Sex, love & romance; how do you handle it?

So it`s soon time to start a new warhammer campaign for this edition, and I bet many GMs and player alike are itching to start out. Some GM like me, also think of what elements they will include in the game, like violence, numbers of fights, grittiness, darkness and other elements that make up the warhammer setting, what about sex, love & romance… how mature will the game be?

I know this is a sensitive topic, but I am also sure we can handle it in a mature way, without offending anyone in particular. So please no excessive details.

But how do you handle sex, romance and love in your warhammer games? Do they play any significant role in your campaigns, or is it simply a background best not to be explored?
I suspect the great majority of warhammer roleplayers are male, and most groups are males only, with a few exceptions where mostly one or two players bring along their girlfriend or wife. I could be wrong I once had the odd experience of GMing for a group consisting of only females in vampire (they knew the rules and had very defined PCs).
During my years as active GM I have played with many groups beside my regular group, and even attended as GM at CONs. Some players avoid these themes totally, others are more keener to at least explore and delve into these matters either with caution or impunity. Sometimes I have been caught off-guard by the demands of some players, like “ I want to check out the red-light district of Altdorf what do I see? ” How do I respond, what do I say to such comments?

variation in techniques : Fading out...
When handling such adult matters, I use several techniques on dealing with them. My one favorite is the fading out. A part of may be role-played but then it fades to the background leaving most to the player`s imagination. When I pick up again I might add some description of how it might have been like. Example: Your priest wakes up in the middle of the night by a soft knock on the door. There is a soft grunt from one of the gypsy girls in your bed, but they are still in heavy sleep, sprawled out, exhausted.. On your way over to the door, wrapped only in sheets, you almost stumble on an empty wine-jug, images of a pleasant night with companionship still shifts through your head, and the body feels sore. Who could it be that would disturb you in the middle of the night?
The player in question, who went for a young disillusioned Sigmar priest, where very pleased by this outcome. He smiled happily for the rest of that evening, even though he had to pry the sewers of Marienburg just minutes after answering the door.

But I have also explored the darker aspect of love, which is destructive love . And I have seen how players have come corrupted in their ways of finding salvation.

Don`t overdo it, the party should not be subjected to listening to sexual fantasies that a player might have.
I almost never initiate a flirt with my npcs but I am soon to pick up the notes if my players seems to wish for something. As a male I find it difficult to portray women that are being flirted with by my players. So I usually end up with saying something like this: She respond well to your charming ways, and move closer to you even put her hand on your knee and, brushing her hair close to your face.
I actually don`t like to talk in first person when this happens, and move to a third person telling technique. But it works okay.

The sex addicted Halfling, oh the comedy oh the tragedy! gone is my innocence!
But sometimes one of my players wants to just have sex, even going to seek the service of a prostitute. What to do then? How far do I go? In one particular case, a player Halfling who discovered that you could pay gold to certain tall-women and experience something that he never had done before and became addicted to it. He loved having sex with tall-women , as he referred to humans. He even got percentages off for being small size, (he he) he didn`t understood that part, and was thrilled of the fact that they were so nice to him. So every city or town the party came to, he instantly searched for these women. Instead of just letting him relief himself for gold, I incorporated his addiction into the story, in one case he stumbled upon the rumours of a missing prostitute while visiting the area. He soon got embroiled with a sinister slaanesh cult that was behind the abduction and killing of several unfortunate women. They also replaced the killed prostitutes with their own members to further spread the taint of chaos.

Now I have told you a bit how I handle these things. How do you handle sex, love & romance in your game?

I rarely address such things in my game. The players are usually too busy fighting for their lives or trying to figure out the latest challenge to worry about sex.

Romance and such are usually reserved for NPC interactions as the story demands.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7521044027821122670# the whole thing is funny, but in particular to this guys post 1:10 is the most relevant part of the video pertaining to romance and such in an RPG ENJOY

For sex I generaly use the interaction part as part of the story if its pertinent and use the old fade to black aspect for everything else, if its not so important to the story the lot gets sumed up in a few paragraphs, or like alot of the town transactions its handled much the same (generaly in the case of prostitution).

