So, I was running a trial combat between two ships to see how they fared off and the pseudo-PCs mounted a Hit-and-Run on the enemy. So far so good, they got in and took out the auspex. But what happens next?

The action says that if the opposed Command test is failed, the invaders retreat back to their shuttle-craft and then main ship. But what happens when the attackers win? Do they run away anyway, or stay behind and wreak more havoc?

On the one hand, it makes sense for them to stay and break stuff. On the other, with the +10% bonus, barracks/murder servitors and the Rogue Trader leading them a boarding party goes through an enemy ship like a multi-melta through gretchin. It seems a little too powerful.

If we do let them stay, there's a second issue. With the sensors out and a profit-fuelled engine of destruction making his way through the ship, if seemed prudent for the enemy to flee. A raider running from almost any other ship pretty much kidnaps the boarding party. While hilarious, and an interesting plot device, it might discourage the party from invading too often,

Thoughts?

The raiding party bugs out even after succeeding, that's why it's called a hit & run. You don't take a few dozen guys (even murder servitors) to board a ship with 20,000 people and expect to stay alive once they realize where you are. Heck, even a successful raid probably gets a lot of your grunts killed. Staying to slug things out is suicide.

And seriously, H&R is already good enough. Letting them stay onboard would just make them stronger, as it lets them avoid making the piloting tests to get aboard in the first place.

I'd second the above post. it's a Hit and RUN, not a Hit and Camp Out. Just because you and a few hard-cases made it aboard a ship and survived for 20 some odd minutes doesn't mean your golden, it just means they're marshaling their forces to really take care of you. With a hit and run, you're using surprise and stealth to your advantage. They don't know where you'd be coming from or where you'll be going, but hang around long enough, and they'll figure it out and have time to actually organize a strike team to take you out -after all, with a hit and run, as the name would suggest, you're hitting them with a small mobile force and then getting the hell out before they could respond properly. It's like you're attacking a sleeping bear with a pen knife. If you're fast enough and the bear is groggy enough, you just might stab him to death if you keep moving but if that bear ever has time to wake up enough to figure out what you;re ding and to hit you before you can run away and wait for it to go back to sleep, you'll be nice neat strips of meat in no time. Hit and Run -you get in, then you get the hell out again before they can respond properly and wipe you from the face of the universe.

St. Jimmy said:

Considering the fact that a boarding party usually consists of far less than 100 people, and that even the smallest of ships are crewed by thousands it wouldn't be wise to stay on the vessel you're conducting the H&R on. That's why boarding parties go in, plant bombs at vital locations and then pull out, with as minimal fighting as possible (they might have to get into a firefight with a few of the enemy shipratings and guards, but the raiders wouldn't engage in a prolonged pitched battle with them).

So, regardless of the result, the attackers will pull out and run away.

Varnias Tybalt said:

It's also important to pull out so that you can set those bombs off - the ones that likely do much of the damage from a H&R - without killing your own men!

Certainly for PC it's not an option to stay, but with NPC groups like the Necrons, the Slaugth, or the like. They might just start at one side of the ship and start kicking ass and breaking thing all the way to the other.

Certainly for PC it's not an option to stay, but with NPC groups like the Necrons, the Slaugth, or the like. They might just start at one side of the ship and start kicking ass and breaking thing all the way to the other.

Necrons, Temple Assassins and possibly Space Marines? Maybe, though I wouldn't use the normal Hit&Run rules for those anyway. Everything else? No.
I'd consider a boarding party that stays on the vessel they hit&not-run pretty much dead meat. If they're really good, they might manage a second target, but there's just too much a ship commander can do to a small boarding party once he has them pinned down - and venting the atmosphere from the component they occupy is just one of them.

Cifer said:

Good hit and run teams have their own life support (power armour is good for this and - oddly enough - the 1d5 hours of battery life will be long enough for H&Rs) and they are the ones forcibly venting atmosphere to make it more difficult on the defenders.

HappyDaze said:

But what if the defenders break out their kits of power armour on board and counter with the same thing?

