conclude that Mortitat do not benefit from The Bloody Edge with Power Weapons. That conclusion has two possible sources: 1) interpretations of the nature of Power Weapons which are rather arbitrary and based on at best contradictory fluff, 2) Ross' ruling, which is not grounded in presently printed material.

The first is a rather convoluted and awkward path to saying "no" to an otherwise straightforward player decision.

The other requires erratta to come into effect for players who have not read this specific thread, because it cannot possibly be dervived from the actual printed rules. That is, of course, that his decision is not revised prior to the release of eratta.

In the first case, I would say that I'm not inclined to diminish a player's enjoyment of the game by forbidding obvious choices using obscure and contentious interpretations of background material. Unless they are Adepts who just flubbed a Scholarly Lore (Bureaucracy) test, of course ;-)

In the case of Ross' ruling, I think that it would add little to the game if added as erratta, but I nevertheless respect his judgement in the matter and understand that it may reflect factors such as planned additions to the game which I don not have access to.

As for balance, it has been mentioned a few times that the trait may be too powerful and I wished to register the opinion that it was not, but that changing it to not work with Power Weapons might make it too weak. Since you don't consider this a potential problem either way, there's no reason to get into further details about it.

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to jump in and remind everyone that while it's perfectly fine to debate rules, don't let a friendly argument become personal attacks.

I also wanted to add a bit of clarification. The Moritat trains its operatives extensively in the use of bladed weapons—knives, swords, and the like. That is why they get tearing with them—they know how to precisely apply a blade to a living target in order to do the most damage. In addition, using other weapons (such as guns) is anathema to their training. Hence the Willpower Test.

Power weapons, however, occupy a bit of a grey area. A power sword certainly does not lack an 'edge.' It in many ways is a sword, and so the Moritat dogma does not proscribe it. A Moritat can use the weapon without making the Willpower Test—although traditionally the Cult encourages the 'traditional' bladed weapons, it recognizes that sometimes you simply need the most effective tool for the job.

However, power weapons do not get the Tearing quality. This is because although a power sword may fit with all the definitions of a sword in regards to Moritat dogma, it does not behave like a sword when carving through flesh. The power field on the sword (or knife, or axe) is what is doing all the work, violently disrupting flesh and bone and allowing a power weapon to cut through armour plating like a hot knife through butter (pardon the cliche). That very lack of 'subtlety' and precision, however, means a Moritat can't use a power weapon in the 'surgical' manner he or she uses standard edged weapons.

Or in other words, consider a master marksman. He goes to the shooting range with a semi-automatic pistol, and puts an entire clip into the bullseye of a target. Then, he reaches into his case and pulls out a 12-gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot, and shots the same target again. Did he hit the bullseye? Well, it's kind of hard to tell considering the entire target is now full of holes.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Thanks Sam, appreciate you coming down here to explain it yourself!

Thanks for the detailed clarification, Sam. As I've been saying, an errata would really help in this case.

Also, if you don't mind answering a few more questions:

I've been assuming that even if this is the case, Mortitat can still benefit from Tearing using the Fractal Blade in Rogue Trader, because despite its power field, it deals Rending damage and very explicitly still damages by cutting. Is this the case?

Likewise, the Ghost Sword in the same source is much less clear- it seems to be a straightforward alien version of the Power Sword stat-wise, but its description actually reflects a high-quality sword which is primarily intended to cut rather than an Imperial-Style Power Weapon.

Obviously, as a GM I can simply hand out an appropriate Lathe Blade to a Mortitat when I feel the time is right (which actually has the advantage of being able to benefit from being Blessed), but options are nice, as is clarification.

If he doesn't reply here, you can always ask them via the form here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_faq.asp

Will do, but I'll give him awhile since he may not have had time to check in again.

Hi everyone,

As to your question, Hodgepodge, I think when you start getting into Exotic Weapons the GM should be the final arbitrator (since each Exotic Weapon is, by nature, a unique case). However, were I running a game where it came up, I would say yes, the Moritat would get Tearing with a Fractal blade, as it is not covered with a power field (and, as you noted, does Rending damage). It's Power Field Quality is based on its unique composition. The Ghost Sword, however, does have a Power Field (as evidenced by both dealing E damage and having the Power Field Quality). So I'd say no Tearing there.

A side note to everyone, if you have a question for Ross or myself, the forums are not a good way to get in touch with us. Most of our attention is directed towards our projects.

You're the man Sam. Thanks for taking time to come clear this up.

Thanks again for the clarification. I think the Mortitat player in my game wanted the bloodymindedness of Rending crits anyhow, so I guess this is a good excuse to put some appropriate weaponry in his path. Of course, I'm not limited to weaponry that the Emperor would approve of, either...