Romance and Love on the other hand I take on a case by case basis, while usually it fades into the background (PCs are often busy people), from time to time I will use it like I will any part of a character's background, like friends, family, old colleagues and that kind of thing. I have even had children show up in extended campaigns.

Rarely has it happened between characters (usualy character & NPC), so I have no real formal way of dealing with that either.

Not usual topics in any games I've run (or played in, for that matter), but in those occasions where the group is receptive, I've often played romantic (or lustful) interests for humor or as atmospheric supporting elements. The most long-term groups I've played with haven't been the types of games that allow for romantic (or lustful) entanglements.

Most groups I'm playing with these days are a mix of male and female, of all ages and tastes. It would be a challenge to approach sex, love, and/or romance with such varied groups and have it be interesting, or not too focused on one character or another. Outside of backstory, atmosphere, or NPC relationships as backdrops, at least.

It occasionally comes up in my games. Romance and political drama are often two sources of conflict to break up combat. Normally however, it's something fairly lightharted, like a bar wench has fallen in love with one of the players, or the wife of a lord is showing an interest, do you dare get yourself involved in what could be a lethal affair?

The one thing I normally do is make a player make a vigor / staminia / whatever works for the system roll because when the character fails and doesn't "perform" up to standards, the group finds that the funniest **** thing in the world. And when the character succeeds well he earns a reputation he can't get rid of.

Mal Reynolds said:

Yes, when my players want to have sex, I tend to solve it that way as well. And indeed, it seems to satisfy them. I guess they just like the sense of conquest or something:-)

Mal Reynolds said:

Oh, that's good... I'll keep that in mind. I can't tell you how stupid I've felt actually roleplaying the part of a woman being hit on by one of my PCs. I don't put on an effeminate voice or anything, as that would just be really offensive and stupid. So I try to behave like a normal woman would, and it's just weird and disturbing. Often, I'll have the woman refuse the PC's advances, especially if she's of higher standing than he is. The character's humiliation can lead to huge laughs from the player, and myself of course.

Not that we're playing WFRP at the moment, campaigns do include nudity, sex and romance if that's what you're asking.

It's just that we don't put too much emphasis on it, like going into great detail in how the "lovemaking" (or "rutting like a couple of pigs" depending on what type of character is doing it) proceeds.

Mainly because it doesn't have that much impact on the characters. It's just one of those mundane things that all people are more or less subjected to during their lives. Letting it happen during a campaign would be reasonable and add to realism, but not something that really deserves much focus.

I mean, If you're playing in a setting where there's Orcs and Dragons, why would anyone want to put focus on something so mundane as love and intercourse?

Hehe, I must come off as extremely disillusioned right now.

It tends not to come up in my games, unless it makes sense from the plot. I certainly wouldn't focus on it. Beyond, y'know, calling for a Toughness or Agility Test.

phobiandarkmoon said:

I'd say Fellowship would be rather important as well

I try to avoid it altogether, unless mentioned in an off hand way, because one of my players always plays female characters who are decadent, flirtatious and obsessed with dresses and pretty clothes.

Yeah... AWKWARD. Especially when he goes on about how his character is trying to start a family and stuff.

Necrozius said:

Quick! An Orc!!

(it's the only way to deal with it )

Actually I deal with romance a lot and love as well.

As a writer, one thing I can suggest and do suggest and everyone should hear me out on 1000% is people, in games, have a tendency to create PC'S in a bubble. They have no connections, no real friends or family, etc. Yet in real life, people do have things like this that effect them in so many ways. Especially in a period of time where arranged marriages and the like would come up (and do as they are a function of society). I view these bubble-characters, like action figures you have to take out of the shrink-wrap, to sort of be a pitfall that leads to certain tropes in games and removes a lot of drama, story options, stakes, and all the other great fundamentals of storytelling. A village being attacked by Orcs and we are valiant (or maybe not so valiant) people caught in the middle becomes a hell of a lot more insteresting if the character's parents, their brother, hell their wife and children are actually part of the village. It changes a fight from kill orcs to save family and kill orcs. The stakes raise, the stories become more interesting and the NPC survival, health, and what the players can get out of the experience become great in game rewards (or penalties if ill-fortune befalls them). It's what makes Spider Man so interesting is not only is a super-hero, but we have to watch him juggle mundane life as well. Of course Spider Man works in some stories, others don't. Like if you're going to go dungeon crawling, it would not be my first choice.