The situation would still be the same. The raiding team are simply too outnumbered to last long enough to actually stay for another strategic turn. They will be slaughtered. Not only are the odds stacked against them in terms of sheer numbers, but they are also intruding on an enemy vessel that is controlled at a bridge that is impossible to reach. They could very well subject the enemy raiding party to all manner of nasty situations just by pressing some buttons (like crushing them under rapidly closing blast doors, electrifying the floor, overloading gas pipes so they shoot out burning gas etc. etc.)

Good hit and run teams have their own life support (power armour is good for this and - oddly enough - the 1d5 hours of battery life will be long enough for H&Rs) and they are the ones forcibly venting atmosphere to make it more difficult on the defenders.

I fully assume that they've got void suits, but that doesn't mean they'll be completely immune to the tiny problem of, well, being sucked out into the void.

Cifer said:

They will need to open a hole in the hull to get into the ship. If they make the hole big enough they can also vent the room(s) they are entering, thus removing the crew inside and preventing themselves being sucked out later.

If they make the hole too small they are going to have to fight the escaping air just to get inside, meaning they can't get in until the wind is slow enough for them to handle.

I agree that staying on board an enemy vessel after a Hit & Run is pretty daft, but I also don't like forcing the PCs to leave because the rules say so. Here's my solution:

If the hit & run team elects to stay on the enemy ship and attempt further attacks, use a modification of the Boarding rules on page 205 to resolve the attacks. Specifically, the commanders make an opposed Command test. The defending commander gets +10 to his Command test for every 10 points difference in crew population, treating the invader's population as 0. If the defenders succeed, the boarding party is captured or killed, as appropriate. If the attackers somehow succeed, they inflict 1d5 crew and morale damage or 1 hull damage as normal for a boarding action, followed by a Morale check. A new check is made every strategic round until the boarding party fails or manages to cause enough mayhem that the defending crew surrenders.

If the PCs attempt such action on a healthy enemy they are for all intents and purposes doomed as the opponent will have a +80 or more on the opposed Command check. However, it is possible that a skilled and lucky attacker (with multiple stacked bonuses) could somehow overcome the odds and defeat a crew of thousands, securing the enemy ship and, more importantly, a place in legend.

Bilateralrope said:

Generally the boarders either use an airlock or connect their own airlock and blow/cut a hole.

Pugnus said:

If you're gonna do that then you should also include a risk of dying for the PC leading the H&R. According to the rules as written, failing the opposed Command test during an H&R doesn't mean that the Player Character and his raiders are all killed, but merely that they fail in securing their objective and have to run back o the boarding craft and pull out. (the only chance of actually dying comes during the initial piloting test where a set amount degress of failure where the boarding craft get's shot down by enemy turrets).

The way I see it, the reason why a standard Hit and Run can only last one strategic turn and not be a prolonged affair is because the boarders have a limited window of opportunity to conduct their attack, and they have to secure their boarding craft in order to make a quick escape once the team have completed their objective (this is why failing the Command check doesn't mean a risk of death for the PC leading it). But if they linger for too long (meaning longer than one strategic turn), their assault craft is likely to get swarmed by enemy defenders and their means of escape will be severely compromised.

So if you're gonna let players stay onboard the enemy vessel for longer during an H&R, then you really should include a degrees of success based risk of being either killed or captured by the enemy, if they fail the Command test (which they most likely will do if they go up against an opposed Command test with the penalties you mention).

Agree with the other posters (Varnius and them), Hit and Run is exactly what it sounds like, get in, blow something up, get out and back to ship safe. Prolonged ship to ship combat is done via boarding, which requires either nuzzling up tight ship to ship and going all out, or having something like Gazkhul's ship and being able to tellyporta thousands of troops right aboard the enemy ship from afar. I'm pretty sure the current teleportarium rules are only used for hit & runs as it stands now because you can't fit enough people to make a viable boarding action into one.

IF your PC's wanted to land on ship and make it a hit & rampage, I'd run it as an adventure unto itself, dodging patrols and defenders, sneaking and killing their way around ship and trying to survive guerilla tactics style. Most ships are enormous with plenty of room to hide if there are few enough of you, which is balanced out by if there's only a few of you, and you get caught, you'll suffer quickly. Even space marines, while they may take while to die due to attrition, on a ship crewed by 20,000 people, some of them are bound to get lucky or smart enough to rig traps, etc, enough to kill them.