Smazzurco said:

If anyone wants to randomly build a Xianghua with off-symbol stuff on the off-chance that one of her attacks deals damage and she happens to have the foundation in hand, more power to them, honestly. The element of surprise should be her strong point.

Tagrineth said:

Tagrineth said:

No. What I am saying is that a character who can play ANY card, regardless of symbols, may be able to use some card interactions that are otherwise a lot more difficult to do.

I agree its a stretch but being able to 3 foundations into your staging area T1 that share no symbols can definately bend the game a little.

I belive the topic was "Cards to keep an eye on" not "cards that are broken". IMO keep an eye on Xianghua because she will do things that are a little more against the grain and not as straightforward.

I said it before, but i'll say it again. I am NOT calling for action to be taken...for a ban...or even for an errata....I am simply stating that she is the character that i think a thoughtful deckbuilder could really do some interesting things with.

I also said that IF a card from this set was to get errata or ban (how many have wee seen in 5 point?) I could see it being Xianghua. Not because of the current cardpool or what she is currently doing, but i think it is only a matter of time before someone does something.

If you want to keep trying to put words in my mouth go ahead, cause i did not see once where i badmouthed James or said I had no faith in him. To me, Xia is the most interesting character currently, because she can basically work around the rules.

And what does James and current playtesters have to do with legacy?

Then again, maybe you are right. Maybe i am wrong and I don't know what my opinion is.

If you want to say something intelligent and move the discussion along, go right ahead.

"I also said that IF a card from this set was to get errata or ban (how many have wee seen in 5 point?) I could see it being Xianghua. Not because of the current cardpool or what she is currently doing, but i think it is only a matter of time before someone does something."

Come on, I can't be the only one getting that vibe from this statement. "They're probably going to **** up and release some jank combo that will make X need a ban or errata", is basically how I'm reading this. I can't be the only one.

well that is not at all what i meant.

Thats part of the internet, you have to magically hear peoples tone and also be a mindreader.

The cardpool right now is really small. The cardpool will get larger. With a larger cardpool more "things" can be done. These things individually may not be broken or have any detrimental effect on the game.

Also as far as interaction, sometimes the only way to play 2 cards is to multi-symbol. This "slows" a deck down because of chaining.

Take a character that can get around symbol chaining, throw in a little bit of a character that can play cards completely off symbol, and a larger than average handsize (i know the vit is an issue) and there is a lot of potential.

Now, since I am not a mindreader, i do not know if James original idea was for Xia to off symbol cards or if it was a typo/oversight.

A perfect example is kisheri...he never intended her (to the best of my knowledge) to be able to react to playing a card, reversals, etc.

I assume Xia was intended to be more "open" and able to play things off symbol.

Since the thread is things to keep an eye out on, i say keep an eye on Xia, because an intelligent deckbuilder is gonna do something with her that makes people go "whoa".

This may or may not call for action to be taken. But, looking at how great a job James has done so far, (as far as having to ban/errata cards), if SOMETHING is to get a change...i see it as Xia. People whined about Financial Troubles, etc, and they are balanced. The new sets are very well balanced. There is a VERY SLIM chance of anything needing to be changed....but if something was to be changed in the future with a current card, I would say there is a decent chance its Xia.

Are you guys really arguing over Xianghua?

The best thing she CAN do is play Playful as she's setting up the Waterfall. Does this mean people won't randomly tack Ka Techniques in her? Can't promise that, but in a deck where you can't even BLOCK with Ka Technique, isn't the risk larger than the reward? And that's always going to be the case, whether X tries to play For The Money, Ka Technique or Maniacal Laughter or whatever!

Does she have the "broken" factor? She could, but any combos that result from cards that she can't play to begin with, or tri-symbol decks, are already at a disadvantage of losing consistency. I'm not worried one bit.

But why are you even bringing up the possibility of X being errataed or banned if you don't think it'll happen? :|

Also, X isn't really that much "faster" at multi-symboling. Oh look, her opponent blocked. Now that card is nearly unplayable.

Also she'd point-blank flat-out unquestionably auto-lose to Lu Chen that way.

Wowza, calm down folks. I read Tag's post and thought it was a bit below the belt / (overly defensive on James and playtesters behalf)... It is possible to read into what Smazz wrote as Tag interpreted- "this is a can of worms card, and surely the designers will design worms"+

But it was actually kind of rude for Tag to make that assmuption, and about someone like Smazz who doesn't have a history of 'the sky is falling' posts...

Meh, whatever my opinion on etiquette is, it is neither here nor there. For the record though, and on topic, I agree with Smazz that she will be used and with growing sucess. I don't think she will receive ban or errata ever though.

We have also seen Reaction's thread go astray, and on that topic I agree with his 5 cards except for Unrefined, I think in 'very' few decks it will be useful, most of them not so much.

- dut

Honestly the only reason I think she'll be errated is because most of the cards that allow for Immovable Object to be played mention "that you could normally play".

Tagrineth said:

A couple things, Tag...and Smazzurco...of COURSE there is a possibility of ANY card EVENTUALLY getting the erratta or ban. I mean, c'mon...Promo Hugo wasn't even on the map until Fortune and Glory got released. He was a 3hs character, if you'll recall. But it was F&Gs ability to make his opponent's play as 3hs-ers, too, that really put Hugo over the top.