However, if you want someone to get possessed by a demon, why not a friend or loved one. A seven year old son as an agent of The Lord of Change would be very dynamic and interesting more so than guy you don't know is possessed, so whack, whack, whack. I don't know it makes the entire story more dynamic. Even if it's simply a PC has an old war buddy maybe they could become a traveling companion to the party - though not some God-Hammer, because that would overshadow the player's enjoyment. Also, these PC oriented NPC'S add more flavor to the towns, situations and places to go. Going home to where the family is and seeing your old friends can really spice up an otherwise typical bar scene. Additionally, friends and family resources also become a large factor that help as well. If you're a dock hand, probably your parents were or your friends are. Now, when trying to escape they have someone who can help them as they race to the boats, someone the PC'S rely on and how they treat him can change that relationship, change the face of the game. How they get used, what they actually do in-game is largely up to the GM (trust me on this, the possibilities are endless), but the PC, how they create them can give a great deal of guidance (my father is the king is very different than my father makes meat pies out of people).

This can also be applied to lovers as well. Romantic relationships are important as most people pursue them (or at least would like to be). It doesn't have to become the overshadowing element of the story but having crushes, attractions, relationships that form then fall apart or vice-versa adds a great deal of elements to the story that can really shape an entire game with tons and tons of flavor crystals. The tension of kill the king who is not necessarily good becomes more dynamic if on the other end the character's wife is the king's daughter. That way, not only do you have the immediate conflict, the conflict of how people will react to it, but how does his wife react to it as well.

Sex really isn't necessary and actually detracts in most stories rather than make it better. Sure, if it reveals part of a character - like the priest sleeping with gypsy women - it adds flavor to his moral compass, when a priest needs to look at his own moral compass as people turn to him for that. To me, I'm very old hollywood about it, a kiss, implication (like laying down on a bed) then cut away. Unless this is Warhammer Fantasy Hentai Roleplay or you're dealing a lot with Slaneesh, the sex angle is not one that really needs to be explored. The worst game I ever heard about was some necromancer (NPC) made all the characters to prove their loyalty have sex with an undead on the island. Hearing stories like that is exactly why you don't actually want to work at a gaming store...because you have to HEAR stories like that!

If that was to adultist for the boards or I offend anyone, I'm sorry, just wanted to highlight my point of why Sex is something best left out. Honestly, sex has no conflict to it once it starts, the conflict (of getting it) is resolved. Unless direct conflict happens during sex (as it does in Hentai) then it is really not a necessary event at all. Even in stories where a dude is cheating on his wife all the time we still don't need to see it, we just need to know it happened (and even then, probably not necessary, because we don't watch people go to bathrooms in movies even though we sure do watch them eat a lot. Sure Hollywood likes to make it appear it is the ultimate expression of love, when, for many people, that is not the case. So the meaning is lost.

I highly recommend, if you guys don't do it already, when you sit down to generate this time, have the players take their character's out of the bubble. Make them less like action figures and more like people. I'll think you'll see a greater dynamic that the GM can tell and an improved response from the players. It raises the stakes. If anyone wants help with that, I'll post up my ten character questions (mostly stolen from white-wolf), rewritten for direct fantasy interaction. They are designed to give the character's more depth, more things for the GM to use, and more stories for the GM'S to create from the player's back stories alone.

If you haven't noticed, I'm a narrativist gamer.

Err... What's that?

