im about to get the basic books to paly but i dont no much about the creation of characters and my friend was wondering are there space marines and can u pick like a chapter for them

such as

space wolves

or dark angels things like that

No space marines, you play normal humans.

it is believed that eventually there will be another system called Deathwatch coming out sometime in the future.

But as far as the astartes are concerned...Rogue trader might be a better bet if you have to do it now.

Nope. No Space Marines, and good riddance.

They are more suited to be NPC's after all...

Varnias Tybalt said:

That would be a personal opinion Varnias. I disagree.

im just waiting for Deathwatch to decide lol

Peacekeeper_b said:

Yup. It is a personal opinion. And it probably contrasts a lot with a large majority of WH40K fans, but im sticking by it.

I like the Space Marines as the cool and aloof and almost inhuman individuals they are. Having a human trying to portray them would just ruin everything that I like about them.

It would sort of be like if they made a movie about Cthulhu, but instead of being the silent and alien monstrosity that he is, they'd give him a booming and cheesy voice that speaks english with the protagonists of the movie. It would "humanize" him too much and take away all that which is mysterious and cool about him.

I say, let the coolness and mystery remain. Let human players witness all the cool things in the world of 40K from the perspective of normal humans, instead of brainwashed and surgically enhanced superhumans. Human players just won't have what it takes to portray these supermen well enough, and it will kill the mood for everyone involved.

I don't want to know how or why or what a Space Marine thinks about anything. I want to keep wondering.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Ineresting - I have a similar thing for the Adeptus Mechanicus in that I use them as strange and just "different" to humans but allow Space Marines. Thus far it has worked fine - but I am running a high level campaign. The players are good and wary when dealing the Cult of Mars - but then they are also the same with each other..............

I see no reason why the right player can't play Astartes well (or AM for that matter, its no different to playing aliens or indeed fantasy races well) but I agree that sometimes the GM wants to have certain elements to craft/maintina a theme himself. .................

Da Boss said:

Well, the Techpriests I can get, because all of them start out human at least. The only thing that disappears later on tend to be their emotions, and it's not that hard to play a character without emotion.

I see no reason why the right player can't play Astartes well (or AM for that matter, its no different to playing aliens or indeed fantasy races well) but I agree that sometimes the GM wants to have certain elements to craft/maintina a theme himself. .................

Hehe, im sorry but that particular argument won't have much effect on me. Mainly because im not to keen on letting players play aliens or fantasy races either, for the exact same reasons as with the astartes.

Thoug I've been sick of the fantasy genre for years now and won't be likely to turn back to it for quite some time, if I do that however, then the usual options of playing elves or dwarves will not be permitted in my campaign. The players have to "keep it human". Elves and dwarves are reserved as NPC's only.

^^^ The changer of ways strikes again. ^^^

Inexplicably odd forum formatting. Or perhaps the matrix realigning after some massive alteration. Who can rightly say?

At any rate, SM and AM are still human despite everything. I have thus far managed to not have to contend with players who want to play a SM. What I'm really hoping to find is someone who is interested in playing an AM who is focused on the Biologis path of things. Too many people seem to forget that there are AM who believe that genetically strengthened flesh is just as good as iron and steel.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Varnias Tybalt said:

Space Marines also start off as human.

Our GM was able to make his voice sound impossibly deep and booming when he spoke as Brother-Sergeant Agamorr in Shades on Twilight. I think a person could permanently hurt their vocal cords trying to do that on a regular basis. ;-)

Ophilia Midkiff said:

Well a lot of death metal, black metal and grindcore singers do "death grunting" in their songs without suffering too much damage to their vocal chords. While it is one of those talents that you either have or you don't (like a singing voice), it requires some skill in order to keep your vocal cords healthy.

The trick is to not use your throat but rather your gut to produce the depth of the voice.

Of course there are bands where the singers go for using their throat to a damaging degree. The singer Corey Taylor of Slipknot has been known to injure his vocal chords because of this, since many of their songs don't always include the standard death grunts but also large amounts of shouting and screaming too. (they still kick ass though, and if Taylor still choose to do what he does despite injury, then talk about sacrificing yourself for your art)

Peacekeeper_b said:

Space Marines, when released in a book for the table top wargame in the 1980's with the name Rogue Trader, were all human. They were humans wearing power armour. They were the RTB01 box of plastic minis from Citadel and were of the Mk VI armour type. During the late 1980's and early 1990's GW upped the fluff of Space marines to have them surgically enhanced. Where boys of 11 years old were subjected to 17 invasive medical procedures over a series of 10 to 15 years depending on how well the boys bode reacted. The last of which being 'the black carapace' that allowed the power armour to be interfaced with the biological body. Boys over the age of 18 were classed as being too old for the procedures if the implants and were not chosen to be on the programme. You could find on old copy of Compendium or a White Dwarf from around this time.

I guess it depends on the chapter of space marines for which the zygote is due to join too. The Dark Angels still trawl for boys in their great 'sky chariots' and have the boys compete against each other to which will become one of the great sky warriors.
Other chapters may have 'birth mothers' there the invasive medical procedures occur in the womb before birth. Making the foetus genetically enhanced.