So, could Xianghua eventually need an errata or ban...sure, it's within the scope of possibility. However, as Smazzy also pointed out, it's more likely NOT going to need to happen, as James has really been on-point with these Sets; i mean, we are all acknowledging the blessing and benefit of having him as lead Set-Designer/Creative Think-Tank, etc...etc...

So, please, let's keep the assumptions to a minimum, and simply go by what what actually writ in these threads.

My own OPINION on Xianghua is that she is certainly meant to be run dual-symbol. She is a Tempo character who can build her Staging Area without needing to chain symbols. So, this means she can play attacks with SymbolX while building her area with SymbolY. I DO believe that she was intended to have her abilities as-is.

Getting back on topic. Here are my top 5 to keep an eye on...

Amaryllis Spin - it is a nice form and the static text gives you a psuedo +2 more speed. Also it makes your attacks faster with Amy.

Contemplating: There are to many cards this combos with. Pavilion+ Yoshimitsu the weapon this gets sick. Not to forget ZD can use this in her death build. Tira's attacks that do additional damage and evil mist comes to mind as other cards that benefit from this card.

Flea : I see people playing this card as a block and make the for the moneys be a lot more costly and it makes positive card gain harder. This has the potential to shutdown Frantic Search. Also Leader of the Manjitou with this card makes it so that your opponent will loose hand if they attempt to gain cards.

Loves her Blade: Life Ivy's best friend if she didn't kill on her turn. Also not all deck use a lot of momentum. This will help momentum cards be useful.

Master of Ninjitsu: The card that will be broken so bad its not funny. You will see death or void throws with this card. Its going to get brutal. This card is intended for throws. So watch some sick damage happen.
Inhuman Speed - this card will make it so that combos can go off a lot easier. I think that people will do their best to abuse this card.

Contemplating is just plain awesome in my book. Unless I'm wrong you can react after any attack deals damage, correct? Thats how it was ruled here at least

darklogos said:

Throws? Yes, but...

Hilde o_O

The question is will a Hilde player give up playing all that is fire for the advantages of Master of Ninjitsu and any other of Order's new cards. I think not. Maybe a splash in or a side board maybe but not main boarded.

Bone Crusher is probably the best common attack in the set. I'm seriously awed by it.

darklogos said:

Why not, may I ask? It's not just Master of Ninjitsu , after all. Not Human , Ostreinsburg Castle Throne Room , Triple Botta in Tempo , and Amaryllis Spin are available here too (and they are SEXY), and a lot of cards share Fire and Order , so you get to keep The Ultimate Team (sick with Amy* 's stuff), Hammer of the Gods (ditto), Lightning Horn , Pommel Smash , Siren's Call , etc., etc., etc. I think Order really is the way to go for Hilde* now. The only cards that would make me still want to run Fire Hilde are:

Paid to Protect -> This one you will miss, no question about it. Splash ftw?

ShadoWar -> -2 damage on a 3/5 +3H? Not all that great, especially 'cause that free pump applies to very few of the attacks Hilde* is eyeing nowadays.

Stand Off -> A debuff that can be canceled? Not all that great unless you run Stun up the wazoo, which is not the purpose here.

LordAggro said:

I got a chance to test a proxied version of the Hilde deck as it is posted, sans Sacrifices for the Cause (which IS going in there to deal with PtP), and 29M25 damage Hammers that if they deal damage they'll lose 3? Master of Ninjitsu FTW...

Inhuman Speed... I lovezah this caaad. And, yeah, it makes any deck's kill turn that much easier. Brutal in decks whose characters have built in speed pump (i'm looking at you Mitsu, Amy, and Mr. Fox...).

Looking for a Thrill... I love how speed decks now have more damage pump in the form of Mitsurugi support. Christie Monteiro thanks Senor 'Rugi for this card in particular.

Quick Exit... Funny enough, but i traded my copy away BEFORE reading the stats and effect of this card, and realizing just what it did. DOH!!

*Taki... She and her support are one of two characters that reintroduce the idea of Tempo being an important play-aspect of this game. Taki builds faster than most other characters, and she makes her opponent's staging area matter a whole heckuva lot less to her by turning SELECTED foundations into BLANK foundations. She blanks foundations faster than a certain Egyptian Phaoroh we all know and love.

*Mitsurugi... Soon to be appearing EVERYWHERE at any and all tournaments. Welcome to the ring the new face of Aggro, the Misty-Steppin', Fire-Brand'in Sultan of Slice...Mitsurugi!!! This beat stick will be a major competitor in the upcoming year/s, and is fast enough to cut through a lot of whatever Control is out there by T2. Built in speed and damage pump, check. Sees his deck faster than other deck, check. Beefy vitality, check. Awesome support, check....yeah...

RockStar said:

Sorry to hear that bro...especially since it wasn't to me.

That's a card I wouldn't pay for, but it's also a card I wouldn't trade away if I had less than a playset, unless of course you somehow got a Knight Breaker or something crazy like that for it.