...not on the gaming table, I just cleaned it.

commoner said:

My my, what a fantastically twisted imagination that GM seem to have. I would be delighted to play in a campaign like that. Not because I have necrophiliac fantasies or anything but because I just love it when the GM can really let him or herself loose and actually incorporate some seriously twisted events in a horror scenario (i.e other than the usual "excessive blood and gore" stuff that has been done to death many times over).

The thing you describe was genuinely disgusting and my jaw would have surely dropped as a player if an NPC made that proposal.

You can't ever go wrong with creativity, even when that creativity is used for the twisted and the macabre.

commoner said:

I have to agree with you there. It have to be a part of the story otherwise Sex would have no importance at all. What I try to say, it should feel like a part of the story rather than a add-on (is that the right expression?). Much like movies, it has to tell a story. In my case with the Sigmar priest I did it to tell a story, we began the story AFTER the sex-scene, and went right away to focus on the scenario.

The story you told was...well gross but not offendig to me. But it serves a clear example of how NOT to implement sex in a mature setting. But again some liked the idea. But I wouldn`t reccomended springing that modul on a group of new players, that you didn`t know very well.

Romance & love on the other hand, are what fuels people, and why not player characters of a make-belive world too? It can make for great roleplaying opportunities and moments as you mentioned Commoner.

It can add a new dimension to your roleplaying games, or it might not suit your and your friends tastes at all. Know your players, that`s all I can say when dealing with such theme.

Mal Reynolds said:

BINGO.

It's a pretty fundamental concept: some people aren't comfortable with hearing their friends essentially narrate telephone sex at the gaming table.

Necronomicus said:

Laughing Out Loud. I have seen these guys before but they still cracks me up. This is the example how how you won`t end up like. Let it be a warning to what too much roleplaying can led to.

Disease: Anti-social roleplayer

symptoms, earlier: decrease of members in your roleplaying group, but you still persist in playing with or without other players. A habit of dressing like your favourite player character, and call it LARP, even though you`re alone in your house or going to the school. an unhealthy obsession with dice, often called icosahedromania (after the common d20) or more rarer the icosahedrophobia, fear of the dice.

symptoms, later: advanced elitiest thinking, not wanting to accept other new players due to lack of immagination bonds. Calling in sick explaining that you are a druid who recently lost his familiar and the level drain is unberable, and that druidic faith is a real religion. Borderline symptoms where you actually believe you bend reality with your imagination. a sharp decrease in hygenicy, combinded with poor reality perceptions. Increased ability to understand even the most complex rpg rules, and a want to apply them to real life situations including the use of dice.

suggested treatment: exessive to moderate dosages of real-life exposure. Or get a girlfriend

Mal Reynolds said:

Sorry but getting a girlfriend doesn't really remedy the roleplaying "disease" at all.

Or rather, if you're proud of who you are and don't feel unecessary shame of your hobbies then a girlfriend isn't likely to make you quit playing. I know some roleplayers have quit as soon as a girl is brought into the picture (some girls even act as a Yoko Ono towards "The Beatles" that is the gaming group), but those players tend to consider their RPG hobby as a dirty little secret and something that you don't want to mention about yourself in casual conversation.

Granted these feelings can be brought about due to growing up in a pretty intolerant society, especially if they play at a rather sensitive age (mainly their teens).

But once grown up or you've acquired a serious dosage of confidence, you tend not to be very afraid of outside judgement anymore. And you wouldn't have any difficulties telling even a potential girlfriend that you like to dork it out playing RPG's with your friends from time to time, because if she were to actually see that harmless hobby as an actual problem in a relationship, then you would have the confidence and self-respect to dump her before a relationship has even started.

Still, any activity is only as shameful as you make it out to be. If you assume that people are going to judge you badly and thus try to hide your hobbies, then the more appalled other people will be the moment they find out. After all, most people don't know much about RPG's, and if they see an actual roleplayer act or feel ashamed of his/her hobby, then they are going to assume that it is something to be ashamed about. It's one of those things you can simply chalk up to human psychology I guess.