Pre-Heresy chapters probably have a different programme than successor founding’s.
I guess it's down to each individual GM and their perception of the gritty 40K universe as to how they 'grow' their own marines.
My personal preference is to have the marines have a taste of 'normal' human life before undergoing the procedure. This enables them to have distant repressed memories surface under times of stress.
As for including them in the game as PCs? I personally think that they are way too powerful. They need to be given immense weaknesses to counter their inherent strength. Like having to wander around with out their power armour as it would raise too much suspicion for an inquisitor to be padding about with a whacking great big 8 foot tall target. Still immensely strong, the PC is made to continually miss the comfort that MKVII armour affords, along with his battle brothers. (I like to isolate my marines when on assignment with inquisitors). They are fully trained in battle drill day and night back in their chapter houses with all manner of the finest of weapons... but in the back water planets the 'finest weapons' are much below the usual construction. A marines fist being almost too big to hold a laspistol... (All my own personal thoughts on marines in games.)

(oh, and I'm British, so programme ends with -me and armour has a 'u' )

Like having to wander around with out their power armour as it would raise too much suspicion for an inquisitor to be padding about with a whacking great big 8 foot tall target.

Er... they're still 8 foot tall without their armour due to some of the genetic enhancements. There's no mistaking a Space Marine for anything other than a Mutant, an Ogryn (both unlikely considering their otherwise inhuman appearance) or a Space Marine.

Yep. But without all that lovely shiny armour as a big give away.

I'm sure on some planets that humans vary in height. That a suprisingly large human can exist. Seen the Russian heavy weight champions in boxing? They over 7 feet tall... Then you've got basketball players, no idea how tall these chaps are. They may not be as wide.

I agree that mankind will still be in the main distribution curve where 90% of the male population are between 5'7" and 6'2" (or whatever the distribution curve for height is at the moment - I don't actually know).

It's a big and diverse universe afterall.

Also - In the Inquisitor novels by Ian Watson (Draco, Harlequin and Deamon Child) Imperial Fist Space Marine Captain Lex wanders around without armour on without raising huge amounts of suspicion. (Although it is 10 years ago since I read these novels).

Duran Elderbar said:

But in the Horus Heresy novels everyone is able to distinguish an astartes from a normal human being even when they're not wearing armour. Not only because they are like three heads taller than the talest normal man in the room, but they show clear signs of gigantism. Oh and their ribcage is a fused shield of bone rather than being many interlocking individual bones. Then there's the fact that their saliva is highly corrosive too, so in case anyone of them happen to drool the droplets would hit the floor and go: *pfffffst*

I'm right in thinking that the Hourus Heresy novels are set during the Horus Heresy? Before M41? And that most of the non-space marine characters in the book know that the huge hulking people are marines because that's what they've been told. I read the HH series through as far as Battle for The Abyss (well, half way through the book) and then stoped because the writing style of the book did not agree with me. I will finish it eventially. If I recall (I may be wrong) there are not many instances were marines are going around unarmoured away from their battle barges. I recon if you ran into a hulking brute on board a space marine ship the chances are, it's gonna be a marine.

I wonder how 'average' people in the hive cities in M41 would 'know' what a space marine is? I mean, they would surely see that this chap was a hulking mass of muscle I agree. Just depends on how you wish to interpret NPC interaction with a marine without their armour on.

To enlightended members of the Inquisition indeed they may recognise a de-armoured (and unclotherd/de-robed) marine. Some members of the inquisition may not know that marines exist. Although I generally visualise there there is no super TV network or news broardcasts telling citizens what's going on. The closest they get to is propaganda fed to the masses by preachers al-la 1984.

It could be that a certian world has had plenty of experience of marines without armour on.

Back to the original post though. If you want to have Space Marines and confident that they can be played appropriatly then go ahead. If you don't want marines then don't. In my oppinion there are not that many marines around anyway. Not compared to the number of Imperial Worlds anyway.

codybhowell said:

To answer your question, no. Dark Heresy deals specifically with the Inquisition and its normal human operatives (the Acolytes), and these acolytes come from all sorts of different backgrounds and professions. Examples from my own group include:

-the Noble Scum (of Rogue Trader stock. Has a silver tongue of epic proportions)

-the Forge World Tech Priest (obsessed with finding a Rad Cleanser, among other things. Recently lost an arm and a leg, literally, while trying to rescue some parts for a Rad Cleanser)

-the Feral World Psyker (has extensive tattoos, including in his mouth and on his tongue. Apparently, they're wards that came with his Sanctioning and prevents him from naming the Ruinous Powers. Goes to exceptional lengths to ensure that he does not get possessed by some warp critter)

While the Inquisition does have Space Marines of one form or another in service with them (specifically the Grey Knights, chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus and the Deathwatch, chamber militant of the Ordo Xenos), they're not available as player-characters. Members of the Adepta Sororitas may be player-characters, but only if the GM allows it; the Sisters, of course, are normal human women, if particularly fanatical ones (it's a lot harder to role-play a zealot than you might think). Anyway, given the sort of undercover/investigative work that Acolytes typically do, I daresay a Space Marine would be a poor choice as they would stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Brother Praetus said:

Heh, heh ... I'm right there with you, brother. I'm playing one right now in airbornexo's play-by-post game, and will likely play one similar in my next pen and paper game. It's fun being a borderline Heretek.