However, if you're shameless about your hobbies, only the prejudiced bigots are going to object. And based on my own experience, roleplayers tend to consist of a large majority of pretty intelligent people, who have no difficulties tackling bigotry.

So, in the case of a shameless and intelligent roleplayer, a girlfriend really wouldn't cure him. In fact, even if he's never actually had a girlfriend before, he'd become more adamant about his hobby, because then he'd see that apparently roleplayers also get girls, and might even become even more smug than before.

Necrozius said:

That's why I abstract it to silly dicerolls. Everyone gets the hint what the player is doing. The dice add an element of unpredictability and sometimes comedy or indeed feels you are awesome, without the need to narrate the details, exept maybe to say "Well Done" or "It was over before it started....."

Varnias Tybalt said:

In general I agree with you, Varnias, but I think Mal was referring to that video which showed two rather unhealthy examples who DO need a cure :-)

Whlie video was funny in a "The Office" kind of way (not really my style of humour to be honest, just a bit too awkward and embarrassing), I'm afraid of what people would think who don't know anything about roleplaying and saw that video. They'd probably laugh and go "ewww" and think that that's what all roleplayers are like. Which would be terrible.

Ludlov Thadwin of Sevenpiecks said:

If people were to think that, then honestly I'd have a good laugh at them.

Picture the following example:

Person not familiar with RPG's : -"So what are your hobbies?"

Me : -" Gee, I have a whole lot of hobbies. A lot of them are gaming related, and the others deal much with artistic pursuits and styduing and discussing many human related topics like politics, philosophy. I also dabble a little in scientific areas regarding technology, physics and chemistry. Some of these hobbies I do alone, and others are best done with a few of my friends. Roleplaying games for example is a really fun and social hobby for me and for them, and it sure beats the hell out just getting together and then sit at the couch drinking beer and watching the tv and such."

Person not familiar with RPG's : -" What!?!? You play RPG's like Dungeouns and Dragons and nerd stuff like that? Don't you have a life? You must be one of those nerds who like camp out in their mom's basement and pretend they're orcs or elves and play that Lord of the Rings ****, and then go out dressed in costumes thinking you're a vampire or some ****** stuff like that, haha!"

Me : -" No, not quite like that. I am a real nerd that's for sure and the proudest nerd in the world I might add. But tell me , where did you acquire such specific 'insight' into how roleplayers really are as people? Have you played any yourself?"

Person not familiar with RPG's : -"F*ck no! I'd never do geeky stuff like that. I just saw this video of two nerds on google, and I went like "ewww! Those guys don't have a life."

Me : -"So what you're saying is that not only do you completely lack any real experience with the hobby im refering to, but you've based your entire view of it and the people who are interested in it on some video you saw on google!?"

Person not familiar with RPG's : -"uh..."

Me : *walks away laughing*

To be honest, I have sort of had a similar conversation like this in real life, although the words used weren't exactly the same even if the results were. The lesson here is don't waste your time with prejudiced people, they're really not worth the effort. After all, there's nearly 7 billion people on this planet and life's too short to make sure that everyone of them knows who you are and what you are like. There's no reason to even bother with morons who already think they haveyou completely figured out. They are after all only a small group among nearly 7 billion people.

So I wouldn't worry too much what people think. Unless they actually bother to ask you and to learn something that they haven't really tried out themselves, then it won't really hurt you if you just let them think whatever the hell they like.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Well said Varnias.

In my experiences, most people tend to respond more positively when I explain that RPGs are sort of like improv classes or Murder Mystery Dinner parties.

But yeah, I'm proud to be a geek (I'm not smart enough to be a nerd).

Well, Varnias, the conversation you described certainly made me laugh out loud, so thank you for that :-)

I'm lucky enough never to have had that experience myself. Mostly when I tell people about my roleplaying hobby, they tend to be curious. But I also know there is a certain stereotype around that depicts roleplayers exactly like these guys and I'd like to see more stuff/people out there that prove that most RPG fans are mentally healthy, sociable, level-headed people.